Anyone else think that Admiral Traest Kre'Fey was REALLY poorly written in "Destiny's Way"?

...I just CANNOT accept that this character is the same one we saw in the early going of the NJO (believe he showed up in Stackpole's duology)..

In "Dark Tide", he seemed to be one of the few respectable Bothans.. Honourable.. Reserved.. Cunning...

Fastforward to DW..And we're lookin' at a COMPLETELY different character..

Okay, fine, the Bothans have basically declared a that they're going to exterminate the Vong...

I understand that Kre'fey WOULD stay loyal to his race...He would devote himself to destroying the Vong..

He WOULD NOT, however, be the short-sighted, Machoistic Baffoon given to us in DW!

I mean, C'mon! Swinging his fists in the air?

Giving pathetic speeches that are basically "we will kill them until they die from it!"?

PLEASE!!

Am i crazy?

 

I agree completely that he changed, I to thought of him as an able minded honourable commander...but in DW I actually liked him, and found his character amusing in the seriousnes of the space battle around epaq(sp) 9.

 

actually, i think he was one of the few characters written quite well in DW.

 

I accept that with so many different writers that certain charachters will be written inconsistantly but the Kre'Fey in DW bore no resemblance to the Kre'Fey of earlier novels. If authors are going to use existing charachters they should show some respect for the author who created that charachter by develpoing them in a sensible way, not changing everything about them.

 

Kre'fey in the X-wing books and early NJO != Kre'fey in the late NJO (DW)

 

I think your thinking of Laryn Kre'fey from the early x-wing books, the two are different.

 

When I read DW, I did notice that Kre'fey was somewhat different than the way I remembered him...

But then again, how many years did take place between Dark Tide and Destiny's way? Two, three? The events in DT was more or less the beginning of the Vong War, and the threat wasn't yet as clear to everyone as it is in Destiny's Way... Kre'Fey must've had his share of loss during the months that he has been fighting, which could've changed his views of the galaxy.

What do they call it again? Character Development or something like that? :/

 

Out of character? The entire Bothan race has gone wacko, so he's very IN character

 

What do they call it again? Character Development or something like that?

I don't have a problem with charachter development as long as it's credible. Changing everything about a charachter is not credible.

Out of character? The entire Bothan race has gone wacko, so he's very IN character

An entire race going wacko is a pretty plot line that was basicaly used to justify Kre'Fey's ridiculious transformation.

 

I think that the change in Krefey's character was meant to dismiss the Bothans as a political force in the NJO for now - the authors don't want to be incorporating their backstabbing ways into the series again.

So, a change has come over the Bothan race, in the form of a vengeance crusade. But would it not be possible that the attitude Krefey shows is only a temporary change?

Like the Vulcans on Star Trek who let go of their emotional restraint once every 7 years (when they mate), the Bothans have temporarily removed their political self-restrains, in order to be more efficient.
It makes sense that their society would have a mechanism for this when they are threatened as a group.

 

Time passed, and sure the bothans went nuts - but to turn into someone completely new...?

But then a lot of the people in DW were way out of character anyway - military leaders it seems...

Pellaeon was nothing like before - he came across as a senile nazi, Kre'fey seemed like a hyperactive child, Farlander just seemed to be a name plucked out of a hat, and Tsavong Lah.... well, you know about him.

Maybe this was all to make Ackbar look super clever? I dunno.

I'm just glad Wedge and Bel Iblis managed to stay out of it!

 

I don't have a problem with charachter development as long as it's credible. Changing everything about a charachter is not credible.

Just curious, but in this case, do you also find the cheery, helpful Anakin Skywalker's in EP1 developing to the evil Darth Vader not credible?

 

Farlander was pretty much a name picked out of a hat.

 

An entire race going wacko is a pretty plot line that was basicaly used to justify Kre'Fey's ridiculious transformation.

No offense, but RUBBISH!

You're saying WJW decided he couldnt write Kre'Fey, so made that up?

WHY WOULD HE USE HIM THEN?


The plot is that the Bothans CULTURE makes them this way. EVERY Bothan becomes this focussed, intense.

 

I like very much Kre'fey's character. He's not on of the "old" generation of Bothans, with their backstabbing political ways, but of a new generation, less concerned about political power. He despises politics when it gets in the way of doing the right thing. He is also a Jedi supporter, unlike the Squid head and Rodan.

By the way, how do you pronounce Kre'fey? K-ree-fie or K-ree-fay? Or are their other pronounciations out there?

Horn out

 

I see it as cray-fay or cree-fay. Cant decide

 

I usually say Kree.

 

I'd always assumed it was Kre-fay...but I have this unusual ability to look at woods without reading them properly. I register that word as something different and thats how I pronounce it regardless. Thus for a long time coruscant was coscant...and so on...

