AOTC Chapter 24: Obi-Wan's Report DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Dec 11, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 24: Obi-Wan's Report
    DISCUSSION: December 12, 2004 - December 16, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 56:42 - 58:53

    Synopsis:
    Escorting Obi-Wan back outside, Taun We tells him to relay to the Jedi Council that the first batallions are ready. She also tells him that clones do take time to grow. The Jedi thanks her as she departs from the scene. Obi-Wan, with his hood up, heads back to the ship and prepare R4 to send a message to the "Old-Folks Home" on Coruscant. In an meditation chamber, Obi-Wan speaks to his masters Yoda and Mace Windu via hologram. He confirms that he has made contact with Lama Su and that they are using a bounty hunter named Jango Fett to create a clone army. He believe Jango is the assassin. Obi-Wan believes that there is no motive for the cloners to assassinate Senator Amidala. Yoda says to not assume anything and clear his mind must be. Kenobi also states that Master Sifo-Dyas placed an order at the request of the Senate ten years ago. Obi-Wan wonders if any request was authorized by the council. Mace quickly responds no. Yoda says to bring Jango to Coruscant for questioning. Obi-Wan agrees to report when he has captured him. The hologram fades. Yoda and Mace are astonished by the recent revelation. Mace suggests to inform the Senate of their diminished state. Yoda responds by saying that if the Senate is informed, then their enemies will multiply. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    The mystery thickens a bit more as Obi-Wan reports his finding to his superiors on Coruscant. A very intriguing chapter. Very dark and twists the entire plot around completely in another direction.

    The entire conversation between the Jedi is well done and manages to get enough information for the fan to want even more. The CG hologram is pretty good. It's very difficult to get a clear picture of Obi-Wan due to the background. However, the meditation chamber is nice location. Very simple with just a hologram projector and two places to sit as opposed to the luxury of Padme or Palpatine's offices and apartments.

    The exchanges between Mace and Yoda are still puzzling almost 2-3 years later. Mace seems to be quick in saying that the council never authorized a clone army and automatically says to inform the Senate of their diminished powers. Also Yoda's warning has me thinking that they both know something and nothing has been said as of yet.

    I always liked this scene. It adds so much much to the mystery plotline, which will evolve into a Jedi vs. Sith plotline. One of the last times we'll be seeing Kamino. Pity. Excellent chapter nevertheless.
  2. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    the plot certainly thickens here. star wars expands to a new genre: that of the the mystery. tons of subtle hints that as you say, moleman, are still unresolved. from yoda's cautionary comment to obiwan where the implication is yoda suspects more than he can say. and that look shared by mace and yoda is just so intriguing. interesting also that this scene is set in the same locale as the revelation and reaction to qui gon's "noooo!!" as anakin's is slaughtering the tuskens. very film noir with the horizontal shadows of the blinds. there are charades being played - mace and yoda sense something's amiss in the senate and they can't be truthful about diminished capacities of the jedi but they don't know who is untrustworthy. lucas is reeling us into the story even further. suspenseful
  3. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    The dialogue between Windu and Yoda is one of the more interest aspects of the film.

    The Jedi's ability to use the force, diminshed? I remember hearing that and not knowing what to think. I don't think it's an idea any fan had, that the Jedi's ability to use and see the future using the Force would diminsh. Alot of uncertainity in that scene, even from Yoda.

    By the way, the CG Yoda in that scene is probably the most spot-on perfect replacation of the puppet Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back. I watch that scene and it's still probably one of the best CG animated and render shots I've ever seen.

    Also, as many have pointed out, Lucas is visually laying it on thich with the film noir aspects of that scene and also with the scenes with Obi-Wan on Kamino. You can always tell the tone and mood of a scene in Star Wars by it's visual. It's the mark of a gifted visual director. I wish more films today were more visual in their nature when it comes to storytelling.
  4. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    By the way, the CG Yoda in that scene is probably the most spot-on perfect replacation of the puppet Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back. I watch that scene and it's still probably one of the best CG animated and render shots I've ever seen.

    My thoughts exactly.

    I really like this scene, everything about it is perfect.
  5. Lando_Plenty Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 2
    One of the better scenes, definitely. It really hits home with the mystery theme(very film noir), and visually is a very solid scene. Kamino is mysterious in itself, and Yoda's chamber has that mysterious essence, brought on so by the blinds around the windows (characteristic of film noir...like venetian blinds in a 1930's detective office.) The scene is quiet and foreboding (much thanks to the music too for creating such an atmosphere.)

    And Yoda is beautifully rendered in this scene. I love the look he gives Mace when Obi-wan mentions the involvement of Sifo-Dyas in the Clone Army.
  6. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    An all-round great scene - dialogue and visuals enriching the stroy and its deepening mystery.
  7. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    This was one of those scenes that was slightly worked over during production as Lucas changed his mind about a couple of things. Like Syfo-Dyas being a once real Jedi. In this scene Obi-Wan says that he was killed before the clones were ordered. Which is really convenient considering he told Lama Su he died "almost ten years ago" before he even knew what he was covering for.

