anyone want to admit slight dissapointment of THE DUEL

I'm gonna admit it. This is something i've kept deep inside but I think it's time to admit it. The Duel (Obi VS Anakin) did not live up to expectations. We would get glimpses of their training and they would tell us how kick ass the duel was going to be but in the end... it was just alright.

here are the things i think they got right the pros
-Anakin and Padme's argument
-Obi and Anakin argument
-Obi's dialogue after he cut Anakin's feet off
-When they are fighting each other in the lava boat thing and it looks like they're really straining to fight

here are the cons
-anakin does a backflip to attack Obi-Wan at beginning...was that... really necessary...
-anakin kicks obi wan and he does a backflip.. cammann
-when Obi kicks Anakin in the side of his leg and Anakin flips... WUTT???
-the lightsaber sound effects just weren't fierce enough (Obi vs Darth Maul, the lightsabers sounded like monsters themselves it was awesome but here they're just... whatever)
-At the beginning when they are fighting and they are going really fast, I think the camera angles just didn't do it justice. Even their practice videos looked cooler than in the movie.
-They get on tubes and it looks like they are about to fight on the tubes but it ends in like 2 seconds.. what the heck was that...
-Jumping off and landing into a random robot in the lava... and this might have worked better if the sound effects of Obi and Anakin landing on those things were a bit louder but, the sound is so drowned out that it makes it seem extra fake.
-Anakin hangs on a cable and when he tries to get back on the platform... the effect of the wire holding him is sooooo obvious (but that's something i'd be willing to let go but...still kinda annoying)

here are the things I would have liked to see
-Anakin getting the scar on his cheek that is seen in Return of the Jedi (and while they were at it, cut his ear off cause in Return of the Jedi he doesn't have his ear either) THis would have made the fight feel more like they where serious and not just playing around.
-More dialogue during the fight... and not lame dialogue like, "i have failed you.." "From my point of view bla bla" Rick told us that words were going to cut deeper than lightsabers... and i mean.. after the fight and before maybe... but... during the fight.. nahh they sounded like little kids throwing insults at each other.
- Maybe some force throwing of stuff to each other? (nick said we'd see every trick in the book) I didnt' see any saber throwing... is that asking too much for the supposedly ULTIMATE DUEL of the saga?!?

anyways who agrees/ disagrees???

let me know what you think

 

I thought it was pretty good for the most part. They once again fell into the trap of CGI for the sake of it with the lava surfing, but otherwise pretty satisfying.

 

I too would have preferred the duel to be without the lava surfing.

I found the duel played out too much like an arena battle. The place didn't feel real to me, it felt like an arena theatre. I would have liked to see more of that "old galaxy" look that we love about the OT.. What IS the function of this place? Droids making droids using lava just seems to lose all the human elements that make it feel lived in to me.

 

I think you can see that later in the film.

 

Yeah, when he's you, know, being burned alive.

 

The things I dont like is
1.dark environment(unfortunately necessary)
2.Too complex(jumping up n down blah blah blah)
That's it

 

I thought it was pretty good myself. My only issues would be that I didn't like the editing in/out to other events (Yoda/Palpatine). At least at one point we finally got to see the duel through to its conclusion.

The other problem I have is the fake-ness of the lava. When they fight out to the end of the elevated platform and the lava explodes up and over the platform and then melts it so that the platform falls into the lava lake... what happens to all the lava that would now be above them??? Nothing... it has to vanish for the sake of the characters and so it does. In truth (realizing this is an already implausible situation) the lava still at the top of the now-severed platform would have rained down on our combatants.

And finally... aside from Vader in ESB... never did we see even one other battle where one of the fighters used the force to hurl stuff at his opponent in the midst of going at them with his lightsaber. Only Dooku launched some things at Yoda - but that was while he was standing there posturing. I'd like to have seen Obi and Anakin constantly hurling equipment/tools/etc. at one another throughout the battle. Really amp up THE FORCE aspect of their combat.