 

I pronounce it "Kruh-fay".

As for the character change, it's because the Bothans declared ar'krai. Kre'fey's just trying to get into the mood. And being able to mass murder the enemy seems to excite the Bothans.

 

I think everything in Destiny's Way was poorly written.

 

No, he was written fine.

 

''Hammer them! Hammer them!'' Admiral Kre'fey shouting this like a maniac during the battle, swinging fists, bouncing on his heels with uncontained excitement

It must be quite scene to see! Along with Tsavong Lah's antics, it made me laugh real hard while reading DW

 

Just curious, but in this case, do you also find the cheery, helpful Anakin Skywalker's in EP1 developing to the evil Darth Vader not credible?

At least you got hints of darkness in the otherwise cheery Anakin, back in Episode I (watch the look that Anakin shoots Mace when he's told he's not going to be trained!)

You've NEVER seen this side of Traest Kre'fey (i pronounce it Kruh-fay, by the way) even hinted at before now...

EVERY Bothan becomes this focussed, intense.

Maybe it's just because i found the ' intense, inspiring speeches' that Traest was giving to his crew to be VERY very poorly written (There is NO way that people would rally to "We're going to SMASH the Vong! We're going to SMASH them every day! We're going to smash them until there ARE NO MORE YUUZHAN VONG!!".. That just sounds silly.. It's not inspiring in the least), but i found his behaviour neither focused nOR intense..

Okay, so declaring ar'krai allows you to remove moral responsibility from the picture.. Great..I don't think it explains the apparent tunnel-vision that Kre'fey is now suffering from..That's causing him to look like an idiot..

Swinging his fists over top of Jacen's head, barely missing him? That's comic-relief, not the behaviour of a Grand Admiral of the New Republic Fleet..

I mean, how could the people 'in charge' allow a fanatic to remain in command?



The New Republic aren't the ones who've declared ar'krai on the Vong (well, not most of it's elements, anyways)...The Bothans fanatacism COULD come into conflict with the interests of the New Republic, couldn't it?


I dunno, i guess i rack this one up there with "Jaina Solo being treated like a goddess" as things that a military just would NEVER allow..

And i still think that the Traest from the earlier book would never do the stuff that was going on in DW..

I could see him vowing to destroy the Vong, but NOT jumping up and down whilst swinging his fists..

He's much more reserved...

 

(There is NO way that people would rally to "We're going to SMASH the Vong! We're going to SMASH them every day! We're going to smash them until there ARE NO MORE YUUZHAN VONG!!".. That just sounds silly.. It's not inspiring in the least)

I disagree. Churchills most famous speech involved "we shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them...", and that motivated the British. Now if youre standing in front of people who have lost everything, Id say thatd be damn inspiring



Okay, so declaring ar'krai allows you to remove moral responsibility from the picture.. Great..I don't think it explains the apparent tunnel-vision that Kre'fey is now suffering from..That's causing him to look like an idiot..

Yep



The New Republic aren't the ones who've declared ar'krai on the Vong (well, not most of it's elements, anyways)...The Bothans fanatacism COULD come into conflict with the interests of the New Republic, couldn't it?

Yep, hope so



I dunno, i guess i rack this one up there with "Jaina Solo being treated like a goddess" as things that a military just would NEVER allow..

Never allow when you just lost you inpenetrable fortress has been lost?


In WW2, Germany tried to have troopers jump from a plane without chutes. Why? Because anything to win the war. What do the NR have to lose? THe godess ploy WORKED! In DJ, it WORKED! What clever commander would scrap a winning strategy. The answer is, one that isnt really clever.

I mean, this is the Wedge that flew the Millenium Falsehood! To make the enemy thing someone was there who isnt. This is the same, but this is psychological warfare, one of the greatest weapons you can wield.

 

There is NO way that people would rally to "We're going to SMASH the Vong! We're going to SMASH them every day! We're going to smash them until there ARE NO MORE YUUZHAN VONG!!".. That just sounds silly.. It's not inspiring in the least

Well to me that sounds a lot like General Patton. Granted the opening speech in Patton was fictional per se, but the quotes that were used he did say. We're not just going to shoot the bastard. We are going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun bastards by the bushel.....The Nazi's are the enemy. Wade into them. Spill their blood. Shoot them in the belly. When you put your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment before was your best friends face, you'll know what to do. Now there's another thing I want you to remember. I don't want to get any messages that your holding onto anything, we let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy! We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're going to kick him in the ass. We are going to hold onto him all the time and we are going to go through him like crap through a goose!

That's roughly how an element of the opening speech in Patton went.