AOTC boring?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by JediDugan, Jun 18, 2002.

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  1. prof_frink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 1999
    star 3
    As a Star Wars fan, I don't see why on earth other Star Wars fans are so against other films like LOTR and Spiderman?

    I agree with you, we are all supposed to be fans of 'film' and there is no law against being a fan of all types of movies...

    I guess though, what's hjappening, is alot of people come here and say things like "LOTR is the movie AOTC should be or Spiderman is 10 times the movie AOTC is" so there is a natural tendancy to fight back and there is a sort of backlash against those movies...

    So comparing any of those films, in my opinion is like comparing a car to a motorocycle - they will both get you from point A to point B, but whih ride to you enjoy more? Everybody's answer is different.
  2. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Am I the only one who liked the Senate scenes in TPM? :)

    Personally, I think that many key scenes, like Padme's address to the Senate, The Trial on Geonosis, Dooku's conversation with Senator Amidala were all cut because people complained about all of the politics in the last film. Heck, they even cut some of Jimmy Smit's lines and I was quite beside myself. ;) I quite like politics in Star Wars, makes it all feel more real, I guess that is why my favorite scene in ANH is the one where Motti and Tagge and Tarkin are discussing the disolution of the Imperial Senate (Vader's force choke doesn't hurt either).

    Palpatine is one of my favorite characters in the entire saga. If you find his political scheming to be boring... you're missing the point. He may be evil, but it's wonderful to watch a master at work, if you know what I mean. :)


    As for boring, the first time through I found some of it to be boring, the second-seventh times through uh uh... no way. :)

    "I guess though, what's hjappening, is alot of people come here and say things like "LOTR is the movie AOTC should be or Spiderman is 10 times the movie AOTC is" so there is a natural tendancy to fight back and there is a sort of backlash against those movies... "

    Here Here! I liked Spiderman and LOTR but when Star Wars is attacked I can't help myself.
  3. prof_frink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 1999
    star 3
    Am I the only one who liked the Senate scenes in TPM?

    No you're not! I loved them - especially the look on Padme's face when she can see that the senate will not help her - anyone who says she can't act should look at that scene...

    Anyway, we're off topic now...
  4. Darth_SMITTIUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    AOTC was certainly NOT boring in the least. Brodie said that the middle section didn't build to a climax, I couldn't disagree more. Upon seeing this movie, and the middle section in particular, I could FEEL the tension building up. I could see it in the actors' faces and here it in their lines. The music slowly built up to a crescendo and then WHAM a big fight!

    This is Lucas strong point, making movies work. Everyone is so critical and they love picking Lucas apart. SW is like the United States, the individual parts may be small and weaker, but as a unit they stand tall, proud, and powerful. As I have read elsewhere, Lucas' imagination holds the films up. I can appreciate this imagination and totally enjoy these movies! Edge of my seat all the way, and the more times I see it, the more excited I get!

    By the way, it doesn't matter if not everyone likes this movie. Its just a movie afterall! Not everyone is going to like it, but that doesn't mean its bad. Not everybody likes freedom and democracy, but freedom and democracy are certainly not bad!
  5. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    Well, we are somewhat off topic Prof_fink but still I think as some people above who said that the film was boring and cited the Senate scenes I think it is reasonable to discuss them.

    Personally, I think that cutting the Senate scenes down was a direct response to criticsm of TPM, the one response to criticism (if GL does react to criticism) that I wish had never been acted upon. :( Some people say the plot is confusing and Senate scenes would only have helped the overall plot and not hindered it. A discussion between Padme and Dooku about corruption in the Senate is vital for understanding why the Separatists are seceding, save the separatists on Geonosis who do so only for profit. Of course, this theme was covered in TPM but some people seem to have forgotten it. :)


    But back to the "boring" aspect of the film. People say that only the end sequence is not boring. What about the Coruscant Chase? The Jango Fett vs. Obi Wan battle on land and in space? The Tusken Raider Encounter, etc? Oh well. Not everyone is going to like it. But I'm sure glad that I do. :)
  6. Darth_SMITTIUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    Good point, Luke_Clone. In our world today, you can either do what people want you to do (i.e. have Eminem do the soundtrack for SW, put references to oakley's sunglasses and Lexus cars in, and have Leo DiCaprio star as Anakin with a scene of gratuitous nudity), or you can be original and please yourself and a few others. If you do the first choice, then you will be popular for a while, but eventually no one is going to like rap music, sunglasses, Lexus cars, or Leo, so you will fade from history. SW is here to stay because Lucas took the time to do his own thing and be original about it. That is the most un-boring thing in the world, and something that will be appreciated by generations to come!
  7. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Maybe the people who found AOTC boring are very young, or have the attention span of a goldfish? (Estimated to be, I believe, just under 2 minutes)

    Do any scenes in this movie even last for longer than two minutes? Even Sonic the Hedgehog (who makes a cameo) would feel rushed. Pass the Afri Cola.