    But the main point is that Syfo-Dyas is dead and someone used his name to order a clone army.

    In the older version of the scene, Obi-Wan told them about Darth Tyranus. Because in the early script version of the Jango convo, Jango says Darth Tyranus instead of just Tyranus. So in this scene they think they've found a lead to Darth Maul's apprentice possibly.

    The statement about their powers diminishing was kinda odd. But it's just another way of saying the dark side is clouding their vision. As we saw earlier.


    Yoda: "If informed the Senate is, multiply our adversaries will."

    I think that statement would have been more effective had the first Senate sequence been left in the film. For the individual movie itself, all we've seen up to this point were kind politicians. Even a loyalist committee. Plus we really didn't know how the Senate viewed the Jedi and Ask Aak, Darsana, and Orn Free Taa really were to show us that. I guess it was one of those things that could have been left for deleted scenes. But apparently they felt even the deleted scenes needed some sort of editing. Shame on them.

    Anyways, back to the chapter. The music was very moody. :p
  8. drth sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 1999
    star 2
    I always found this scene to be very interesting. The one thing that jumped out at me (and no one else mentioned it) is that Obi-Wan's hologram is steady for the most part, except when he says "Sifo-Dyas". It kinda goes staticky for a second there. And it's right as he says the name, so it was no doubt put there on purpose. But why?
  9. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    God I love the whole mystery feel.
  10. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    i think the hologram of Obi-Wan is bad as he's really far out in the galaxy.
    Kamino is beyond the outer-rim as Dex says right on the edge of the galaxy on the end of the Corellian Run.

    Though you'd think the Jedi would install something so Obi-Wan doesn't have to stand out in the rain to record his message.
  11. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Obi-Wan doesn't have to stand out in the rain to record his message.

    "Even if you succeed, its a hard life" - Qui Gon (TPM) ;)

    Anyway, great scene, wonderful mystery. And yes, that Sifo Dyas part getting muffled, nice touch. Hmm, I wonder if Palpy is somehow listening to the conversation. I wouldn't let it past him to be able to unscramble code 5. [face_devil]




  12. Master_Gallia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 2
    I agree with the above. This is where the plot thickens. In the theater I remember catching the "lightning flash THEN thunder" effect along with JW score. Of corse this was discussed on the DVD but that really help sale the mood of this chapter.

    And then there's always a chance to hear "R4..... Scramble code 5 to Corrusant care of the old folks home!"
  13. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    ^^

    Yes, a nice subtle joke thrown in the mix.
  14. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Palpatine could be listening in. Does he have to unscramble code five or is it through the dark side he listens.
  15. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    a good thought there, Moleman. not only does this chapter further the mystery of clones (since Yoda mentions that nobody on the Jedi Council had authority to make an order for clones), but also shows the dwindling power of the Jedi, since they didn't sense anything going on. music again is great and i they did a damn good job on hologram, it just looks great.
  16. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Well, the whole Obi-Wan "standing in the rain" thing functions as a metaphor. He's standing in the rain, talking to the Council... their ability to use the Force is diminished. It's like it's "raining" in the Force and they can't see clearly. Lucas is always using visual storytelling, like it was said above, and water is a major element for him. I find using rain in this scene is particularly effective given the nature of what they're discussing. Not to mention it's moody and noir-ish and conveys the feeling as well as the meaning.
  17. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). AOTC Chapter 25: Nightmare DISCUSSION will be made available 12:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
  18. black_saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I love the Msytery thing too. I always wonder if Qui-gon is Syfo-Dios.
  19. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    good thought rebel scum, didn't think of that

    *sings* It's raining....raining in the Force
  20. MrC123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    star 4
    While I loved AOTC, one thing I never understood is how the Jedi haven't put 2 and 2 together. For instance, Jango is revealed to be a bad guy as he tries to assassinate Padme, he leads Obi wan from the clone planet to the Seperatist planet, yet the jedi still trust to use the clones, of the "bad guy" Jango no less after everything Jango did. Why don't the Jedi realise that hey, this guy is working for Dooku, do you think we should be wary of the Clones? I've tried to validate this problem by saying the Jedi didn't know he was working for Dooku, but Jango lead Obi-wan to Geonosis, so that erases that idea. If somebody could please help validate this problem, I'd love to hear more opinions.
  21. The_Spectre Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Presumably no-one thinks that Jango's morality has anything to do with the clones - he was simply hired as a good physical model for them and the fact that he is evil does not mean that the clones are evil. He did not create the clones, the Kaminoans did, and as far as anyone knows, they are loyal Republic allies and Jango is (was) no more than a mercenary working for both sides.
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