AOTC Chapter 14: Yoda and the Younglings DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Oct 22, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next 8 months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 14: Yoda and the Younglings
    DISCUSSION: October 23, 2004 - October 27, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 36:04 - 38:23

    Synopsis:
    Back in the Jedi Temple, Obi-Wan walks to a training room for younglings. Eleven younglings are practicing their lightsaber skills with remote seekers guided by Yoda. Obi-Wan enters the room. Yoda tells the younglings to stop and greet Master Obi-Wan. They do. Yoda asks what help he can be. Obi-Wan says he's trying to find a planet not found in the Jedi Archives. Yoda tells Liam to close the shades and he does. The younglings and master Jedi center around a map reader. A multi-demensional star chart appears around the room. Obi-Wan shows where Kamino is supposed to be. One of the younglings says that the planet was erased from the archive memory. Yoda comments on the brightness of a child's mind. The shade rise. Yoda and Obi-Wan discuss how this could deletion is possible. Yoda says the he'll meditate to solve the mystery. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    The chapter with the younglings is wonderful. A great soundtrack and a real touching scene makes this one of the most standout transition scenes in the movie.

    It's good to see some Jedi children and to see everyone is trained the Great Warrior himself. So Obi-Wan did not lie. It's difficult to believe that a child can come up with such an analysis of the problem. Of course, Liam is for Liam Neeson of course. Nice small reference there. And that the Shaak Ti species youngling is named Ashla from an early draft of ANH. It's good to see how pure innocence of children is played in the mystery.

    Yoda and Obi-Wan are excellent in this scene. This scene shows no need for the atrium scene in New Assignments. I like how Yoda jumps to conclusions and pinpoints that only a Jedi could have removed the archives. In a way, it cements some truth due to Yoda's wisdom and in another way, the cloud of the dark side is working just as strong. The interaction between the two Jedi is well done.

    One scene I enjoy watching even though I have a grudge against that punk Liam. The humor, the mystery, the seriousness. This is one great chapter to enjoy.
  2. BauconBatista Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2004
    star 4
    One scene I enjoy watching even though I have a grudge against that punk Liam.

    [face_plain]





































    [face_laugh] 8-}

    This is EASILY one of the best scenes in all of Episode II. Yoda + Little Kids = RATINGS
  3. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    Yoda teasing Obi Wan about losing his planet is one of the classic SW lines. LOL The Clan is cool and makes me wish I grew up in AGFFA.
  4. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Bueautiful.

    Really reminded me of the ESB-Yoda (not the crazy version) and just awed me, made me feel like a child again.

    This scene and the final Yoda one convinced me that CGI Yoda works.

    Plus it really shows us that he IS Obi-Wans master
  5. Tatooine_Fireman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 4
    From the first time I saw the movie, this was my favorite scene.
    I love how Yoda interacts with the kids; making jokes and being very patient and friendly. This behavior reminds me of how he acted in ESB.
    I also like the training droids, it connects the PT with the OT, in a very subtle way.
  6. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    I liked Yoda teasing Obi-Wan and really getting a glipse of the younglings training.
  7. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    I think this scene felt more natural because I kept remembering Grover (voiced by Frank Oz) from Sesame Street interacting with the kids. :p

    Good scene. Adding more to the mystery. Though if you remember the meeting in Palpatine's office earlier, a suspect is not hard to come up with. ;)
  8. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    I really like this scene :)
    A very calm, peaceful scene. We get a handful of these before the galaxy starts to fall apart. Unfortunately, it starts to tremble at the end of this scene :(
    I like how they snuck in Ashla, and I wish they snuck in Bogan somewhere too :( Even Bendu :)
  9. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    I LOVE the hologram of the galaxy, and the way John Williams scores it. It's like being in a 3D planetarium, only with Yoda and Obi-Wan as your guides - doesn't get much cooler than that. :D There's a moment in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban that really reminded me of this scene, with Harry and Lupin in a room full of floating planets and stars - it's beautiful visual imagery.

