AOTC Chapter 15: Return to Naboo DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Oct 27, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 15: Return to Naboo
    DISCUSSION: October 28, 2004 - November 1, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 38:24 - 39:23

    Synopsis:
    The refugee ship lands on Naboo in a spaceport covered with much plant life. A speeder bus then flies toward the main square of Theed, the capital city of Naboo and docks. Anakin and Padme followed by R2-D2 walks across a bridge with luggage in hand. Padme contemplates being queen at such a young age and didn't believe that she was old enough or ready. Anakin tells Padme that he's aware of her commitment and service to her people and knows that Naboo tried to change the constitution to keep her in office longer than two terms. Padme explains that that's not how democracy works. She says that since Queen Jamilla asked her to become Senator of Naboo, it was something she could not refuse. Anakin agrees with the queen's decision. They continue to walk towards the palace. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    Here's a chapter that's completely unnecessary, but I still like. It's a good transition scene. If they just ended up in the queen's palace from just being from space, it would have been just plain stupid.

    This is Padme's chapter in my opinion. She delivers so well and is so TPM-esque in this chapter. It's good to see that even as a senator she still has to carry her own bags and isn't someone who is so self-centered. She understands and respects the policies of Naboo. As many can see she was pretty much forced into being queen. She wanted to do what was right, but she doubted herself.

    My only question is if Padme would have stayed on as queen. Forget term limits. Forget policy. She wants to continue to rule Naboo, would she have turned out like Palpatine and became an evil tyrant. Could that pure goodness turned to evil?

    There's a lot missing in this chapter. What I miss most is Anakin's line. "I feel that the galaxy will change in the most profound ways." Good chapter, not needed, but still fun to watch.
  2. Malikail Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2004
    star 4
    She delivers so well and is so TPM-esque in this chapter.

    imo that's the problem with her in this movie, in all her scenes up till just before the arena battle she is exactly the same as she was in TPM.

    no change development or growth, i like this chapter for many of the same reasons you do, but i think it was another missed opportunity to contrast her to her TPM character and show some differences.

    there is no way she'd turn out like palpantine imo.

    i have always believed he got into politics for one reason, to rise through it and take over the system.

    so no her motives would never become like his, her heart never like his, but she could do just as much harm.

    in the name of all the good she could do, if she stayed on, she'd probably accrue more and more power to herself.

    blinded by her own ideals in the long run she'd probably do as much harm to naboo as he did to the senate and republic as a form of government.

    not the war and death of course, but she'd become a tyrant in her own right, sorta like Political Correctness gone nuts.

    not that she is PC to that degree it's just a compairison.
  3. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    The chapter does seem to serve another purpose though. She was a Queen in TPM and somehow the audience has to understand that she was not a monarch, that the Republic is not a loose assosiation of different forms of goverments in the galaxy, but a true democracy. The chapter serves, I feel, in showing the freedom and level of politicaly mature nations. The peace loving planet of Naboo becomes the democratic peace loving planet of Naboo in the democratic etc....

    concluding: Queen=President
  4. Nightowl TFN Timetales Writer

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    "I wanted to emphasize the point that the Republic was a democracy. I thought I'd made it clear in TPM that Padme was an elected official, but that point seemed to go right by everybody. Probably because I used the title 'Queen', which suggested an inherited position of power. However, I had intended it as a designation of a ruler, like 'President'. I only used the Princess/Queen/Knight terminology because I was harking back to King Arthur and other romantic periods.
    "This time I wanted to reestablish the fact that Padme had been elected as Queen, served her two terms in office, and then stepped down. It's the opposite of what Palpatine does. His term (as Supreme Chancellor) has run out in the intervening ten years, but he has been 'reluctantly' convinced to stay in office. As we go on, he'll be 'reluctantly' convinced to stay in office even longer (and take on more and more power). I wanted Padme's character to be the example of what leaders should do, which is serve their term -- then leave. The idea on Naboo is that you do your service when you're very young (12-22). Then you retire, have a family, and live out the rest of your life. Padme is an exception because now she's 24. She did her service but then she became a Senator because the new Queen asked her to."

