Anyone else think this is a ripoff?

This was posted up on Decipher yesterday under the heading "Reflections Wrapper Redemption Program."


Decipher is adding even more value to the already value-packed Reflections product for Star Wars? CCG and Star Trek? CCG. Starting June 20, 2001 and lasting through July 30, 2001, if you send Decipher 30 Reflections wrappers from Star Wars CCG Reflections, Star Wars Reflections II, or Star Trek CCG Reflections and the receipt (dated between June 20, 2001 and July 30, 2001), Decipher will send you an Imperial Barrier foil or a Kivas Fajo - Collector foil!


Sounds like a deal, right? Except for the part about the dated receipt!

Most of the players bought their Reflections 2 in January/February when it was first released. Many of us who remembered being screwed with the DS2 redemption saved their empty rappers in the hope that another redemption would come. And here it is, but wait. You have to have bought them within what dates?

This is a scam. Once again, Decipher is benefiting the wealthy collector instead of the average player. Who wants to go out and buy another whole box of R2 so they have the chance at an Imp Barrier foil (not everyone will even get one, as it says in the whole article). People like me already paid through the nose just to get the EU and combo cards that just so happen to be packaged with the overly priced "shinny sh--" as I've come to call foils. Now, instead of being able to get something for nothing that can be sold on eBay or traded for other cards, they're going to make you buy even more of their crap to get it.

This didn't happen for the DS2 redemption, and it shouldn't happen now. If I didn't enjoy playing this game as much as I do I'd quit to avoid being associated with this company. Personally I feel like Decipher should do the redeptions like they always used to do them, or they should not do them at all.

Does anyone here agree with anything I'm saying, or am I spouting off to the wrong audience?

 

Well I know a lot of other people who are with you Gadget.

 

I strongly disagree.

As I said on the swccg discussion list, Decipher is giving away highly collectible foil cards for ... nothing ... wrappers ... shiny paper used to wrap up cards you would have bought anyway.

You say it is a scam and a ripoff, but you give yourself away with this sentence: "Instead of being able to get something for nothing that can be sold on eBay or traded for other cards...." Okay, so let's get this straight: everyone is complaining because they can't get "something for nothing"? Don't you see what's wrong with that logic?

The current foils-for-shiny-paper program is an incentive to get people to buy Reflections products now. It is not a reward program for past products you have bought.

There was no agreement, no promise that you would ever be able to redeem your Reflections I/II wrappers for something else. How can you then call it a scam and a ripoff?

And what confuses me even more is you refer to Reflections I/II as "crap" and say the foils in Reflections I/II are just "shiny [stuff]" ... well what do you think you're redeeming those wrappers for? More shiny crap! If you have such a low opinion of foil cards to begin with, why do you want one more?

I'm a player first and a collector second, so maybe that's why I have a hard time understanding this attitude. I just think you need to get over this. No one deserves special premium foil cards; no one is being "ripped off" or "scammed". There's the deal, Decipher has spelled it out for you ... if you want to take part in it, do it. If not, then get over it.

Whew! Sorry, guys. Guess I gotta little rilled up there. I'll go take my medication now....

 

I don't think thwe wrappers are the problem so much as the fact that Decipher sprung the receipt thing now too. I think that they knew that more people would save the wrappers and they didn't want it to be so easy for those people to get. By throwing in the fact that you need to have a dated receipt too...that forces a lot of players and collectors who do want the foil to go out and buy more of a product that they probably have enough of. And if Decipher isn't careful, what's gonna happen to Reflections I and II is the same thing that happened to Cloud City and Jabba's Palace when the market got saturated with those products. That's my problem with this whole thing. I didn't mind the online offer at all, but this one really hurts my "Decipher is not all about the money" stance.

 

Has anyone noticed the foil they're offering is the same one you can get by buying RefI/II at their online store? There's one of two things happening here (or both).

(1) Decipher is trying to unload Reflections I and II. Offering foils for RefI/II you bought in the past is not going to help sell the product now. Remember earlier this month when I asked, "What's Decipher gonna do with excess Reflections inventory"? Well I guess now we know.

(2) Decipher offered this foil redemption program to people who bought 1 box (30 packs!) of RefI/II through their brand-new online store to generate interest in the new store, but this alienated traditional retailers, so now Decipher is making exactly the same deal available through them, too.

In either case (and both are pure speculation on my part) this is definitely not the same kind of foil redemption program you've had in the past. Past programs were reward programs; this one is an incentive program.

I don't think this tarnishes "Decipher is not all about the money" reputation at all. Sure, they're not all about the money, but c'mon they gotta make a living. Some of it has to be about the money, or there's no Decipher, right?

 

I'm not saying they are obligated to give me anything. But the way they present their offers is inconsistent. They have never required receipts before, and they shouldn't spring this kind of thing on us now. They should keep the format consistent.

Also, even the hosts of RFD said when they were offering the DS2 redemption that you should hang on to wrappers of furture expansions, because a redemption for them might come someday too. I was like, "Wow, they're right. I think I'll do that." Now they change the system on us. The reason it is a scam/ripoff is that Decipher employees led us (or at least me) to believe that they would do this again, and the same way as before.

And why do I want one more foil if I don't like them to begin with? To trade or sell on eBay. I said that already.

 

You said it right there: They aren't obligated to give you anything. All I objected to was you calling this a "scam" and a "ripoff". It is neither. It simply is not the program you were expecting. Sorry. But that hardly qualifies it as a "scam" or "ripoff". It would be a "scam" if Decipher actually coerced you into buying product you wouldn't have bought ordinarily by promising you something they eventually didn't deliver.