    While the action sequences are obviously great, I find myself almost craving the 'slower' moments, the big dialogue pieces.

    Yeah, you and a lot of others who are sometimes referred to as "bashers". These slower scenes are sometimes called complications, or rising action, or characterization... one example is Obi-Wan's conversation with Jango in the apartment. There need to be more scenes like those before I can care about the characters, and whatever battles they may have. Since Jango and Boba were fleshed out (they were "shown", not "told"), I am interested in what happens to them. Boy, I am pretty desperate for human drama, huh?

    These action scenes... who is fighting them? A bunch of Jedi that have never been introduced, and whom I never get to know. I know more about Lt. Porkins than I do the grinning dreadlock Jedi. Of course I am going to care more about what happens to Porkins. Do any of the participants in the AOTC battle show emotion, fear, or loss? Even that Ewok felt sorrow for his fallen comrade. OH THE INHUMANITY.


    I WANT to hear Palpatine go over politics in the senate, and see the way he subtly orchestrates the biggest doublecross against the Republic, because I know what happens 20 years down the line.

    So do I, and I want it to be made interesting. Shakespearean dramas feature quite a bit of political machinations, and they are interesting.

    "It's impossible, even for a computer!" scoffs Rick McCallum.

    "Nothing's impossible," answers Lucas, "I used to write good movies about 50's diners, and they're not inherently interesting".


    I WANT to see Anakin and Padme fumble through their early courtship, see how their 'dangerous liaison' builds to what will obviously be a dark climax.

    That might have been pretty good, but what we got is a "tale of teenage obsession" (enter wavy late 60's horror titles) that "you must see to believe". Who empathizes with the creepy, compulsive, and possessive Anakin? And who cares about Padme, human-cyborg relations? Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.

    It's what the PT is all about.

    It's what I wish the PT was.
  8. Darth_Minge Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Thats so very true. Star Wars won't age. They will live a long happy life until the end of the world.

    I show my children Star Wars, and out of all four of them, only one didn't like it at first, but after 3 days of beating him with a golf club, he came around to thinking straight. [face_devil]
  9. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    tokyo:
    I know more about Lt. Porkins than I do the grinning dreadlock Jedi.

    [face_laugh] May Porkins rest in peace. :( But it does remind us though that even some dialogue given to some of the Jedi would've helped. Not ONE other Jedi says a word, other than Mace, Obi, and Yoda. Have Kit and Plo Koon say something. GL, why'd you delete that Plo Koon scene for?

    Of course I am going to care more about what happens to Porkins. Do any of the participants in the AOTC battle show emotion, fear, or loss? Even that Ewok felt sorrow for his fallen comrade. OH THE INHUMANITY.

    Very true. Even I felt sorry for the fallen men in Braveheart, Ryan, and Alexander Nevsky (old Russian film). The camera somberly sweeps over a gruesome and quiet battlefield of untold dead. Ok, I know AOTC is a PG film, but I really feel the lack of Jedi love in it. Just add 3 or 4 Jedi lines and that's it.

    "It's impossible, even for a computer!" scoffs Rick McCallum.

    "Nothing's impossible," answers Lucas, "I used to write good movies about 50's diners, and they're not inherently interesting".


    [face_laugh] :D
  10. prof_frink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 1999
    star 3
    I know more about Lt. Porkins than I do the grinning dreadlock Jedi. Of course I am going to care more about what happens to Porkins.

    How exactly do you know more about Porkins? These nostalgia glasses people wear are frightening, what did he say? I'm going in, and AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!! C'mon...

    Do any of the participants in the AOTC battle show emotion, fear, or loss? Even that Ewok felt sorrow for his fallen comrade. OH THE INHUMANITY

    Well, if memory serves (and it does) Obi-Wan did check a Jedi's pulse, and there did seem to be a look of sorrow on his face...

    I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for, here we have a situation where the Jedi are ridiculously outnumbered, have to fight as fast as they can, and you want them to start talking to each other and stopping to remember their fallen comrades while still in battle???

    If you're going to have a complaint, at least let it be legitimate...
  11. ChewWokka Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2001
    (This is JediDugan, who started this thread. I am at work now, so I have transformed into the mighty ChewWokka!!!) :)

    Wow, I've never gotten 57 replies to one of my threads before!

