PT Anyone prefer The Force Awakens?

When it comes to the "rehash" issue, here's how I feel:

I went to watch TFA with my family after marathoning the previous 6 films. And, as we came out of the theater, my mother was insulted by how similar TFA was to the previous films, particularly ANH. People can say they didn't think that TFA was a rehash and that's fine - it's their opinion. But I'll never forget that, for me, the most enjoyable part of my experience of watching TFA was the car ride home where my mother took the utter piss out of TFA and cracked me and my brother up.

When it comes to TFA, I aways think "Well, I could watch this film, but why would I want to when ANH already does everything it does and does it infinitely better?"

Are there people who prefer TFA? Sure. Am I one of them? Nope.

 

Brotha, I wish I was there to see that

 

That's a shame, honestly. I caught the movie a few times. Each time I saw a packed cinema of people all leave with huge smiles on their faces, going on about how awesome the film was. As with all movies though, you can't please everyone.

 

The difference between TPM and TFA is, TPM is an even closer remake of The Hidden Fortress than ANH was and the state of the galaxy is quite different than ANH, which makes it far more appealing that TFA.

 

TFA is also drenched in the look of the OT.

The parts on Jakku with the downed Star Destroyers and AT-ATs should have been what the rest of the film was like. Acknowledging the impact of the OT, but not redoing it.

The rest of the film destroys any good will this builds up, by having Star Destroyers, AT-ATs and X-wings all still being used in the same conflict. Meaning that the ruins of the OT aren't dead and buried. They've been resurrected as a zombie, with a decay in quality.

 

That all made sense to me. The OT/ST are both set in the Imperial and post-Imperial era. The First Order evolved from the Empire. I believe that even Lucas would have gone with an Imperial remnant as the villains. It just seems so obvious. Still haven't heard anyone come up with a better suggestion. Of course the Prequel Era looks very different from what came after. There was a 1000 year Republic in place. It was torn down by Palpatine. No such momentous event happened in between the OT and ST. It was always going to be a mild evolution of what we saw in the OT. 30 years is hardly any time at all really. Especially when the galaxy was a shambles and had to slowly rebuild.

 

Well I've always loved the Gungans including Jar Jar and I certainly didn't find the Naboo stiff and dull. Guess thats one of the reasons why I like the movie so much. Like you said characters are very important in a film and I found the ones in TPM to be much more engaging to me than the ones in TFA. So thats gotta be a big reason I like the film better.

I don't find the characters dull and boring or wooden or any of those other cliche things that are always said about the movie. I found the characters very interesting and engaging. I loved Qui-gon, Obi-Wan, Anaiken, Padme, Jar Jar, Boss Nass, Captain Tarpals, act. And Shmi was really great as Anakins mother in that film.

 

Darth Downunder

but I can't see anything in there^ where you talk about what was new and original in TFA .

.

 

It is absolutely amazing that people that are defending TFA and it's rehashed and nostalgia driven visuals, plot devices, story, etc etc are actually using the Chewbacca and Millennium Falcon as even close to being equal or on the same level as what we see in TFA.

When it comes to the "Falcon", It's an Easter Egg. A fun little thing thrown into movies by Film Makers or animators etc etc that mean nothing to the plot of the movie, they are just fun things to look for. That is why in ROTS, there is a kitchen sink colliding with a Republic Cruiser, in AOTC there is a Shaak (the creature Anakin rides during the picnic scenes) floating around in the Asteroid Field, I believe the Enterprise is in TPM, ET is in the Senate, there's 3 Tie Fighters chasing an X-wing in AOTC:




To suggest that the falcon in this:




Is anywhere near the same level of nostalgia, fan pandering, nods, rehashing etc etc in TFA is ridiculous...

Chewbacca? yes, it is fan pandering, something for the fans to get a kick out of there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! However, remove Chewbacca from ROTS and what happens? Nothing! He has no bearing on the plot of any kind! Tarful is still there to help Yoda. Can't say that about the rehashing, and fan pandering in TFA. Remove Tie Fighters what happens? Remove Stormtroopers what happens? Remove Death Star 3.0 what happens? etc etc etc...