One last "complaint"... the very poor attention to details when they are fighting on top of the table... one second Obi's holding his lightsaber... then he's holding Anakins... then back to his... back to Anakins, etc. Whoever was in charge of consistency there blew it and I can't believe they didn't fix it digitally.

All that said... I personally really enjoyed it.

 

What more do you guys want? Things are never as good as you think they will be, nor will they exactly match your expectations. THE DUEL was by far the longest lightsaber fight written, and it was done at the same time ANOTHER lightsaber fight was going on. Ewan and hayden did this flawlessly without the need for speeding the film up.

If you want a better duel, go and do one yourself but I guarantee it will be nowhere near as good as THE DUEL

 

Personally I think I might prefer the AOTC dueling since the duel between obi-wan and anakin is dark and a bit confusing.

 

I liked it but I thought there would have been more interaction between them. I was hoping to hear more from Obi Wan trying to get Anakin to turn back to the light.

Also there was way to much CGI going on which for me made it look a bit fake.

 

I thought it was too complicated. They didn't need all the climbing and swinging and surfing, etc. I LOVED the Obi-wan vs. Maul fight from TPM, and wish it was more like that. Or failing that, more ESB-like.

Did Lucas even *watch* the originals again before diving into the Prequels?

 

"If you want a better duel, go and do one yourself but I guarantee it will be nowhere near as good as THE DUEL"

i think Obi vs Darth Maul was far better. If they had kept that intensity for the whole fight that would have been pretty sweet.

and someone said, "Things are never as good as you think they will be"

actually yes somethings do get hyped up and they deliver. This thing was amped up by the producers and the stunt coordinator like crazy. I was following episode 3 since episode 2 and every interview that dealt with the DUel made it seem like it was going to be the best fight ever seen on screen. was it.. no? dissapointing? yes. end of the world? no.

 

It's such an extended combat that its intensity and energy are diffused. By its running time alone it cannot compete with the brief and overwhelming onslaught of Kenobi vs. Maul. The first part of Kenobi vs. Anakin almost equals the intensity of the Maul fight, but once they enter the control chamber and begin punching and kicking one another, the peak of excitement is lost. This is not a flaw, per se, since the story calls for it and the flow and pacing are sustained nicely through the combat out on the bridge. I enjoy the climbing pursuit up the sinking tower, but once they leap onto the hover-droids the believability is lost and I'm pulled out of the movie. I do like the dialogue exchange -- "I have failed you, etc." -- I just wish it could have taken place in a more convincing locale. Fortunately, the duel ends on a powerful note on the bank of the lava stream, so all's well as ends worse.

 

I was let down in general by ROTS when I saw it but only because I held so many high expectations. I watched it with the DVD release and my opinion changed. I had ideas of what I thought ROTS should be but it wasn't so I was mad. To err is to be human, to forgive is divine. I think that one day we will see a special edition of ROTS that will show more of the Kashyyyk battle and so much other material I can't think of off the top of my head.

On the topic of the duel. I like this duel. I will say that the best duel of all time is Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker on Bespin. However I felt that it was a great duel and you have to be realistic as a fan. Yes they probably could have done without the lava journey but that was what happened. That was where the duel took place. You try to duel like they were and you tell me how beautiful and cinematic it will be. Have you tried to actually lightsaber duel randomly on the spot? How many times did you not even hit each other or block the wrong way? Yes that's harsh but you have to realize that they were also battling the environment.

 

I was more excited by the Yoda / Sidious segment during the duel.

But overall i thought the Anakin vs Obi-wan battle was good. I thought the double force push was a mistake. I liked the idea, but ideally Anakin should really have overpowered Obi-wan with the force push. Anakin was left as Obi-wans equal, even though he was constantly pushed during the PT as potentially the most powerful force user ever.

 

Emphasis on the word "potentially". These things take time. See: Yoda.

 

Man the simultaneous Force push was outstanding.

Generally I think The Duel lived up to the hype.

Bad parts:

(1) generally the dialogue was weak "My allegiance is to democracy, to the Republic!" Could have been WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more bitter/emotional, considering how close these friends/brothers are. We don't get to see the emotion until the bitter end.

