Anyone else think "The Duel" was going to be better?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by SecondBest, May 25, 2005.

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  1. Tyrantus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 3
    I loved it. I've waited years for this after all, ever since reading my Empire scrapbook and learning about Anakin's lava ordeal. The only thing that I found different is I was expecting Anakin to fall in the lava, not fly down into the bay, while lava casually drifted up to him, setting him ablaze. That, and I thought Obi-Wan and Anakin may have some additional dialogue exchanges while fighting. Maybe a one last plea from Obi-Wan to stop this madness while Anakin counters back something to him.
  2. ObiWanCon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2004
    star 4
    I HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE DUEL I THINK IT IS SIMPLE THE BEST DUEL OF THE SAGA AND ONE OF THE BEST SWORD FIGHTS IN CIMENA HISTORY
  3. yellow_command535 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    no way! it was a great battle!
  4. YoungAngus Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2005
    star 5
    I loved it, The Dialouge was soooo great. The begining was great to, I love the shot were Obi Wan ignites his lightsbaer his expresion gives me chills. Then Anakin does the huge backflip and it kicks off it was amazing. Ive only seen it twice When I get the DVD im going to watch it over and over. But I must say I liked Jimmy Falons portryal on the MTV movie awards that duel was better.
  5. Slime_bucket Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    only thing... that is missing is that obi-wan did not shove his lightsaber up anakin's butt...
  6. Antrojedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 1
    It was a great duel but I think it would have worked better if they didn't kept intercutting it with the Yoda/Sidious duel.
  7. YellowSaberMaster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 1
    Okay, not having posted for a few months now, and only having read the first page of the topic before posting, I have to say that the duel was THE BEST LIGHTSABER DUEL, EVER. There are SO many levels to this... again, I only read the first page of posts so if I reiterate anyone's ideas here please forgive.

    * Anakin has always wondered (not KNOWN FOR SURE) who the better duelist is... he must have looked forward to facing his master for a long time.

    * The precision with which they fight is like watching two chess grandmasters throwing out move after move to see what the other will do to counter. YES, in the back of my head I kept saying, 'you know, they choreographed this' but letting go of reality and just enjoying it for what it is, really felt good. To help those who can't grasp this, remember they actively use the force to guide them as they fight so as not to accidentally cut themselves up by accident.
    (SPEAKING OF WHICH, does anyone know what caused the scar on the back of Anakin's head? Was it lava or did he knick himself when Obi-Wan cut him down?)

    * THIS IS WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT, what I've waited for since I was 10 years old. Not to trivialize what's going on in the world around us (especially after days like today), speaking of the duel I said aloud to a few friends of mine "You know, the world can end now, at least I got to see the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader." [Total Fanboy Statement] Kind of like Warren Zevon, shortly before he died, just hoping he'd get to see the newest James Bond movie before he passed, which I believe he did.

    * Remember, Anakin is the better fighter, but he learned everything from Obi-Wan, right? Obi was the better strategist and that put him over the edge... and it's not like he didn't warn Anakin.
  8. darth-amedda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2003
    star 4
    Honestly it was better than I had expected. I had naver been extremely excited about Anakin-Obi duel until I finally saw ROTS. And - to my surprise - it appeared to be simply the best in whole saga. I really felt thrilled.
  9. DarthYoDu Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Perhaps I didn't think the duel was going to better but more realistic or consistent. It seems to me Obi-Wan should have been up a creek without a paddle with a hole in the boat and piranha in the water against Anakin. Anakin had the fastest human reflexes in the Galaxy by virtue of his pod racing days, could glide through the insane traffic on Coruscant using the force and in EPIII polished off Count Dooku a top five force user in the Galaxcy. The same Dooku who held his own against Yoda and did what he pleased with Obi-Wan.

    Anakin seemed to dominate the duel but not by much. And how could Obi-Wan match Anakin in a pure force push duel? It doesn't seem to add up since the force is what allowed Anakin to pod race, free fall through Coruscant as well as mop up Dooku things Obi-Wan wouldn't dream of doing. Please don't tell me Obi-Wan knows Anakin's style the whole world knows Shaq's style just nobody can stop it.

    Finally, the high groud is a hard one for me to take. In the TPM Obi-Wan accomplished the same feat with his finger tips at a 90 degree angle (the highest ground possible) versus a superior adversary but the most powerful force user ever attempted the same feat with his legs on a 45 degree angle versus a weaker opponent and lost 75% of his limbs.