 

Then it worked perfectly for you, which is great. Unfortunately it didn't for alot of people. To many the Gungans were annoying & alot of the characters were flat & wooden. Two descriptions by the way that several of the cast even observed.

I think you have it back to front Mike. Given Chewie's cameo was useless & had no meaning to the plot that's the worst kind of pandering. If there were an important reason to explain the millions to one coincidence of he & Yoda crossing paths it would be a less gratuitous example of pandering.

Of course the Falcon is a trivial little Easter egg for the OT fans. I didn't suggest otherwise. It's one minor example of the "pandering" to the OT that takes place throughout the PT. I use quotation marks there bcs to me it's not a bad thing. Same goes for TFA. Mostly at least. A couple of examples were a bit on the nose IMO...but then again, same with the PT. Apart from Chewie & Yoda being pals there's all of the re-purposed OT dialogue. Did Anakin really need to rip of Han's "this is where the fun begins"? That's the sort of thing you'd be reaming Abrams for if Finn or Poe had said that. People have had a dig at TFA for a couple of self-referential in jokes & dialogue. But how about 3PO saying in AotC "R2 seems to be carrying a msg from an Obi-Wan Kenobi". Or Obi's winks to the audience like "how uncivilized!" & "why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?". Anyway I won't go on. Suffice it to say I could fill a couple of pages with all of the OT pandering examples in the PT.

Great analysis I can understand some people's issues with the similar ships etc but in-universe I can't see a single problem. And personally that's always the vantage point that I like to judge from.

 

Being self-referential like the OT and PT were is great in a big universe like Star Wars, because it connects it all together, but in TFA it just comes across as hollow and forced.

The in-universe problem is, nothing might as well have even happened in between RotJ and TFA. The Jedi haven't returned yet because reasons, and the New Republic might as well not even exist and is a colossal failure that was completely incapable of properly defeating the Empire and its ideology. The peace brought by the New Republic was little more than a false peace, since the Empire never truly died and its ideology ultimately returned with a vengeance with the First Order.

 

I'll assume you mean that it comes off that way to YOU. Only one person I know in real life didn't like TFA, and many of then rank it in their top three Star Wars movies. I think the plot of the ST will focus on complicating the idea of "peace" as a concept. I mean, If you saw ROTJ as representing an ultimate victory, then you'd one who thinks of peace as an event.... something more or less permanent and irrevocable. But I think the ST will talk about peace as a PROCESS, something that must always be happening. The tension in the Force between light and dark is constant, always in action. The defeat of the Sith only mean the destruction of an unbalancing agent.... the dark side still exists and fear and hate do not disappear form the galaxy. The idea of the Jedi is recognize that, I think, and understand that they must be ever vigilant agents against the dark, whatever its form.

I think a lot of this proceeds directly from Europe in the 1930's. The Great War... the War to End All Wars had been fought and won, but at terrible price, and the world was weary. And in that weariness, they allowed an even darker power to rise. I think we are getting a parallel of that story.

 

Wait I never knew about those Easter Eggs! The Falcon? The X-Wings. wow.

You learn something new everyday.

Where's TFA Easter Egg's?

(and no one say Phasma!)

 

I think your fishing here. All references to the FO by the production have been parallels to Nazis hiding out in some place or another. Its not WW1 to WW2 Germany which is completely different. The fallout of WW1 led to the far worse WW2. No one had as big a problem with the Nazis because they were new, which is what happened with the Republic to Empire transition. However, if the Nazis started gaining power again it would undoubtedly make everyone very nervous and possibly cause a preemptive strike not twiddling their thumbs and staring at the wall. In fact, anything so much as resembling Nazism is heavily outlawed in Germany.

This highlights my whole point in my previous post about how inclusion of ideas are very shallow and don't mesh with each other well. The FO and Resistance exist simply for the purpose of having Empire vs Rebels 2.0. There is no depth and searching for it will just find you the bottom of an empty pool. There wasn't really much further thought to it than that, which shows since explanations surrounding the state of the galaxy are nil.

 

I wasn't aware of those easter eggs when I saw RotS, because they are easy to miss since they are blink and you will miss them moments.