(2) I actually loved the journey through the lava, but agreed that the lava surfing just didn't look right, although it's clearly far superior in digital on the DVD.


Overall:

(1) Some of the choreography was great, and I realize Obi-Wan trained Anakin so they'd fight similarly, but I thought there were a few too many repetitive movements.

The main part of the problem is that the "Back in Black" video that leaked that only showed clips of Ewan and Hayden rehearsing showed some amazing choreography that out-did anything we had seen to date in the Saga, including the Kenobi/Maul duel.

Is the "back in black" video still around somewhere?

 

I very shyly put my hand up here, but for a few different reasons than the one's mentioned. Mainly cause it got slower and slower and I was enjoying the really fast stuff (I know they were tiring out but still...). I also thought the two could've been a bit fiercer or maybe animal like to get the idea across that it's a friendship broken up and they're out to kill each other. You don't get a real picture of their emotions during the fight so much as after, but it's a damn good after-fight scene, and I love it when Vader says "I hate you." As for the sound effects being better in TPM, I reckon they still could've done a cooler duel without them, but that's also one of my favourite things about the Darth Maul fight.

Overall, maybe words didn't cut deeper than blades during the fight, but they certainly did after. There's a significant violent wounding which gives it more impact than if Obi had just stabbed him, and there's still some jaw dropping choreography that's brilliantly excecuted. Plus it's cool to know that they didn't use stunt doubles. So on my list, it's very close behind the Darth Maul vs Obi-Wan fight in terms of coolness and style, but it's definately the most epic battle in the Saga.

 

I originally thought that it was too extreme and dangerous but this is the new way that Jedi and Sith are portrayed. And considering Vader was destined to lose both legs and burn before being put into the suit I think that the ending was OK. Not easy to pull off.

I was also happy at the reasonably graphic detail that was given to the end scene.

 

I was a little disappointed with it, but I had a feeling I would be. After the disappointing duels of AOTC, I knew they'd never be able to top Duel of the Fates. The actors just weren't good enough. Ewan and Christian did very well, but on-the-spot training, CG and digital face-pasting are just no match for an awesome stuntman like Ray Park. However, I very much liked the beginning of the duel, especially when they are quickly advancing down the narrow hallway. Once they get outside, however, it's too much about the lava and the environment, and not as much about the choreography. But I do like the dialogue towards the end of the duel. Obi-Wan is a great but tragic figure right then and there.

Ironically, I think that Anakin's rematch with Dooku, brief as it may be, stole the thunder from the Mustafar duel. In my opinion, it was one of the top three duels of the Saga (Duel of the Fates and Bespin being the top two).

 

I was dissapointed by the severe lack of emotional drama within the duel itself. Lead up was great, and ending was great--when it's characters, dialog and their relationships changing. The Duel itself was boring and uninspired--a lot of lifeless flash, dull acrobatics and bad CGI, over-edited and with bad sound-mixing. Yawn. What happened to "Obi Wan once thought as you do?" What happened to the emotional drama of best friends battling to the death, and master and student finally facing each other? Eh. ESB's drama was a hundred times better, and totally divorced from the technological reasons Lucas claims prevented him from making the prequels in the first placce. To me it sums up Revenge of the Sith as a whole--really good when its firing on all cylinders, but only firing on all cylcinders 50% of the time it ought to be.

 

They covered that. And no, I don't mean what you think I mean.

 

I must have saw a different movie then.

 

I soooooooooooooo wish that Lucas would go in and re-edit ROTJ, with just two tiny words.

"Your mother once thought as you do..."

That would be totally awesome on an emotional level.
And it would fit seamlessly.

***

As for the Duel, it was pretty...
but lacked personality, wit and emotional depth.
Just like most hot chicks.


And the awesome dialogue at the end can't save it.
Duel of the fates is my FAV (minus the final 17 ill-conceived seconds), everything else falls short.

 

It's not necessary. It still fits given the scenes we have.