    Overall good movie but Lucas should have worked a little harder to resolve inconsistencies.
  10. KennethMorgan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 2
    I have to agree with this, though I might get tagged for it. Yes, the Yoda/Sidious duel was a pretty spectacular sequence. But it just didn't have the same emotional power as the Kenobi/Anakin duel. I mean, in the latter, we have two former best friends battling it out to the death apparently in the depths of Hell. The other battle just doesn't measure up.
  11. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
  12. jedipadawanjoe14 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2005
    star 3
    well it was good...but i dont think i really liked the whole thing about the lava shields going down and then ani and obi wan jumping all over it and stuff....


    as for the yoda palps duel...i absoutly loved it....though i wish yoda would shoot some more pods around at sids
  13. brook_33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 4
    I didn't like that it mixed in with Yoda/Sidious. If it was all one sequence it would have been more powerful, because we're watching a dramatic duel, and then you see red guards flying, a frog leaping at a old guy, and then a frog climbing through a pipeline. It took away from the drama, imo.

    Anakin vs Obi-wan duel didn't live up to the hype, I believe. It was by far the best duel in Star Wars, but from everything we heard about I was expecting a little more.
  14. MasterP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    I didn't find any problem with the duel. It was pretty spectacular and the affects were amazing. It was much better than the OT lightsaber battles where the Jedi were moving like Grandparents. I liked the Mace vs. Sidious lightsaber battle better than Obi-Wan vs. Anakin though.
  15. Darth-sennin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 3
    This is a good question, but I think it has very little to do with power. It's true that Anakin's power is enormous and his potential is limitless but, Anakin simply uses the force, he manipulates it for his own ends. Obi-wan on the other hand, gives of himself to the force. He has more faith in the force than any other character, and because of this, the force acts through him. To put it simply, Obi-wan lets go of himself and allows the force to take over, and even the chosen one can not compete with the force.

    Militarily speaking, the high ground is one the most important advantages in ANY battle. It's value can not be underestimated, this is true even in man to man combat. As for the discrepency between the Maul duel, and the Anakin duel, it seems clear that Maul was foolish and arrogant. More importantly, Obi-wan invented the move. Anakin must know this. It's simply not wise to attempt an extremely dangerous move (which Obi-wan did only in desperation) on the man who invented it.

    However, I do agree, I was a little underwhelmed by the duel as a whole. Despite the logic behind the "high ground", it was not the most impressive way to end the duel. My four suggestions for how to make this duel better:

    1) Better footwork. Check out tigercranefist's posts on the PT duels for a detailed explanation, but the footwork in DOTF was brilliant. In THE DUEL, Obi-wan and Anakin were simply walking while swinging. It was as if their upper bodies and lower bodies were not connected. I also think that is why the moves were harder to see. When you use proper footwork, your swings take up more space and appear more pronounced. This is a real shame as the sword weilding itself was actually superior to anything else in the entire saga (watch it in slo-mo).

    2) Increase the sense of danger. Danger oozed all over DOTF, but this duel seemed to lack it. I didn't fear for Obi-wan, and I sure as hell didn't fear for Anakin. The only way to increase the tension would have been to build up Anakin (and to a much lesser extent, Obi-wan) prior to the duel. Mopping the floor with Dooku was a good start, but we needed to see the temple raid. Watching Anakin march through the jedi temple taking out multiple jedi with little effort would have really made us understand how powerful, and therefore dangerous, Anankin was. And while we're at it, Obi-wan and Anakin should have been seperated just before they ran into Dooku (perhaps chasing Grievous). Having Obi-wan get manhandled by Dooku, just so Anakin could face Dooku alone, does not set up "the battle of the heroes" very effectivly. Having Obi-wan do what he did against Grievous shows that he's skilled, but makes it ambiguous as to how good he really is. The way it is now, many were upset and confused as to why Anakin didn't "walk all over" Obi-wan.

    3) This one is simple, and has been said by many. Less or no intercutting. This is the moment we've been waiting for, cutting to other action almost always diludes that. That's usually the reason why intercutting is used in the climax of films, to break up the tension of a scene. This is a scene that can use all the tension it can get.

    4) Finally, the last move of the duel could have been done better, as many thought it was anti-climatic. My solution, while I love the fact that Obi-wan warns Anakin, would be to condense the time between Obi-wan
  16. KfistoRox Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2002
    star 2
    It would have been 10 times better w/o being edited to death. Sabers switching, scenes cut, and sequences out of order. The last saber lockup is backwards after switching angles. I looked forward to it so much and honestly didn't meet my expectations sadly. :(
  17. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4
    "The Duel" was good, It was one of the best duels in the saga, I just wish they made it longer.
  18. Richard-Drahcir Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    The duel was amazing and a delight to see. I'd have liked to see the whole thing in one go though as from what we see it wouldn't have been too hard to show the 2 moving through each room all the way to the end as everything seemed fairly easy to move through it could have been done that way.
    It was good to have Yoda fighting Sidious but that could have also been run through in 2 or 3 takes rather than switching continually between the 2 so that the focus would stay on each fight.
  19. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    darth sennin - good observations - i really liked the duel, though. anakin dominating throughout, and obiwan trying while always backing up still trying to salvage the man anakin was, despite yoda's order to destroy the sith - but reason and logic can't reach the now-dominated-by-the dark side-anakin. thanks for the high ground military explanation. it always felt like that was the intended explanation. nice to see it verified.
  20. snap-hiss Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 5
    My only complaint about the duel was the envrioment. It was too over the top IMO. I would have liked it to be more in dark hallways and on solid ground rather than swinging and surfing. It's about the story and dialogue, not amazing stunts.

