AOTC Chapter 21: Teasing a Senator DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Nov 26, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 21: Teasing a Senator
    DISCUSSION: November 27, 2004 - December 1, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 47:48 - 50:18

    Synopsis:
    Anakin and Padme are on a picnic in the meadow in front of numerous waterfalls. Padme's reluctant to tell him something and Anakin says go ahead. She finally gives in and tells about the story of her and Palo at age 12. She begins describing Palo and Anakin is trying to get her to move the story along. She says that she went into public service, while he became an artist. Anakin starts talking about liking politicians, but ends up turning into flirting between the two. He believes the system doesn't work and that they need someone strong, someone wise to tell them what everyone must do. Padme opposes to the idea of a dictatorship. Anakin flirts with her some more and Padme accuses him of teasing her. Later in another part of the meadow, Anakin is trying to impress Padme by riding a shaak. He falls into the grass and Padme, worried comes rushing over to see if he's okay. They rolls around in the grass ending up with Padme on top of Anakin. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    The love story picks up in a beautiful meadow in Lake Country. Out of the entire time on Naboo concerning the actual love story, this is probably my favorite scene. The cinematography, the music, the dialogue is all incredible.

    It's good backstory for Padme to bring up Palo. It shows the she started young even before becoming queen at age 14. Moving into a discussion about politics also helps the scene, showing Anakin practically regurgitating what Palpatine tells him. A dictatorship would work in Anakin's mind and Padme opposes of it, showing she is a defender of democracy. The thing about that is, Padme would rather die than serve a dictatorship. Not directly said, but from her eyes I can see it. Good foreshadowing for ROTS.

    The second part of the chapter, when Anakin rides the shaak starts off with what I feel is bad CG. It seems like it was rushed when trying to make it seem real. The idea's there, but on screen it could definitely be better. At the end, I like how there is this minute notion of Padme being on top of Anakin, symbolizing IMO, who wears the pants in this relationship. We see this down the road in this movie so well.

    A well crafted chapter balanced between love and backstory. Across the Stars is a great addition for this scene as well. Interesting environment, but still a good place to showcase the love between Anakin and Padme. Excellent chapter.
  2. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    In my opinion, the weakest chapter of AOTC, and only worth it for the shot of Padme straddling Anakin. And no, not merely because of its suggestive nature in of itself, but because it is the clearest demonstration of desire on the part of Padme - something that I feel is needed.

    The dialogue is not particularly well done, though it is somewhat necessary to demonstrate Anakin's issues with politics. And bad CG. Along with the CG Jango Fett in the Droid Factory, probably the hardest to believe.
  3. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    This is, admittedly, one of my favorite scenes. I think it really comes together well, even though I wish they'd left some of the extended version in from the novel. The whole scenery, mixed with the acting and music, is really sweet and touching. It definitely gives us the sense of relaxation and pause. If anything else, this scenes is the first moment where there's a genuine connection between Anakin and Padme, blended so well with a hint at Palpatine's influence on Anakin. I agree with the above poster - nice to see Padme's take the affirmative romantically. Though, certainly, your comment on who "wears the pants" earns the question of whether or not this is or will be an issue between Anakin and Padme. She seems, and generally should be, the superior due to her age and maturity, but Anakin's need for dominance and control could interplay and clash with it.

    I think we tend to overlook the importance of the political speak - not just because of how much Palpatine has intervened in Anakin's life, but in how clever Anakin really is. Lucas has hinted in the commentary that people often underestimate Anakin's intelligence, and while he is certainly ignorant and inexperienced in some aspects, he does have a startling tendency for being more than he appears. He almost completely manipulated what could've been a disasterous moment of ill-timed response into something that worked toward his benefit. (I guess a nice way of putting it would be that he literally "charmed" his way out of the situation? :) )

    This scene always did make me wonder, though, if it's just Palpatine influencing Anakin's opinion, or if it's quite possible that Anakin has his own disillusionment with democracy. Surely Anakin can't be too fond of the Republic. Not only does he have Obi Wan's cynical, wary attitude of politicians in his background, but he's also been witness to the corruption of the Senate. If nothing else, Anakin certainly wouldn't see democracy as the best application of government. He's never profitted from it. Democracy didn't keep him from being a slave, it didn't save his mother, and it certainly didn't work well enough not to break down into a civil war.

    The weakest part of the scene is the CGI, admittedly. Ironically, I don't have a problem with the shaak moment - I actually didn't realize Anakin was CGI until it was said over the commentary. :) But the shaak themselves and the waterfalls, while gorgeous, definitely didn't blend as well as in other parts.
  4. BauconBatista Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2004
    star 4
    This chapter is very important to not only AOTC, but the entire saga.

