AOTC Chapter 16: Audience with the Queen DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Nov 1, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 16: Audience with the Queen
    DISCUSSION: November 2, 2004 - November 6, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 39:24 - 40:54

    Synopsis:
    In the Theed Palace Throne Room, Anakin and Padme are before Queen Jamilla, Padme's successor. Artoo waits outside. Padme talks about the Republic is going to be pushed into a civil war due to the conflict with the Separatists. Sio Bibble thinks that's outrageous. He states that there hasn't been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic. Jamilla asks for Padme's opinion. Padme believes that the situation will get worse when the Separatists turn to the Trade Federation or Commerce Guild out of fear. Sio Bibble states that the Republic has done nothing to bring Nute Gunray to justice. Jamilla tries to bring assurance by believing in the Republic. Everyone stands up. Jamilla says that Padme needs to worry about her own safety. Bibble asks Anakin his suggestion. Padme interferes and says that Anakin's a padawan and begins to make up her own mind. Anakin cuts her off. Padme says that she knows what she's doing. Anakin apologizes. Jamilla approves and they walk out of the throne room. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    A short chapter, just reintroducing us to the Theed Palace in a way to make sure Padme's safe. It's a political discussion that starts off well, but ends on a sour note. The chapter helps further the relationship between Anakin and Padme.

    I'm really not that big of a fan of Queen Jamilla. I think Padme is definitely a better queen in making decisions and also a fashion princess. Padme shows weakness in this chapter. She shows her arrogance and self confidence. This scene shows that Padme still treats Anakin like a little boy. The way she looks at Jamilla. I think she realized that she was superior to Jamilla, who is practically asking for her input. But, the one expression after Sio Bibble's comment felt like "I heard this before when I was queen too."

    I noticed that Jamilla follows a different pattern than Padme. The backing on the throne is green now not red. I think she brings the role down a notch. Padme's already got a plan to the Lake Country. Her exchange with Anakin is so well done that it gives another angle to look at the senator. Natalie does a good job here with gestures and acting.

    It adds minor details to the story, mainly furthering the love story, but not sure if this was the right way to go in advancing the story. I would have gone straight to Padme's parents house and did this as a hologram in her bedroom. Something along those lines would make it seem more personal.
  2. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Well frankly, I didn?t see any problems here (and it helps that I actually enjoyed the whole scene :D) and unlike you Mole, didn?t get the feeling that Padme was high and mightier than Jamila. Infact, it was the other way round.

    Naboo was no longer under siege and so it was natural for the Queen to be more regal and needed information for her satisfaction. Jamila infact asks Padme for some clarifications since being Senator should know what is going on in the Senate and the overall state of the Republic.

    Don?t forget when Padme was Queen she didn?t realise how things have changed in the Republic - "the Republic is no longer what is once was" - Palpatine)

    Finally, everyone including Padme also gave due respect to Jamila when they all stood only after the Queen concluded the discussion on the Republic?s situation.

    The look Padme gives the Queen was also not really an attitude matter, but a rather knowing one. It was only when Bibble talked about the failure of the courts to put Gunray away, Jamila looks at Padme as if to say she knows what happened in the past especially to the former Queen ? Despite Padme saving Naboo, the instigator (Gunray as far as they know), was not dealt with as was expected. After all that effort! Disappointing for Padme;and Queen understood that.

    With respect to the love story I cannot debate at this point on the family scenes and their impact but, there was an element of Padme?s position with Anakin.

    Padme in front of her peers, does not want to show any tolerance to Anakin. The Naboo trip was intentional since Padme knows more Naboo than Anakin. Anakin was just a bodyguard. The small ?tiff? between the two spoke volumes to me.

    I also liked the short but firm stare between the two, as soon as Anakin ?gave in?.

    Lastly but not least, I also liked R2, just below the steps, positioned listening to the whole conversation probably having it all recorded :cool:. Reminding me of GL's comment about the PT in the eyes of the droids.







  3. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    Sio Bible was doing a play at the time and had to be superimpossed into the shot. An ILM rep flew to where he was and shot him against a green screen in the same distances that it would look like hes really walking with the bug-eyed Queen and the others.
  4. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    I liked the exchange between Padme and Anakin.....she really dogged him.

    Bibble also quickly explains what happened to Gunray, which is important exposition.
  5. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    The superimposed Sio Bibble is a perfect illusion. No one could have noticed this. I like this chapter. Anakin's "Excuse ME" sound very western movie- like, IMO.
  6. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    when you review of the battle of naboo it is frustrating to know that the separists (the instigators) were not punished at all - and suspicions should have arisen. jamila seemed so different as a queen than padme but i do like her comment about democracy. many have problems with padme's dressing down of anakin but this sure works for me. anakin won't forget this moment and perhaps it even fuels his ambition to prove himself sooner. i too miss padme's back story at her family home - i think it really could have enriched their story as a couple plus her character development. perhaps not as lengthy as originally shot, but a tightened up version. actually in the imax version the entire theed throne room scene was deleted - and i saw aotc first in this format and still loved the movie but once i viewed my dvd, i appreciated this scene a lot. and i agree with the comment about artoo - through the "eyes" of a droid, there's the story. love this little guy
  7. Nightowl TFN Timetales Writer

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Did anyone else get the feeling Jamillia's line ("We must keep our faith in the Republic. The day we stop believing democracy can work is the day we lose it") was aimed more at the audience than at Anakin or Padme? An important point to think of, especially today of all days.