    !snap
  21. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Thanks for the plug, man :)
    This is the thread: http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_trilogy/b10669/22456445/p1

    I won't write a novel this time, as I usually do when the screenfighting topic is brought to discussion, so I'll just sum up my views of this fight.

    Was I expecting an awsome duel? Yes. I thought that after AotC's bad duels that they would return to the TPM style of fighting; fast, intense, and with perfect form - all captured with beautiful longshots, and long takes. Boy, was I wrong! The choreography is similar to AotC, but with more creativity and diversity. That's definately a plus! The speed is amazing as well - another plus. But the choreo is still pretty ridiculous at times, and as mentiones above - the footwork is really lacking. Check my sig - the guy I'm quoting has worked on tons of movies, with tons of actors and choreographers. I had the privilege of recieving a stagefighting lesson from him, as well as interviewing him about screenfighting. The quote in my sig is one of the many things he said, and I agree 100% with it. The footwork is everything in a fight.
    Anyway, I can live with the choreography - most of it anyway. What I really don't like however, is the cinematography and the editing. The editing is way to fast and choppy, and the continuity is lacking between shots at several places. The cinematography - while there are some gorgeous shots - consists mostly of close ups that hardly shows the choreography at all. Makes me sad - what happened to the style of shooting and editing that they used in DotF? Oh well, done is done.
    I would love to see the cut footage from the fight though.

    All in all - did I like the scene? Yes, as a scene (well, several scenes) in a movie, I loved it! The emotion is just right, and a lot of the visuals are nice. But as a fightscene? No, I'm afraid not. I don't hate it, but I don't love it. It's ok, I can live with it (would kinda suck otherwise :p ). Could've been much better though!

    This didn't turn out too long now, did it? :D
  22. darth-amedda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2003
    star 4
    One thing seems a bit strange to me. There are quite many people here who tend to say that they were expecting to see this duel in one go, one long, continuous take, without intercuts to Yoda/Palp. OK, I can understand that sb likes it this way, but wouldn't it be against style of the whole series? As far as I remember there is not even one single duel in previous SW episodes made in this way. Lightsaber duels in ANH, ESB, ROTJ, TPM, AOTC - each of them has intercuts. So I guess GL this time only follows his usual way.
  23. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    I didn't have any problem with the intercutting. Makes for a nice change - also, as mentioned above - every episode has had paralell stories going on at the same time during the duels.
  24. Darth_Infernous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    I thought the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan was amazing, everything I hoped it would be, and the ending when Obi-Wan left Anakin to die, well it was just heart wrenching.
    I have to say the duel between the Emperor and Yoda was rather more disappointing due to the amount of CG used in it, however the music to that sequence was superb. Really evil.
  25. Philip023 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2002
    star 3
    Hmm..I disagree Darth Infernous. I thought the Yoda Sidious duel was much more dramatic than the obiwan/anakin duel. I think in part though, I think I was surprised that Yoda would make one last ditch effort to end things in a confrontation with Sidious.

    Tiger Crane Fist brings up several good points - ones in which I never would have considered. Footwork. In TPM the dueling was almost artful - with wide shots of all three combatants moving. A particularly great shot is right after Maul kicks obi-wan and its just qui-gon and maul with obi-wan jumping in. That scene is brilliant - with obi-wan and qui-gon moving in unison against Maul - the way a master and his padawan should move.

    The Duel in ROTS, while spectacular, cuts away at some critical points and rejoins at even more critical spots (namely Anakin choking obi-wan. How did obi-wan manage to knock Anakin's saber away? How did Anakin close in on Obi-wan to choke him?!)

    I guess the competing duels are measured by importance too. Granted the focus on the trilogy is Anakin. But Yoda was soooo close to ending it. What makes that duel much better was that the entire galaxy was at stake. Had Yoda been victorious, it wouldn't have mattered what was happening on Mustafar.

    But I agree, the anakin/obi duel was just a little over the top as Anakin's moves are reduced to senseless slashing once the go outside.
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