AOTC Chapter 12: Jedi Archives DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Oct 12, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next 8 months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 12: Jedi Archives
    DISCUSSION: October 13, 2004 - October 17, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 33:47 - 34:48

    Synopsis:
    In the Jedi Library, Obi-Wan stares at a bust of Count Dooku. Madame Jocasta Nu comes over to Obi-Wan and asks if he needs assistance. Obi-Wan says that he's looking for a planet called Kamino. They go to a table in the middle of the library. On the small viewscreen, a map of the entire galaxy is in view. The map shifts to the Rishi Maze, but where Kamino is supposed be shows only space on the map. Obi-Wan believes the archives are incomplete. Jocasta Nu tells Obi-Wan that if an item does not appear in the archives then it doesn't exist. She goes away and helps a Jedi child. Obi-Wan stares at the screen. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    I liked the scene in the library. It's short and gets right to the point. The blue effect shows the Jedi as peacekeepers as opposed to Palpatine's apartment, which is red.

    Obi-Wan staring at Count Dooku's bust had great foreshadowing potential, however they did cut out "The Lost Twenty." Then when they go over to the map and trying to find Kamino, it's like the Jedi are supposed to have all the information of the galaxy and they're missing Kamino.

    Jocasta Nu was good as the librarian. I think it's obvious that she's protective of the library or is hiding something when Obi-Wan says that the records are incomplete. I also like Lucas' son as a padawan who needs help. It was a good way for Jocasta Nu to get away from Obi-Wan and not lose her temper.

    Short scene that adds more mystery. I wish the archives scene could have lasted longer. Coruscant is expanded so much in such a confined timeframe.
  2. lovelucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    jocasta nu's attitude reflects the jedis' own: they have been blinded by a certain arrogance - if the information is not there it didn't exist/we would have known (kamino, etc.). i do think it's unfortunate that dooku and the lost 20 discussion was deleted - would have provided a small backstory to dooku and why padme suspected him of the assassination plot - remember when mace said it couldn't have been dooku? i love the "set" ccg, or not, of the library - it's so detailed and picturesque plus obiwan doing research and where it goes for answers is another revelation on how the jedi operate.
  3. Panakas_Dawg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    The mystery begins.

    I think Lucas nailed this scene perfectly. While the Saber Dart from the previous scene sets Obi Wan's detective thread in motion, this scene really lets you know something is seriously afoot that no one comprehends.

    I am reminded of the library scene in All The President's Men.

    As 'perfect' as I think this scene is in its quiet understatement and less-is-more approach, I do wish some of the deleted information had been left in to flesh out the backstory a little.

    But, as is, it is (in my mind) when the real mystery plot thread opens up and sucks Obi Wan in.

    Btw, what are the qualifications for working the library? Does one have to be a Jedi, as only a Jedi can access that stuff? Or are only Jedi allowed higher-level access, and any public citizen may access the library itself for research?

    Was Jocasta Nu just a public employee or Jedi? Can anyone imagine Jedi Jocasta in her prime? Slicing Gundarks with a green lightsaber? LOL
  4. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    I love the set of the library - I think it as a miniature, and they did a fantastic job with it. One thing always confused me, though - how do those electronic/holographic books work? I've always been interested in this - is it explained anywhere?

    It's a shame about the loss of the Lost 20 discussion, but it's not entirely necessary, as we already know Dooku left the Order - it would have been interesting information, though.
  5. DarthLazious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2003
    star 4
    That is one of the top ten best scenes from AOTC to date.
  6. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2002
    star 5
    My computer had been broken for the last month and a half so I'ved missed out on this new series of discussions. Great idea to go chapter by chapter thru the whole film.

    I too really like the library scene. The blue glow that radiates from the shelves is very cool. I also like all the Jedi busts there as well. If you look close you can see an easter egg as there is a bust of George Lucas in one of the shots.

    I like how Dex knows the existence of Kamino and the Jedi do not. It shows that the Jedi are not as smart as they should be.

  7. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus/2014 Celebrity Deadpool Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 7
    The library looked great even if they did borrow the design from a library in Ireland. The bust of Dooku being there really was good foreshadowing, but it was meant to be so much more. The center of discussion for the lost twenty. I just don't think I'll ever understand this cut.

    Madame Jocasta Nu was perfect though. Just the way a Jedi Librarian should be. Old and arrogant. :p
  8. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    She wasn't arrogant, per se, more snappy than anything.
  9. Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Was Jocasta Nu just a public employee or Jedi?

    She was a Jedi, she has a lightsaber which indicates her active service even though she's now the archivist.