 

I don't think I am even REMOTELY fishing. While I certainly think Lucasfilm wanted to continue in a Rebels v. Empire mode (because it is immensely popular), I think their tie-ins to the 30's are undeniable. The Empire is an analog to Imperial Germany. The officer's unform is inspired by an Imperial German cavalry officer's uniform. The uniform is gray-green, like the Imperial German uniform, or the WWII Wehrmacht. The First Order is an analog for the Third Reich. The similar structure of structure of the name is no mistake. General Hux's uniform, with it's sleeve bands, strongly resembles an SS Officer's uniform. The Chancellor of the New Republic is named Villecham. Weird name, right? Not if you consider the famously appeasing British Prime Minister NeVILLE CHAMberlain.

You may not buy it, or you may not like it, but the inspiration for the political state of the galaxy and the rise of the First Order is undeniable, IMO.

 

The problem with that assessment is, the Empire itself was always inspired by Nazi Germany, which makes basing the First Order on the Third Reich redundant.

 

JJ Abrams says otherwise, that the FO was born out of post WW2 Nazi's that regrouped in Argentina (A Well known Nazi hiding spot post WW2)....

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/star-wars-force-awakens-order-inspired-nazis/story?id=33338629

 

Not to me. It was a great way to bring Chewie back and to introduce a famous planet Kashyyyk.

Worst kind of pandering? Perhaps having Han explaining the Kessel run for the second time? Having Finn accidentally turning on that chess game on Falcon? Useless and no meaning, right?

The simplest answer would be: Lucas managed to sell us the same thing in a different package. J. J. and Kasdan didn't bother to change the package.

 

mikeximus Exactly! You have illustrated what I was saying even better. At this point it just seems almost pointless to have any criticisms of TFA.


Like lets take Midichlorians as an example. Remember all the whining that accompanied that? Of course we do. It is still happening. But where is the whining about the light saber calling out to people? We have 2 trilogies where a light saber has never "called out to anyone" Where is the outrage about this? Oh and I won't even get into people pulling force powers out of there *** when not even having been taught. But on other forums there are people comparing Rey to Luke and Anakin. I can only SMH at this. If people can reach as far as they do, why didn't they do this with every SW film?


See I know without a shadow of a doubt that if Lucas made the exact same film, he would have never heard the end of it. I am so positive about my statement that I would stake my own life on it. But as some other genius says, "WHO CARES!"

TFA is a rip off? WHO CARES

Originality? WHO CARES

Quality movies? WHO CARES

See how stupid it looks when one applies the "WHO CARES" method to all aspects of the film?

Disney's new business model regarding SW:

K-Keep
I-IT
S-Simple
S-Stupid


The KISS method.

 

TFA's Easter Eggs? That would be the plot, blink and you miss it... It's there, somewhere, but, off in the corner of a frame or two..

 

As if it's some brilliant insight that TFA has a similar structure to the OT films...(not just ANH). Of course it does. That was deliberate. JJ tied that into the thematic current of the films as well. Makes sense that some people didn't appreciate that. I wish it had veered off that path a bit more myself. But there's nothing more to say on the subject, really. It was a deliberate rhyme, with a new thematic twist: Looking back for wisdom, but leaving the past behind in order to move forward. All characters did that except for Kylo, and that's why he's a villain.

 

It is almost as if TFA has become untouchable to most people just because of the positive reception. Well, that doesn't stop some people from slamming say the Transformers films. I enjoyed them, pretty much because of Megan Fox, but that doesn't in anyway make them great. These likable characters don't in anyway make up for the flawed film that is TFA either.

 

I'm sorry, but when do any of the characters ever look back?

Finn never really mentions his past post-defection. It certainly doesn't affect his actions when killing his enslaved comrades.

Rey only looks back once, when she mentions her 'abandonment' issues, which is so vague that it barely qualifies as part of her characterisation. It only comes up once, and she never actually deals with the issue.

Poe certainly never looks back. None of the OT characters look back to ROTJ for their missing characterisation.

And the rest of the script isn't 'leaving the past behind it'. Far from it, the vast majority of plot points and designs are directly from the OT.

 

Probably a longer answer than you are hoping for, but I explain this point in the following article:

http://www.theforce.net/story/front...sis_of_star_wars_the_force_awakens_167478.asp