    Seeing the Jedi Younglings training with the training remotes is great - I suppose we can assume that, rather than finding the remote on the Falcon as in the radio drama, Obi-Wan probably had one in his hut, and took it with him to begin Luke's training, since they seem to be standard Jedi equipment. The animation and acting of Yoda is also perfect in this scene, and his "Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has" is great. The only thing that gets me about this scene is how naive Obi-Wan and Yoda are, that they don't suspect that the data has been erased. I guess that just sums up a little bit of the arrogance of the Jedi, that they don't see their own flaws so much - Yoda himself said that earlier in the movie - "too sure of themselves they are, even the older, more experienced ones". We saw this with Jocasta Nu as well. It shows how short-sighted they are.

    I think the "Truly wonderful the mind of a child is" line is great - it completely sums up the appeal of these movies, and their audience - kids and kids-at-heart. :D
  10. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    I LOVE the hologram of the galaxy, and the way John Williams scores it.

    I remember having the same reaction - the music seemed so much different from traditional Star Wars.
  11. master_organa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2004
    star 5
    Probaly one of my favorite scenes.
  12. Obi-Wan2001 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2001
    star 4
    I like how Yoda jumps to conclusions and pinpoints that only a Jedi could have removed the archives. In a way, it cements some truth due to Yoda's wisdom and in another way, the cloud of the dark side is working just as strong.

    He wasn't jumping to conclusions, Yoda was right about that. It's meant to make us think, if only a Jedi, then who? Later, at the end of the film, we have Dooku mentioning the Jedi Archives to Mace. It reminds us of that earlier plot point, and it becomes clear that it was Dooku, who was a Jedi at the time, that erased the files.

    Anyway, cool scene. Good Obi-Wan and Yoda interaction, and it's really the only time Yoda is lighthearted in the whole film. And great John Williams music.
  13. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Obviously we know it's a Jedi (save that for ROTS forum), but taken what we know up to this point in the movie, it's difficult to determine what is what. Padme said in Palpatine's Office (Chapter 4) that Count Dooku was behind the assassination, but the Jedi didn't believe it. Here, we have a presumption at best, unless Yoda was actually in that archive room when the files were erased, I still stand by my opinion. This however contradicts his thinking when Qui-Gon reveals the he believes Anakin is the chosen one and Yoda says that Qui-Gon presumes this to be true. It's hard to decipher complex feelings and emotions when there is so much that is clouded. This chapter shows that very well.
  14. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    the scene works on so many levels. with his questioning tactics, yoda took on the dimensions of socrates. "only a jedi could have" = perhaps indication of not only clouds obscuring other truths but perhaps a bit of (rightfully assumed) arrogance which blocks any consideration of others? the interaction between yoda and the younglings just adds so much to the legacy aspects of the jedi - and we realize they all began this way, mace, obiwan, dooku, qui gon, everyone. visually a beautiful scene but troubling as the mystery develops. this is also rather poignant: we have identified with the younglings which will magnify the horror of their slaughter by our former good guy. i also think the scene reveals a certain detachment by obiwan to the children - he has learned well the lessons of the jedi.
  15. Tatooine_Fireman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 4
    the interaction between yoda and the younglings just adds so much to the legacy aspects of the jedi - and we realize they all began this way, mace, obiwan, dooku, qui gon, everyone.

    Agreed, lovelucas. I think this also explains why Obi-Wan called Yoda his master in ESB, though he was trained by Qui-Gon in TPM.
  16. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Yoda wasn't exactly naive :b
    He was testing out the younglings. Else why would he have said the padawan was correct if he himself didn't know the answer?
  17. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    TWD is right on the nose. Yoda knew why Kamino hadn't appeared. He was testing the younglings. The moment reminds me of most classrooms when a teacher asks the class a question and no one responds for fear of being a know it all. Same type of scene in HP, when Hermoine tries to answer the questions directed to Potter in DADA class with Snape.