    It represents the first, last and ONLY time these two will ever experience genuine, frolicking fun in their relationship. From there on, they become extremely uncomfortable around each other(Fireplace scene, anybody?), before being separated by a grand galactic war, and then ending in tragedy. That does seem like a huge assumption with one film still missing, but considering the grim state of the galaxy by the time of ROTS, I don't really expect them to go all happy-go-lucky.

    The acting and dialogue is lively, which appropiately contrasts with the doubtness and uncomfortability that kicks in from there on. Though, yes, it does feature the film's weakest CGI.
  5. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    The visuals of the scene are great with the exception of the Shaak riding. Great colors, costumes, backgrounds etc. Alot of time went into that scene.

    The music was wonderful despite the editing.

    I do like the playful nature of the scene. I felt the political discussion kinda took the audience out of the love story for too long, but oh well. I mean I know we needed to hear their views, but it felt awkward hinting at Palpatine in the middle of such sexual tension. :p
  6. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    There's really not that much to say about this scene after "Chaotic Serenity"

    Great scene, because of all she said
  7. Luminara_Sai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 1
    This was definitely the best romantic scene in the whole of the movie. The dialouge worked this time, (no sand here Anakin!), the scenery is beautiful and the political side was nicely drawn in as well. I love the part when they are arguing about democracy and there's that great pause where Anakin has an evil glint in his eye before Padme accuses him of teasing her.

    For the first time, we really see Padme enjoying herself, being lively and leaving her polite Senator persona behind. Unlike in the previous scenes, the two of them finally seem to have a real connection making their romance much more plausible.


    I didn't think the CGI was that bad, I might be a little bit biased cause I just LOVE those big, fat creatures! :)
    Though I really hated that rolling around in the grass, it just seemed so unrealistic...I can just imagine an awkward moment that would follow but the film cuts away to the next scene by then.
  8. Tatooine_Fireman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 4
    I like this scene. It has a great setting with the blue sky with white clouds, the green grass with the waterfalls in the background. I also like Padme's costume, which fits with the playfullness of this scene.
    The dialouge is really good. People complain Anakin and Palpatine had too few scenes together, but Palpatine's influence over Anakin is played out more subtle, like the dialogue right before the speederchase, as well in this scene. IMO, it's a wonderful subtle little thing: I can hear Palpatine saying this to Anakin, but I can also imagine Vader saying stuf like this. It fits Anakin's transition to Vader really well.
    The only thing I don't like about this scene is the whole Shaakriding buisness. I don't care about the goofiness of the scene, but IMO the CG wasn't too good, and when Anakin and Padme roll though the grass, they don't even roll down hill, and it looks a bit weird. I also think that this scene feels a bit unfinished. Nothing happens after they stop rolling; we just cut away, while I think this would've been a great opportunity to explore their (forbidden) feelings for each other a little more.
    I like the way the comic finished this scene, and I think that if they would've put it in the movie like that, it would've been a very powerful scene.
  9. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    I love this scene - my second favourite romance scene after the fireplace scene :D

    Plus, Lucas manages to work in a neat little joke with the scene-change - instead of the once-fashionable cut to waves breaking on the shore to symbolize increased sexual action, Lucas cuts to the waves and storms of Kamino ;)
  10. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    The editing into the next chapter is incredible. When I saw this chapter the first time in theaters, I was bored out of my mind. It didn't fit into the saga at all, but now I just love this scene everything about it.

    The thing was when I saw this in the Forbidden Love trailer, I couldn't wait for this scene.

    But now, I absolutely love it. The entire love story is opposite of Han's and Leia's in ESB. They're's is set in a cold dreary ship and goes from disliking to love. This is set in a more romantic, friendly environment and from the start they have feelings for each other. Another great GL moment betweeen the two trilogies.
  11. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    ILM had to remove lots of insects that flew around Anakin and Padmé in post production according to the Audio Commentary.
    This chapter also includes one very long shot during the picnic.

    I too think the Shaak could use some CGI improvement, though I don't understand everyone's problem with this scene. Sure, it's a little cheesy but that's because Lucas picked the classic love genre which is now seen cheesy.