    In response to the person who said I had "passed judgement" on a film I haven't seen ("Spiderman"). I didn't pass any judgment. I simply stated that I have no interest in seeing it because it dosen't look exciting to me. I like PLENTY of other movies, because they appeal to me (favs this year have been Black Hawk Down, We Were Soldiers, LOTR, Monster's Inc, and others). I know it's hard to believe, but I have no desire to see "Spiderman." I am sorry, don't eat me.

    I think what people don't understand about movies is that you need dialogue, you need to slow the pace of a film down. If all you do is have one scene after another of mindless action you actually hurt the movie in the end.

    Some of you have said that a lack of action isn't what makes people think AOTC is boring, and what makes it boring is that lack of characters we care about.

    Personally I cared alot about the characters. I mean, even if you haven't seen the OT you can tell everything's going to hell and nobody realizes it. That was the emotional drive of the movie for me. Definately not boring.
  12. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    Oh so Episode II is BORING now amidst the horrid acting, horrid dialogue, horrid everything else?

    Episode II had more action than Spider-Man and that's NOT me being biased- AOTC actually did have a LOT more action.

    I wonder if people know what action scenes are anymore.

    You can say anything you want. You can say Episode II had bad dialogue, acting, whatever. But you cannot say it was boring. You just cannot.
  13. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    I'm afraid they can, Pooja. :(

    "Have Kit and Plo Koon say something. GL, why'd you delete that Plo Koon scene for?"

    It's nice to know we agree on something Johnny boy (meant in the best way possible) :). I wonder if Lucas had left that in if he would have been able to keep the score in tact during the arena sequence? Oh well, I guess we may never know.
  14. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    How exactly do you know more about Porkins? These nostalgia glasses people wear are frightening, what did he say? I'm going in, and AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!! C'mon...

    More dialogue than I see for any Jedi though, huh? Exactly my point. Even a line or two would have helped immensely. Porkins has a few more lines, plus we see his death (important). The only Jedi death I remember is the guy that Jango shot (good shot Jango), and I don't remember seeing that Jedi at any point before that. So who cares who he was.

    Or, maybe I just am wearing my NOSTALGIA GLASSES.

    Well, if memory serves (and it does) Obi-Wan did check a Jedi's pulse, and there did seem to be a look of sorrow on his face...

    There need to be more scenes like that. There aren't enough.

    I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for, here we have a situation where the Jedi are ridiculously outnumbered, have to fight as fast as they can, and you want them to start talking to each other and stopping to remember their fallen comrades while still in battle???

    Hmmm... I don't remember any scenes in the Death Star trench where Luke starts reminiscing about Biggs. But there is a scene right after Biggs dies when Luke displays a solemn expression while we hear the Force Theme. I'm sure you've seen war movies where unnamed soldiers speak, shout, and die, on the battlefield. Not in AOTC.

    If you're going to have a complaint, at least let it be legitimate...

    So my complaint is illegitimate then? Maybe, maybe not, but you'll notice it's not littered with condescending platitudes about "nostalgia glasses".
  15. Mystik64 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    AOTC was brilliant cuase every scene moved the plot forward

    Actually, that just makes every scene utterly utilitarian, not brilliant, at least in my opinion.
  16. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I didn't find AOTC boring. There were some spots that dragged, as in all the movies.

    People complained that there wasn't enough action in TPM. AOTC had more action and now they're complaining that the "slower" moments work better.

    Bottom line: Lucas can't possibly please everyone. No matter what he did, he'd be slammed. He'll be slammed for putting "too much action" in a movie, or for putting "too little." People have what I think is an inflated opinion of the OT and look at it through rose-colored glasses, overlooking the faults that they find unforgivable in the PT.

    If I were Lucas, I'd make Episode III like this:

    "Star Wars" logo appears on the screen.

    "Episode III" appears on the screen.

    George Lucas walks on.

    George Lucas flips the bird at the audience.

    George Lucas walks off.
  17. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
    This is amazing...I've officially heard EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE COMPLAINT about AOTC there is. No wait...watch. Tomorrow something new will come up. ;)

    Isn't this why I almost left TF.N completely? I still am searching for a Star Wars forum where I can intelligently discuss the latest Star Wars film's characters, plot points, and foreshadowing without having to sift through reasons why it did/didn't suck. Do you people understand an opinion, and its difference from fact?

    As for the topic, the very first thing my MOTHER said to me when we left the theater was "how on earth can anybody say that's just a boring sappy love story with no action?"
  18. jedi-jeff Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 3
    I did not have a problem with the "lack of emotion" over the fallen Jedi in the arena. However, I can see where people are coming from that did not like this part of the movie. This scene is still not boring.



  19. Meatypants Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    "I know more about Lt. Porkins than I do the grinning dreadlock Jedi. Of course I am going to care more about what happens to Porkins."

