AOTC beaten by Spider-Man this summer

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darth Blasphemous, Jul 10, 2002.

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  1. Darth_Chewie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    {I}""It was just so by the numbers. The origin of the super hero, the montage of him fighting crime for the first time, the origin of
    the villain, they meet, the girl gets kidnapped, final showdown. Blah blah blah. You can't sum up AOTC in the same cliche'd
    manner."

    exactly. on the unbreakable dvd, m. night shyamalan talke about the standard 3 act superhero story." {/I}

    Funny if your objective, you could say the same thing about the 1st 3 SW films being the std 3 act story, just spread out b/t 3 movies.
    ANH - Luke discovers his powers.
    ESB - Luke takes on small time Empite thugs, and then big time villian at the end
    ROTJ - Luke takes on and defeats the big villiam.

    Funny how things work like that.
  2. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
  3. Darth_Chewie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    "search your heart, you know it be true"
  4. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    "Highlander 2 was directed by the same guy as the first one."

    my bad it was the writer who abandoned the project... even more important than the director in many cases.
  5. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    oh please


    Care to elaborate on that remark? :)
  6. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    How does this thread differ from the one about box office numbers? How did Spiderman win? Box office. Good. Go to the B.O. thread and discuss it there.
  7. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    I had my say earlier, on teh more general topic of Spidey "beating" AOTC (I liked both movies)...

    ...but as to Spidey being cliche, that gets tricky. I love orignality too, but sometimes the EXECUTION of a fairly predictable plot can make all the difference. Speaking as someone who really enjoys the SW films, I would be hard pressed to say there ISN'T a tendency there towards SOME formula. For example, ANH, ROTJ and TPM all conclude with a major space battle in which small band of heroes must take on a huge spacecraft and destroy it (Death Star 1, Death Star 2, Trade Federation Control ship).

    Again... I don't see why one HAS to dislike one or the other...

    Shadow
  8. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    I love orignality too, but sometimes the EXECUTION of a fairly predictable plot can make all the difference.

    Did anyone think for a second that Luke wasn't going to blow up the Death Star? SW is built upon the cliches (we don't really see them because most of us on these boards weren't around) of old 30's pulp serials and samurai films. Watch an old Samurai film and you'll start screaming "hey they ripped off SW!" Of course the samurai film probably came decades before. I think Lucas has lost sight of what originally influenced him. The PT doesn't have that same cliffhanger feel of the old Republic Serials like the OT did.

    So let's not pretend that SW is this highly original piece of work. Because it's not. It's as cliche ridden as SpiderMan. Some just prefer one type of cliche over another.
  9. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    MadMardigan


    I'll admit I follow the numbers but I do not really care who comes on top. Movies I like I hope do well. Movies I do not like well, I do not really care how they end up. I like watching the big blockbusters to see where they end up on the All time BO list. But really just do care hugely what movie ends where.
  10. Darth_Racer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 2
    This may have been discussed, but, this thread subject is not really comparing apples to apples. AOTC is the 5th movie of a series of 6....it's done very well at the BO for a 5th movie. The true comparison for SM should be between other movie series' first installment like first films of LOTR or HP, or.....the original SW-ANH. Obviously, SM box office take doesn't come close to ANH, especially if you take ticket price inflation into account. I doubt very seriously if a "5th" SM movie could make up to $300 million....more like half of that. So, remember, if you want to make BO comparisons, you have to have a little historical perspective.
  11. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    i hope movies i dont like flop at the box offices, that way hollywood wont make more of them like it. like teen movies, when a new one comes out, i want it to flop so that trend will finally be over.
  12. entfirst Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 3
    I loved both films, but I enjoyed AOTC quite a bit more. I've seen Spider-Man twice and AOTC 5 times.
  13. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "The PT doesn't have that same cliffhanger feel of the old Republic Serials like the OT did."

    Oh really? I thought AOTC was the ultimate cliffhanger film. Remember the bit where Obi-Wan, Anakin and Padme are about to be killed by the Destroyer Droids, and Mace and the other Jedi arrive to save the day? Or when the final circle of Jedi are about to be wiped out and the clones come to the rescue? Or when Anakin and Obi-Wan are at Dooku's mercy and Yoda shows up? That's pure Republic serial stuff.
  14. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    i hope movies i dont like flop at the box offices, that way hollywood wont make more of them like it. like teen movies, when a new one comes out, i want it to flop so that trend will finally be over.


    Nope. We will always get movies like "The New Guy" and that one baseball movie that had Freddie Prinze Jr. and Jessica Biel starring in it :)
  15. Darth_Prozac Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Spider-Man beats AOTC at the box office...

    Who gives a Batha's ass?
  16. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Listen to Import_Jedi. Seriously, Dude Wher's My Car" is on the way. No lie. Oh, and be sure to check out "The Santa Clause 2" coming this holiday season to a theater near you, beggin to be trounced tremendously by Harry Potter and Frodo.

    BTW, PM & AOTC current worldwide boxoffice draw is just over $1,470,000,000.00.
  17. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    "The PT doesn't have that same cliffhanger feel of the old Republic Serials like the OT did."

    Huh? Clones sure did. I cannot wait for Episode 3. It has the potential to be the best prequel film yet.