    -- George Lucas, Mythmaking: Behind the Scenes of Attack of the Clones
  5. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    Not that I complain, but do you read EVERYTHING that has to do with star wars Nightowl?GL was a little slow on this one. He can't use the dedicated for life knight and the elected Queen and expect everybody to instantly know what happened.
  6. Malikail Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2004
    star 4
    ya know that's an interesting quote from lucas.

    in my case it didn't go over my head i caught it dead on, but in this scene it didn't seem to carry the weight he wanted it to.

    very interesting.

    maybe it's the delivery, she seems to be lecturing anakin, and the scene came off as a bit flat.

    it almost seemed like their conversation on the way there was filler, designed just to catch us up with more detail on what she's been doing since her term ended.

    i'm not sure why but the fact that they were discussing a democracy and how the political system is designed to work, her getting on with her life after she got out of office, just didn't seem to be the thrust.

    i will say that it gave me the distinct impression anakin was trying to court a girl who wasn't interested in him, so in that way it came off well.

    it's also very nice looking and as with TPM there is so much to take in visualy in every scene it almost becomes distracting in a good way.
  7. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    It is after all one of the most beautiful palaces ever built.

    It did not give me the impression of courting though, it seemed mildly tenced, as if she was trying to put the assasination attempt out of her mind. Their jouney came at an end and in many ways she had nothing more to do but wait for Ben and his answers. Anakin seems to be happy just being beside her. I doupt he would notice a rancor on a bicycle.
  8. hansen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2003
    star 4
    Here's a chapter that's completely unnecessary,

    I wouldn't say that. I think this is one ofe th emore essential chapters wehenit comes to the character of Padme and our understanding of her.
  9. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    Maybe its just in there to pay homage to Lawrence of Arabia.
  10. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    I'm not saying that this should have been completely axed in the final cut, but it provides some backstory that is here or there. She decribes the system, she says about her uncertainties as queen at such at young age and being asked to become senator. Yes, it provides more information on Padme, but the way it was chopped down from the deleted scene is understandable, but not in the best mannner.

    I think the whole queen role was nothing but an escape hatch to have her come down to earth in the final two films in be the arena of the Senate. Anyways, storywise, who would be Senator of Naboo.

    I think it would have worked either way. If it was hereditarial. Naboo would be one of the last planets to have bloodlines over democracy. Padme would be forced into the position after the murder of her parents. She would actually have to work to gain respect of her people throughout the first film. That of course would change the ending, with Padme being crowned queen of Naboo.
  11. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    No, the queen role of Padme was the only way to make her as important a character in TPM as Anakin, instead of simply being introduced as the future mother of his children. And had not the democratic axis of Naboo, and the republic in general, been made clear in this chapter,then from a governing system point of view, the emperor is not that different.
  12. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    I actually prefer the unedited version of this scene. Not that I feel they did a bad job of editing it down, but I liked the full information provided.
    Another one I feel should've been left in is Padme's family. Since it was deleted, I'll take time to discuss both these scenes and their ramifications for Padme's character here.
    In them, they show that Anakin isn't just some creepy obssessed stalker who Padme's trying to forget. If all these scenes had been left in, from the transport scene to the picnic scene, we would have seen Padme was actually falling for Anakin quite on her own terms. But because of whatever number of reasons, people feel more comfortable labeling Anakin as a creepy stalker even though Padme quite willingly pledges her love to him and marries him. So while we're taking ourselves out of the fairy-tale aspect and applying real world logic (in the case of calling Anakin a stalker much like one could call Prince Charming a pervert for kissing a sleeping girl) one must also apply the fact that no girl would pledge their love to noe marry their stalker. If she truly felt threatened by Anakin, Padme's certainly a strong/smart enough person to contact the Jedi council and say 'Look, this guy's really creeping me out, send someone else.'
    But, if we had the full scenes, I think people could more readily buy Padme's love. I bought it no problem, because the essential key to anything SW is to not overthink it. Once you do, no matter what happy bandage you slap on it, it will fall apart.
    But anyway, those are just my thoughts.
  13. Malikail Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2004
    star 4
    But, if we had the full scenes, I think people could more readily buy Padme's love

    this perfectly echos my thoughts, though i've never seen the unedited version of this scene i have seen the family scene and can definately say it was needed.