You bought RefI/II because you wanted RefI/II (or didn't buy it because you didn't want it) not because you were coerced with the promise of exclusive foils. No one promised you would ever get to redeem your wrappers for exclusive foil cards. So it's not a scam or a ripoff. Agree?

And the point about why do you even want the foil when you call foils "crap" is this: You are complaining that you can not get a card you do not even want. That undermines your arguement.

 

I'm sorry if my calling it a scam and a ripoff confused you, but if you didn't notice my biggest problem was not that I wasn't getting the card. It's that the system benefits the minority, those who have more money to spend on this game than most people do.

Most people I know will only spend so much on any given CCG title, including myself. I like to play, it's an enjoyable hobby, but I'm not made of money. In the past, these redemption programs were used as a "thank you" for the people who bought the product. Now it's as though they're saying, "thanks, but that's not good enough, buy more and then we'll be happy." I know that they are a company and they have to give some kind of an incentive for us to buy what's left over, but there are other ways to do it than giving out what is currently the most sought after foil for collectors. People like myself who no longer have the money to buy yet another box of R2 miss out on the opprotunity, but people who have the cash have no problem shelling out another $100.

And you seem to be missing something else here too. I DO want the damn card. Just because I don't intend to keep it for my own personal collection doesn't mean I don't want it. There are plenty of other people who do want it that I would be happy to do business with.

 

Okay, now let's calm down for a minute. All I want is for you (and everyone else who agrees with you -- and there are a lot who agree with you) to really think about what you're saying.

You don't really want this foil. You want what this foil can get you. You said it yourself ... what you really want is something for nothing.

There's nothing wrong with wanting something for nothing. Let me make that clear. They're called gifts, and we enjoy getting gifts.

But there is something wrong with expecting gifts, when no gifts were ever promised to you. Understand, there is a difference between wanting a gift and expecting a gift.

There is something wrong with the attitude that somehow you deserve a gift more than someone else. It's called jealousy, envy, and covetousness, and whatever you call it, it is wrong.

You complain that only people who have another $100 to spend on yet another box of RefII will be able to afford this offer. The people who only had $100 to spend in January/February are being slighted. Well, what about the people in Jan/Feb who didn't have $100 even then? What about the people who didn't have $100 then and don't have $100 now? What about the people who can't ever afford to buy boxes of boosters? Are they being slighted, too?

I never bought a box of RefII. Me and two friends split one box between the three of us. That got my EU + combo collection started. I've worked trades, won auctions, and bought individual booster packs since then, and now I've got RefII EUs + combos to spare. Don't have anywhere near all the foils yet, but that's a goal that is too high for me to achieve (what with four URFs and four box toppers and one super-duper-ultra-rare case topper!) so I don't try. I've worked hard to get my cards. But I didn't save any wrappers. Are you saying you deserve this special foil card more than me? Just because you saved wrappers and I did not?

See, your attitude implies that somehow you've earned something someone else has not. It implies Decipher owes you something for something you did. But all you did was buy something you would have bought anyway. That's all I did. I bought/traded/won cards that I wanted, without expecting any kind of reward in return. I didn't earn anything.

It's that attitude that has annoyed me, and led to my responses on this board and on the discussion list. I'm getting over the annoyance phase (thank goodness!) and now I'm trying to get people to see this the way I see it. I hope I've helped you see things a little differently. Just have fun, okay? Get the cards you can -- which may not be all the cards you want -- try to just spend what you can truly afford, and play the game for fun. That's what it's all about. It shouldn't be about exclusive premium foil redemption programs, it should be about the game. It should be about having fun.

Have a good weekend, and as corny as it may sound:
May The Force Be With You!

 

whoa whoa here. I'm not saying Decipher is in it for the money. I have NEVER said that. I'm just saying that this latest promotion hurts my argument in OTHER people's eyes. Also, I too remember Decipher saying something on RFD after the last promotion to the effect that the player community should save their wrappers in case they decided to do a similar promotion in the future. Granted they have the right to change whatever they want to do and we are talking about a very limited foil here, but still, I can see where people can be mislead. And the fact is, most people don't look under the surface for the reasons. Most people look at the bottom line (a.k.a. money) and right now most people are seeing Decipher insulting their intelligence and forcing them to buy more product they don't neccessarily need as the bottom line.

And remember my argument about over-saturation...that will hurt EVERYONE.

 

Seeing as though I never bought a single pack of RF2, I swapped for it, I might get involved, but I fail to see the logic of an aussie getting involved in the competition. One guy I know tried to get some packs of RF2 that had crappy distribution replaced, took a few more months than he was prepard to wait.

 

Decipher said save your wrappers in case they ran a promotion in the future. I would say that's still true. Save those wrappers! You never know when a new reward program is going to come along.

 

Well, regardless of who's right and who's wrong, it no longer matters to me. The guy I bought my R2 from had the same opinion as me, and gave me a receipt that has the date Big D is looking for. Am I cheating the system? Yes. Will I lose sleep over it? Not on your life. Was I expecting a gift? Probably, and I'm getting it.

 

For those who are pissed off there's two ways to react:
1. If your a player then don't collect foils, these kinds of offers are mainly foil cards and you don't need them.
2. If your a collector then never buy a new set, wait for the "great deal" later on.

If we (the customers) behave right then we reward sensible behavior. If instead we behave in a way that encourages these kinds of offers then we only have ourselves to blame!

Decipher are there to make a profit and we can't blame them for that.

DT

ps I use my foils to trade for things I would have otherwise bought. That way D doesn't make any extra sales out of them.