    The problem is we know the outcome of the story. But the newer, younger fans who are watching just the prequels will likely be surprised at the outcome. They're growing up with the PT like I did the OT.
  18. Darth_Zoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2002
    star 4
    I was one to say SM was cliche. (I did enjoy SM the movie)

    The reasons are not because of superhero movie molds. The one "cliche" scene which I cannot forget from SM is when Mary-Jane runs out of her "trailer in the city" house with her red kneck father yelling at her. Now am I the only one who found that scene laughable! Another example was the entire ending fight sequence with GG versus SM, that could of been just cut and I would of been happier.

    Spiderman was good flashy fun, but it has some serious problems that many fanboys like to overlook. "Don't mess wit' New Yowk" O please...
  19. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    I believe that Stan Lee, who co-created Spider-Man back in 1962 (that's 40 years ago for the mathematically impaired) was a producer on the film and obviously had some creative input (Raimi would have been stupid not to take advantage of what Lee thought).

    While the film may seem like a "cliche" now, it nails the essence and spirit of the character, despite some minor flaws. When Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and Jack Kirby came on the scene back in the '60s, they reinvented the superhero genre and practically invented the Marvel Universe. At the time, I doubt that anything they did seemed like a "cliche".

    Does AOTC rock? Absolutely. But as a comic book fan, this Spidey bashing is getting a bit lame.


  20. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Quote:
    "Funny if your objective, you could say the same thing about the 1st 3 SW films being the std 3 act story, just spread out b/t 3 movies."

    No, you can't sum up the Star Wars movies in the same way. of course there's a hero's journey but you're leaving out the political drama, the romance, and most importantly, Anakin's whole story. taken individually, AOTC definitly cannot be summed up in one sentence the way SpiderMan can and you can't find 20 other movies with the exact same plot like you can with SpiderMan.
  21. Joey7F Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2000
    star 4
    So people are predicting that Spider Man the DVD will outsell Star Wars the DVD.

    This is a great example of drawing a poor conclusion from factual statements.

    Statement 1: Star Wars is usually the top movie of the summer true

    Statement 2: Star Wars was not number one and therefore must be falling in popularity compared to other movies true

    Statement 3: Spiderman beat Star Wars at the box office. true

    Therefore Star Wars will sell less units than Spiderman...

    Wrong

    The reason why this is not the case is that Star Wars has two very good things going for it

    1. A HUGE following
    2. A DEDICATED following

    Spiderman had a mainstream following as well as geek. Star Wars also had a mainstream following but the geek to normal person ratio was higher for Star Wars than for Spiderman...the type of people who buy a movie are "fans".

    Spiderman would have to have one hell of a DVD set in order for me to buy it (and a good price) but Star Wars we know will be fantastic and at a good price.

    --Joey
  22. Sophita Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    "Funny if your objective, you could say the same thing about the 1st 3 SW films being the std 3 act story, just spread out b/t 3 movies."

    No, you can't sum up the Star Wars movies in the same way. of course there's a hero's journey but you're leaving out the political drama, the romance, and most importantly, Anakin's whole story. taken individually, AOTC definitly cannot be summed up in one sentence the way SpiderMan can and you can't find 20 other movies with the exact same plot like you can with SpiderMan.


    Padme Bra, I couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly the same way I feel.

    I liked both Spiderman and AOTC, but I thought AOTC was the far better done film. I saw Spiderman once...probably won't see it again. I might not even go see the sequel, since (small spiderman kinda spoiler) they killed off the one character I went to see SM for. It was a good summer movie, and I liked it, but I doubt 20 years from now people will still be talking about Spiderman.

    On the other hand, I saw AOTC at least 3 times, and I know I'll buy the DVD when it comes out. It's a good film, and definanly more well developed than most summer blockbusters ever are.
  23. Verry Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2002
    star 3
    When Jurassic Park came out on video it was the best selling video ever. OH? and how's the AotC vs. SPidermann thing doing all over the world. I know Spiderman will win in America by 100 million, but can AotC make that up else where?


  24. Imperial_Guard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    "geek to normal person ratio" [face_laugh]

    Looking at various responses, it seems obvious that people can find as little depth or as much depth in something as they want.

    Spider-Man may be a cliche of itself and the genre that it comes from. That doesn't mean it doesn't do a good job of it in the process.

    SW is a collection of cliches, including superhero comics, and after 5 films, they all follow certain conventions and formulas (GL mentions this frequently on the TPM commentary) and have done it, more or less, quite well.

    AOTC may be the most complex of the Star Wars films but it's hardly a "complex" film.

    You could easily argue that we live in an age of cliches anyway where originality is an illusion. Out of the summer films this year, can anyone name one that was actually an original screenplay with no source material?

  25. kampilan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, many elements in Spidey were more down to Earth like MJ's family problems like in the comics(change somewhat for the big screen but still strong). She's this nice, popular girl on the outside but inside she is full of hurt from an verbally abusive father. "Sticks and stones" but its true that words can cut deeper.
    Padme' is genuinely nice BUT she's a pampered poltician.
    People want to cheer for Peter Parker just like people cheered for "Forrest Gump". When Anakin's mom, Shmi died you kinda want him to "get the Bastards" along with him but there is a thin line. People felt the loss and sorrow and its cool we see Padme finally feeling closer to Anakin when he goes off to find Shmi. Then there is the "slaughter confession" scene that plays out pretty good. The last "confession" scene was good but not as powerful as Peter Parker valiantly giving MJ the "let's just be friends" speech or better yet, the "How Spidey feels about MJ" in the hospital scene with one "sleeping" Aunt May! ;)
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