    one of the worst storyline edits i think GL ever did, usualy i like his edits.

    i am 100% convinced he worried far too much about the length of this movie, especialy given how much was going on in it.

    he should have just let us have the whole thing, what's an extra 15 to 20 minutes tops?

    usualy he looks for a way to get from point a to point b faster when he cuts stuff.

    in this film though he has so much going on he doesn't need to go from a to b, he needs to get to c, and he does, but he skipped over b.

  14. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    I miss the extended arrival. This is where you understand Padme's beliefs and motives. Even though I think they're stretched to some degree.

    GL would have cut the film down another 5-7 minutes to stay under 2:20. The spaceport moment we needed. Why do they even need to go to the palace and Theed. (To confirm Padme's from danger to Jamilla) What's wrong with just going her parent's house.

    I like the scene, but wish for a different direction in moving the story along.
  15. dee_dee24m Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2003
    star 2
    I like this scene. Sure it's uneneccesary (the story of Padme's political life isn't what we were dying to hear about), and i'm glad it was re-edited for the finished movie, but it's a peaceful, gentle scene with the two of them actually speaking warmly and naturally. After this, their conversation will be strained, forced, melodramatic and a little (i sdaid a little!) unconvincing.... but not here.

    I give this the thumbs up!
  16. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    wascal - i like what you say and how you say it. and because there's been complaints about the too-rapid developed love story, i think the scene provides evidence of a growing relationship. plus as mentioned before there needs to be a pathway to the palace and discussion of padme's backstory. feels really natural, not forced at all either by the actors or the dialogue. and...reference to lawrence of arabia? are we talking head gear? can't find any political relevancy. i sure do remember the music, tho - lawrence's composer and the orchestration was top notch (wasn't williams)
  17. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    For AoTC and Lawrence of Arabia connection....

    go here

    http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/tfn.cgi?storyID=13173
  18. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    It's always nice when you see people agree with you. It means somewhere you made some sense lol
  19. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
  20. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    The extended version of this scene felt better to me though I suppose the message was received with what was given.

    I liked the little touch with the Gungans freely standing in Theed. Reminding us that they are friends with the Gungans now.

    On a side note, it was hard to take the scene seriously once again with what Padme was wearing on her head. For TPM, her headresses seemed more ceremonial than anything, but now she was freely wearing them. While some looked okay, others like the one in this scene were just odd looking. :p

  21. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    matthewz - thanks for the lawrence of arabia link - i never spotted that before! david lean and george lucas share a vision for locations - and back to naboo: criticism of costuming here? they're refugees and there's a story behind padme's outfit (the moon pattern) so i think they're both appropriate esp with anakin harkening back to his future son's pancho gear. the backstory of padme establishes that she's done right by her planet while serving as queen and continues to be respected and revered as a leader in the senate, at least by those who elected her. i like very much that democracy is at work here - it contrasts so well with palps dictatorship. and lucas has these themes throughout the saga.
  22. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    I think it's one of Natalie's most beautiful outfits in AOTC. It ties together the costume drama for TPM and AOTC. Complements the last few scenes rather nicely.
  23. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    What I likied about this scen was the obvious tension between Anakin and Padme in Queen Jamilla's court.

    If I were Padme I would want to hit Anakin for imposing on my teritory and embarrasing her in front of the Queen.

    I wonder if she gave him an earful as soon as they were out of hearing.
  24. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    I think she'd already punished him enough with the "not a Jedi" remark in front of everyone ;)
  25. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    That'd be in the next chapter on Tuesday. Audience with the Queen.
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