    "Porkins has a few more lines, plus we see his death (important). The only Jedi death I remember is the guy that Jango shot (good shot Jango), and I don't remember seeing that Jedi at any point before that. So who cares who he was."

    You're hanging by a thread on this argument. So let me get this straight. We've spent all this time with the Jedi. We've seen them as children in development. We've seen Anakin and Obi-Wan bonding. We see Obi-Wan, Anakin and Mace obviously hurt by the loss of Jedi life in this battle. But you can't relate to the idea of Jedi dying unless it's one that you saw before in a Council chair or something?! You're above having compassion for random Jedi because they don't have the depth of dialogue that Porkins has?!? Yeah, I'd forgotten how well developed those Rebels were! I'd forgotten the bond I had with Porkins!


    Do any of the participants in the AOTC battle show emotion, fear, or loss? Even that Ewok felt sorrow for his fallen comrade. OH THE INHUMANITY

    So you've got Obi-Wan checking his amigo's pulse. You've got Anakin ragefully pouncing Dooku for the Jedi he'd killed that day. You've got Kit Fisto's angry, vengeful closeup in the following battle. Mace is obviously angry when he proclaims that he refuses to be taken hostage. You've got Yoda's dejected look after all of the events, as well as his insistence on keeping Dooku from leaving the planet and gaining more allies. And don't forget young Boba's moment.

    I'm sorry if you don't consider these emotions. I guess you want them all to start breaking down into the wanky Michael Bay-like theatrics of FOTR, with 10 minute slow motion weeping scenes, forced tears, and high-pitched sounds of agony that make the Wilhelm scream sound butch.
  20. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    I guess you want them all to start breaking down into the wanky Michael Bay-like theatrics of FOTR, with 10 minute slow motion weeping scenes, forced tears, and high-pitched sounds of agony that make the Wilhelm scream sound butch.

    Well, now that you mention it...yes. I was very much affected by Gandalf's "death" (those who read the book will understand the quotation mark ;)) than I can ever be in any SW death, thanks to PJ taking the time to show how devastated the Fellowship was (especially Frodo). Even Qui Gon's, though Obi Wan's "Noooo!!!" was superb. And oh yeah, Shmi's was also great, because we are given time to see it's impact on Anakin.

    Just MHO :D
  21. Meatypants Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    "Well, now that you mention it...yes. I was very much affected by Gandalf's "death" (those who read the book will understand the quotation mark ) than I can ever be in any SW death, thanks to PJ taking the time to show how devastated the Fellowship was (especially Frodo)."

    You fell for that Bruckheimer, manipulative manufactured "emotion?" Good for you. Hope you're looking forward to the next Bay/Bruckheimer epic. Because it's the exact same thing.
  22. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, I fell for it. Yay for me! It's called enjoying a film, and surprise, I enjoy other films besides Star Wars. And proud of that fact.

    What's the next epic, BTW? If it's good, I'll go see it.

    [face_mischief]
  23. Meatypants Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    BTW, I have some real estate you might be interested in. :)

    I hear the next manipulative Bay masterpiece is a very slickly edited, slo-mo, teary-eyed epic about a squirrel crossing the street. Or was Peter Jackson directing that? Same difference.
  24. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    I guess you want them all to start breaking down into the wanky Michael Bay-like theatrics of FOTR, with 10 minute slow motion weeping scenes, forced tears, and high-pitched sounds of agony that make the Wilhelm scream sound butch.

    Actually, why not? :D I'd like to see if it may have worked. Remember Dorme also did this, and in some people's opinions, she conveyed more there than Padme ever did in two films combined. [face_laugh]

    And as for that FOTR moment ("Death" of Gandalf) it was very emotional and unforgettable I think. It captured the book well "They collapsed on the mountaintop that morning and weeped long and heavily." (paraprhased) The music was elegiac and even reminded me of Titanic a little bit. I loved the soaring voice at that moment..."The human voice, when used well, can be one of the most powerful musical instruments there is."

    Obviously, we don't need to see the Jedi doing the same exact thing, but just a little more poignancy could help, so we can sympathize with them a little more. Unfortunately, the Jedi seemed a little too distant to me.

    [edit -- Btw, Meatypants, take the name Michael Bay away from that example. Bay is a total hack. (Only the Rock being a good movie) 8-} And that FOTR moment shouldn't be compared with Bay (honestly, when did Bay use a scene like this?)....it should be compared to Spielberg or something, if you're going to compare.)
  25. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    JW, I don't mind him using the Michael Bay comparison. I like his films. And a whole host of films from other directors.

    Obviously, we don't need to see the Jedi doing the same exact thing, but just a little more poignancy could help, so we can sympathize with them a little more. Unfortunately, the Jedi seemed a little too distant to me.

    Well, not the nameless Jedis. Just the main characters.
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