    I also think the "dictatorship" line is chilling.
  12. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    I'm divided over the relevance of the Palo section of dialogue. On one hand, I regard it as a bit superflous, but I think it was the best way George Lucas conveyed the fact that Padme had had an existence separate from what was merely seen in TPM, and therefore separate from Anakin. I wished George Lucas had written some alternative dialogue for the chapter.
  13. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I liked this scene. Padme was smoking hot for a change, and the shaaks are cool. You can tell Naboo doesn't have much in the way of large terrestrials predators if things like this can live.
  14. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    i don't know why the folks at ILM thought the CG was good in this scene, since we've all seen better. aside from that, it's a good chapter. learning more about Padme's background is good, and we have some great foreshadowing to ROTS when Anakin tells Padme of how he thinks the universe should be run. the one thing to compensate for the bad CG, the fact that Portman was just jaw dropping beautiful! :D
  15. Ker-Soth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2004
    star 3
    Chaotic_Serenity said it all.

    sidenote:I really really hate the fact that this scene forces itself between the Kamino scenes. Doesn't give you enough time to emotionaly step from a dark, grim, full-of-clones enviroment to sweetheart material.
  16. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    I actually think that was done on purpose, to give us a stark contrast of what's going on. Here Anakin and Padme are having fun, seemingly with no concerns, when really the whole galaxy is taking it's first steps toward chaos. It's like playing a piano concerto as a soundtrack to a bunch of atom bombs going off. :) It jars the viewer back to the harsh reality of what's going on.


    I'm divided over the relevance of the Palo section of dialogue. On one hand, I regard it as a bit superflous, but I think it was the best way George Lucas conveyed the fact that Padme had had an existence separate from what was merely seen in TPM, and therefore separate from Anakin. I wished George Lucas had written some alternative dialogue for the chapter.

    Oh, I think it's important for another reason, too - we get to see Anakin's painfully jealous nature appear. I mean, sheesh, we all knew he was selfish and more than little possessive, but this is one of the first moment we really see it come out in him. And the jealous reaction is so immediate, too, so bitterly inappropriate, as though it was wrong of her to kiss someone other than him. IMO, hints at much deeper flaws in Anakin that might come out in ROTS. :)
  17. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    Oh, I think it's important for another reason, too - we get to see Anakin's painfully jealous nature appear. I mean, sheesh, we all knew he was selfish and more than little possessive, but this is one of the first moment we really see it come out in him. And the jealous reaction is so immediate, too, so bitterly inappropriate, as though it was wrong of her to kiss someone other than him. IMO, hints at much deeper flaws in Anakin that might come out in ROTS.

    I considered mentioning that, but to me it seems to exist as purely a red herring.
  18. Atomium89_Morgoth Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2004
    I think it was a good scene because it shows us Anakin`s true nature when he is talking how politics should work. It is a very important prequel for events in ROTS.
  19. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    I considered mentioning that, but to me it seems to exist as purely a red herring.

    I don't mean to suggest his relationship with Padme is the springboard for his converesion in ROTS (saying he turns to the dark side for something as simple as suspicions of cheating is really petty and unbelievable, IMO). I'm thinking more along the lines that it hints futher at the darkness in Anakin. Under the silver lining of his affection, there is a harsh truth to Anakin's psychology in love. He's very possessive, very controlling. He wants everything and everyone to work for himself, the way he wants them to be, and often will stop short of nothing to get it.
  20. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
  21. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    aotc is in my top 5 films - i've seen it more than any other film - not just star wars, i mean even more than the wizard of oz or gone with the wind or citizen kane - but this chapter although incredibly beautiful - scenery, costumes, the actors - well, this chapter just doesn't work for me, even though i think the dialogue when anakin hints about 3 people he respects and implication is palps is one of them and the reference to a dictatorship being tolerable - that if the public can't make the right decision they should be forced to abide by a decision made by others (and i could go into contemporary politics here but i'll save my breath and typing fingers) well - both of these bits of dialogue are incredibly important and revealing. but the roll down the hill is embarrassing and the shaak riding is the weakest cgi in the entire movie. so a thumbs up and down from me.
  22. Hades2021 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2003
    star 4
    The setting here is absolutely beautiful. I would watch it just for the setting, seriously.

    And bad CG. Along with the CG Jango Fett in the Droid Factory, probably the hardest to believe.

    I never knew Jango was CG in the droid factory. So... I guess the CG is pretty good!
  23. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    I never knew Jango was CG in the droid factory. So... I guess the CG is pretty good!

    Wow. I'm a gusher and my suspension of disbelief isn't even that good. :p
  24. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    It is Hayden and Natalie's best scene together.
  25. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I absolutely love this scene, one of my favourites from the whole saga. Hayden and Natalie have great chemistry here, it comes across as very natural and I like the dialogue a lot. And despite what some people think, I love the Sound of Music rip-off part. Sometimes I think this scene should have come before the first kiss scene though.
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