    BTW: How is it convienent on the training veranda to have it turn into a map room as well? Do all chambers in the temple follow suit?
  18. b-wingmasterburnz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 3
    "we have identified with the younglings which will magnify the horror of their slaughter by our former good guy."

    I noticed that too. I tried not to get too attached to the children because they'll probably all be killed in ROTS.
  19. rodman9866 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    This chapter easily goes in my book as one of my favorite within the ENTIRE set of episodes. In just a few short minutes we get SO many questions answered from the OT; Yoda DID teach Obi-Wan and for a time he IS his master, we see that the tools for training a jedi did not progress from ANH with the training probes.....and i like that they kept it the same because my philosophy is if you find a training method that works then stick to it....don't mess with the process or you won't get the same results. The only thing that threw me for a loop was that Yoda said "only a jedi could do this, but later he said he must meditate on who it could be. i guess that it does makes sense just like if i knew a problem at work i knew what group generated the error i just would need some time to find out who exactly it was. the overall feel to this chapter is operfect i wasn't trying to analyze it any deeper than what was presented. great job on the scene and the music in the backround!
  20. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    This was my Mom's favorite scene......for whats its worth :)
  21. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    ATTENTION all CBC posters:

    Starting on Thursday, October 28, 2004, I will be adding an additonal CBC to the postings. Over on Classic Trilogy, the ANH Chapter Discussion will start. The dates will coincide with the prequel posting dates and it will be the same format as now.

    Check my sig for further details. Feel free to PM me your questions or concerns about this unexpected turn of events.

    -Moleman1138
    Host of CBC for TPM, AOTC and Classic Trilogy forums.

    Don't forget that there is so much to discuss in this chapter.
  22. Jedimancer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2004
    star 2
    Yeah, I really like this sequence and think it's one of the best of the "quiet moments" in the movie. I agree with those who think this scene basically resolves the "Obiwan's master" question. No continuity errors. Makes sense.
    As is usual with the SW movies, the music and visuals are really pretty(like the stars-and-heavenly-chorus combo).
    AOTC really does do quite a bit to flesh out Yoda's character and make more connections to the OT Yoda. I love how he develops over the course of the saga. In TPM we just see him as this funny-looking-yet-incredibly-wise little man who is troubled by the mysterious events that are occuring around him. Then, in AOTC, we see him as (a)still super-wise and even more troubled (b)very warm, and loving and kind, and(in this scene) also possessing a nice little sense of humor (c)at the end: SUPER WARRIOR YODA!!! Now, we haven't seen him in Episode III yet, but I'm guessing we'll get some great Yoda moments in that one. And then, in Episode V, we get to see him again, and I really like how there's a change in him. He's still super-wise and has an interesting sense of humor, but now he's also somewhat bitter and pessimistic, changed by all the horrors he's seen.
    Anyways, enough with my Yoda-character-development rant. I, like that earlier poster, was annoyed at first by the fact that Obi couldn't have just come up with, on his own, that the planet had been erased from the archives. It seems so DUH!!! But, on closer observation, this works with the whole Jedi Arrogance thing.
  23. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Love this scene, Yoda is so good with kids
  24. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    I agree with all of you. Isn't it strange that an easy going chapter like that creates all these emotions? It's also very good that many chapters in the movie were used to give us a better idea of the Order's organization. I think we needed that visualization.A friend of mine identified Yoda's behaviour here as a mirroring of the man who created Aikido(I do not remember his name) with the children and the humor and all but I doupt that was intentional.
  25. earlchinna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2004
    star 2
    imo there is nothing to explain , this scene is simply magical, pure star wars feeling....I think it's one of the best scene in the pt, it just has the power to make me smile! "truly wonderful..." is the kind of very simple and true dialogue in the style of Lucas or spielberg
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