    I love the set of the library - I think it as a miniature, and they did a fantastic job with it. One thing always confused me, though - how do those electronic/holographic books work? I've always been interested in this - is it explained anywhere?


    I'd imagine they'd work like a pop-up book, but with holograms. I haven't read that much of Jude Watson to tell you accurately.

    If you look close you can see an easter egg as there is a bust of George Lucas in one of the shots.

    There's also one of Yoda, I saw the Dooku bust and the Yoda bust at Magic of Myth in Sydney :D

    also, I noticed that Jocasta Nu resembles a Hogwarts teacher, yes i did bring this up several months back but some people may not be aware if it.

    [image=http://www.mugglenet.com/images/still-mcgonagallstairs.jpg]

    McGonagall/Jocasta Nu: You doubt the accuracy of our archives, Master Kenobi. That will be ten points from Gryffindor!
    Kenobi: That's unfair! It's chipping away at the points when we beat Dooku and the Slytheins at Quiddich last week.
    McGonagall/Jocasta Nu: Quiet or it'll be another twenty.
  10. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    The library and the whole mystery feel was awesome
  11. Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    It gives the whole impression that the Jedi are not just warriors, but there's researchgers as well as healers and other things.
  12. LadyZaraMarta Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2004
    star 5
    Hi. I've worked in a library when I was a teenager. Jocasta's attitude is that of many librarians. They do dislike when they are proven incorrect . I learned to keep my mouth shut. When a patron would approached one of us(pages, we were called) I instructed the patron to go to the librarian at the desk.
  13. Hades2021 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2003
    star 4
    I remember the first time I saw AOTC and this scene I was like, "That bitch!" about Jocasta Nu.
    JediFan215 likes this.
  14. Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    she's a librarian, don't ever accuse one of being dumb

    I'm getting the impression that GL was ticked off byt a librarian in school so he put her in for a joke
  15. Orionsangel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2004
    star 4
    The Jedi Library is cozy
  16. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Ya know, maybe it's just me, but Dooku and Yoda have proven old Jedi can kick serious arse. I'd actually like to see what Jocasta's capable of... I'd bet she'd be a hard master though... hoo...
    This is a good strong point about the scene. It let's your mind wander about the side stuff and let's your mind run around in the galaxy again.
  17. Panakas_Dawg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    No late fees in this library, I bet. :cool:

    I love scenes like this because they give you enough info, but they don't overexplain or account for everything in the background. There's so much visually presented here in such a short amount of time and, it's true, it *does* let your mind wander around the whole GFFA.

    Yoda: Padawan Jocasta - Beware the Dark Side!
    Jocasta: Is the Dark Side stronger?

    ;)
  18. Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Remember Dex's comment about knowledge and wisdom? Here we can see an example
  19. Neo_Skywalker24 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Thank you, Moleman, for your fine efforts disecting each scene thus far. I am new to the board as well and reviewed all prior 11 discussions yesterday before watching the First Act of the movie. What a great way to countdown the time towards Episode III!

    Bravo to everyone who has added insights regarding the scenes also. I find your thoughts on the artistic nature of the scenes (visual & audio) very interesting.

    As for this scene, I concur. The first in a series of short stories to start Act 2 which builds on the foundation of the core story. I need to look a bit closer to see the GL mug! Anyway, thanks again!
  20. Jedimancer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2004
    star 2
    I like the scene ok. Good catch on the color scheme Moleman; I don't think I would have thought of that: Palpatine's red room=feeling of aggression, blue library=friendly, comfortable environment. Dittos on the comments about the cut Lost 20 dialogue. I think it really would have helped for the build-up to the appearance of Dooku. I think it shows how much we all sympathize with and like Obi-wan in how ticked off we all are with the librarian for dissing him. Do you think he ever went back to her and showed her some photos of Kamino and gloated, "TOLD YOU SO!!!" Anyway, the librarian thing is also a good way of giving the audience a concrete example of "Jedi arrogance."
  21. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    I agree. Jocasta Nu did come off being arrogant. Obi-Wan did have reason to believe that there was something up with the Archive Computer, but i really don't think it was completely necessary for her to simply blow him off like that.
  22. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    McGonagall/Jocasta Nu: You doubt the accuracy of our archives, Master Kenobi. That will be ten points from Gryffindor!
    Kenobi: That's unfair! It's chipping away at the points when we beat Dooku and the Slytheins at Quiddich last week.
    McGonagall/Jocasta Nu: Quiet or it'll be another twenty.


    Lol!!! A Hogwarts student with a beard and a mullet would be very disturbing ... ;)

    Jocastu Nu actually reminds me more of Madam Pince. :D
  23. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). AOTC Chapter 13: "Encouraged to Love" DISCUSSION will be made available 12:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
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