    Of course, the main reason for this scene was to reveal the Trade Federation had gone totally unpunished for their acts on Naboo -- which is really chilling when you think about it. There had to have been hundreds of casualties in & around Theed alone, both Royal Naboo and Gungans. Add the work camps and Gungan cities scattered across the planet and you're talking thousands if not TENS OF THOUSANDS dead! It'd basically be the same as the International Criminal Court trying Saddam Hussein for his reign of terror in Iraq...and then letting him walk. That Naboo has ANY faith at all in the Republic after that is bewildering.
  8. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    The only reason Gunray got off easy is because of Palpatine. How can he just get a slap on the wrist after the Battle of Naboo. ...and tell me the Republic didn't know about that.
  9. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    I like the reference to there being a civil war in this scene - it's a nice foreshadowing of the Galactic Civil War, as well as the Clone Wars. Is's also fantastic to see Oliver Ford Davies as Sio Bibble again - he's a great actor and I liked him a lot in TPM, and I was delighted to see that he was in here, even if it was little more than a cameo. The blue-screen work on his is also seemless. Good job.

    I LOVE the line "the day we stop believing democracy can work is the day we lose it" - Palpatine promotes and spreads a climate of fear in order to scare people into giving him more powers. They stop believing in democracy because of all the scare-stories they get from Palpatine, and look for a strong leader to help them out of it and protect them. This leads to the absolute and total collapse of democracy. As George Lucas has said, this happens throughout history in a war or crisis - people naively start giving up their freedoms and rights, thinking their leaders have their best interests at hand when they ask for more power, and will protect them - BIG mistake. Especially with someone like Palpatine. Had they believed in the democratic system they had and not given up their freedoms, things might have turned out a lot better. The Republic has its problems (as shown in this scene by the fact that Gunray is still viceroy - although again, this is due to Palpatine) - but it's better than a dictatorship or any authoritarian government.

    The little agrgument between Anakin and Padme at the end is great. Natalie's stare at the very end is perfect, and this moment just shows, once again, how Anakin loves being in total control of his situations. When he's not, he's NOT happy about it.
  10. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    The chapter has a great deal of information for the 10 year period after the Federation's attack. It's great to hear about the trials and the inability of the Senate to reach to even the most simple and evident decisions. If the Senate is so powerless to solve even this evident case with a just sollution, then we can safely assume all other parameters of political life in the galaxy are about as fast as an old snail going up hill.

    Seeing the new Queen is great, it would be somewhat strange not to have a face for the one who asked Padme to become Senator.

    Finally, Padme going down Anakin's throat like that makes me feel sorry about the guy

    Ani- Finally I get my first mission! I'll be able to do what I think for a change!
    PAdme -Nope..
  11. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    I agree with the line about democracy as it is only ever as good as the people who run it. If you stop beleiving in democracy, as Palpatine did long ago, you start bveleiving in something esle and use they system for your own gains.
  12. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    Well this is one of those explaining chapters. It visually shows that Amidala is no longer the Queen of Naboo. Queen Jamillia is a fine edition. Too bad her term is only for four years.

    Seeing Governor Sio Bibble again was nice. I thought Boss Nass should have been there though. I mean the Naboo and Gungans have been united for ten years and they are discussing a possible war that will involve the entire planet. It would have added more continuity at least.

    The explanation of what happened with the Trade Federation was certainly needed at this point in the movie.

    The lovers quarrel was fun.
  13. Malikail Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2004
    star 4
    i liked the scene personaly.

    it was not realy character development for padme, she was arrogant and self rightous in TPM.

    it realy just showed me she hasn't grown up at all and is still a spoiled child.

    i don't care for the padme character much, very shallow not much there to peak your intrest, if not for looks the character would be unnoticed by me.

    i actualy like the contrast between jamilla and padme, not all leaders are strong and decissive.

    this doesn't make padme superior in reality, but as was aptly pointed out, in her own mind padme is very superior.

    the exchange between anakin and padme was a good example of how he's not willing to upset or confront her at all.

    it drives his crush on her home well.

    he should have told her something like, 'it may be your home, but you're a politician and i suspect know little to nothing about security'.

    but anakin is far too interested in pleasing her for that.

    i realy like the idea of doing it from padme's house via holotransmission, that would have played out far better.

    i also thought the scene drives home the naboo government and probably people's overly passive nature.

    they are just begging to be conquered, far too many of their leaders can't concieve of fighting for themselves i think.

    in that way it makes padme look like she was a great queen.
  14. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    I think this was some good character development for Padme
  15. Malikail Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2004
    star 4
    I think this was some good character development for Padme

    development? or exhibition of a character we already konw?

    i think the latter, but i do miss things.

    what in this scene has changed about padme since the first movie?

    i admit i'm not overly fond of the character and could easily miss it.
  16. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    re padme's character development - disagree with previous posters assessment that there has been none. in phantom padme had to maintain distance and a certain coldness. only when she was in disguise was the warm side revealed, esp to the child anakin. she had to be focused - she had to be smart (the attack on naboo)and she kept her resolve. in aotc she's much less reserved but she is still a senator and therefore politics is very much in the picture for her. as her daughter who follows, she's right in the physical fight of things and not ever a damsel in distress. remember - she was the 1st to finger dooku but no one would consider it - even mace said asassination was not in his character. i can't understand why some fans don't appreciate padme. she's a class act.
  17. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). AOTC Chapter 17: Kamino Arrival DISCUSSION will be made available 12:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
  18. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    As much as I love this movie, I thought this was the most unnecessary scene in the film.

    We already know Padmé is no longer the queen.

    We know her and Anakin have to go into hiding.

    We find out later that Nute Gunray is still running the Trade Federation.

    I would have dropped this scene in favor of the two brilliant scenes at Padmé's house.

    But the comping in of Sio Bibble into the scene was a miraculous achievement by ILM.
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