AOTC Chapter 4: Chancellor's Meeting DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Sep 2, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next 8 months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 4: Chancellor's Meeting
    DISCUSSION: September 3, 2004 - September 7, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 4:23 - 6:59

    Synopsis:
    The film shifts from the landing platform to the Republic Executive Building. Supreme Chancellor Palpatine is speaking with the Jedi about the difficulty in holding off the vote. Dar Wac appears via hologram to tell Palpatine that the Loyalist Committee has arrived and Palpatine tells them to send them in. The Loyalist Commitee, comprised of Senator Amidala, Bail Organa, Jar-Jar Binks and other senators enter the office. Yoda tells Padme that seeing her brings warm feelings to his heart. Padme then believes that Count Dooku is behind the assassination attempt. Mace Windu and Ki-Adi Mundi try to tell the senator that he would not do such a thing. It is not in his character. Palpatine looking out at the cityscape suggests that she be placed under the protection of security. Padme doesn't accept the chancellor's offer. Yoda begins to sense something in Palpatine. The chancellor then suggests that an old friend like Obi-Wan would be best suited for the job. Padme accepts Palpatine's help. Mace tells Padme that he will have Obi-Wan report to her. Palpatine gives a final wicked smile. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    A very political beginning. I know that there was a scene in the Senate preceding this discussion. More that I see AOTC, the more I see Padme has the Force. In this scene she jumps the gun and says Dooku is behind the plot. In a way he is with Gunray and Sidious.

    The elements of red foreshadow the Empire impressively. From the decour to the guards. Palpatine is as manipulative as ever. You can see that he is the puppetmaster. Yoda senses something, but the dark side is clouding the evil.

    I was skeptical at first with a great amount of exposition in the beginning, but going from a major action scene to nestling in a controlled political discussion is impressive. My only problem with Chapter 4 is technical. It has a difficult type transferring over on DVD. As far as story, it provides necessary political background and the relationship between Jedi and the Senate.

    Good scene though. We need quiet moments in between two action sequences.
  2. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    I think this thing is getting kind of out of hand personally. Perhaps you should slow down the making of these threads. :)
  3. Viceroy_Wagar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2004
    star 1
    Yes I really liked this scene too. One of my favorite things about Star Wars is the political stuff, which the classics lacked. Its all quite interesting...
  4. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I think this thing is getting kind of out of hand personally. Perhaps you should slow down the making of these threads.

    He has only made 2 threads here (and 2 in TPM), each spaced by 5 days, c'mon, thats not 'out of hand'. Its not like he is spamming the boards. These chapter discussions are a good idea.
  5. Tatooine_Fireman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 4
    I agree.
    I like that scene a lot, and this may sound a little stupid, but it's mostly because of the colors. They're so rich. I love the combination of reds and grays of his office, and the way it contrasts with the blues of the air outside.

    I also thought it was cool to see Palps wearing something black, and I loved to see his chair and the Royal Guards. His office IMO has quite some simularities (sp?) with his DS2 throneroom: a huge window behind, overlooking the sky; emphasizing what a powerful person he really is. His seat (and desk in this case) is placed on a rise to from where he can watch everybody that's going in or out.

  6. Aiwendil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    To be honest (and I am someone who loves the prequels) I thought the acting in this scene could have been better. Or perhaps it's not the acting but the direction of the actors - I thought the pace of the dialogue ought to have been just a little faster.

    But that is not to say that I dislike the scene. As others have noted, the colors are excellent. And a quiet scene like this is needed after the opening explosion. One bit of acting that I do like very much in this scene must be credited to Rob Coleman - Yoda's (digital) reaction to Palpatine's suggestion that Padme be protected by Obi-Wan. I think that in TPM and especially in AotC GL and the animators learned that the key to making digital characters believable is to give them pure acting moments like this.
  7. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    I love the look on Yoda's face as he suspects Palpatine - that's a superb piece of digital acting. Right from this scene, I just accepted that Yoda was digital and didn't miss the puppet at all - they did a wonderful job with him.

    It's interesting how Palpatine suggested Obi-Wan and Anakin to watch over Padme - did he really intend things to happen the way they would, and for Anakin and Padme to fall in love? I doubt he predicted it so accurately, but I'm sure Palpatine was aware of Anakin's feelings for Padme - possibly he felt them or Anakin hinted at them during one of their meeting prior to AotC - Palpatine just wants to bring them together to see what happens, in the hope that Anakin will be brought into conflict with the Jedi Order.

    I've noticed that particularly quite early in the scene, the camera moves around quite a lot, but VERY slowly - there are very slow zooms on the characters for the first few shots, and this kind of adds to the tension and weight of the scene. However, some of the editing in this scene doesn't feel quite smooth, and Bail's line "Are you sure that's a wise decision under these stressful times?" never quite sounded right to me - perhaps it should have been "during these stressful times", or better, "under these stressful circumstances". I think some of the dialogue in the movie could have been improved simply by changing one or two words in a sentence, and it might have made it easier for the actors to deliver. Still, I'm happy with the dialogue overall - I think once you accept it for what it is, it's not as bad as a lot of people say. :)
  8. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    I like this scene because I think it showed that the Republic wasn't the same and that war was in the air.
  9. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    Most of my ideas have already been mentioned:

    The colors in the office.
    The "chair" and the royal guards.
    Yoda's look was great. He knows something isn't right, but can't put his green finger on it.

    You can also tell that Palp's hates Yoda so much but can't show it.
  10. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    It's also interesting that this scene is the first time in the saga that Mace Windu is actually named on-screen - we never found out his name in TPM, the same with Nute Gunray, and Bail Organa (or even just the name Organa) has never been mentioned in the movies.
  11. ThrawnRocks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 6
    This was a nice little scene, not nearly as interesiting as Chapter 3, but it did a good job at showing Palpatine's minipulations.

    I love the political side of things, and it is one of my favorit aspect of the prequels, so I wish that this scene could have been a bit more political.
  12. earlchinna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2004
    star 2
    i love the fact that chapter 4 of aotc and tpm have nearly the same aspect: after an action scene, it's quiet, political, and tense
  13. ghost-jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2004
    star 2
    *joins the gushers who simply loved the look that Yoda gave to Palps*
  14. abinsur Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2004
    what I like most about that chapter is that its obvioius that the jedi have become arrogant. Mace and the others cant even begin to fathom that their former friend and fellow Jedi Dooku would even attempt something as henious as an assasination attempt. This "arrogance" I think will play a large part in the final days of the Jedi. They wont be able to see the train until its right in front of them.
  15. Holy_Bum Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2004
    I thought that it seemed weird that Padme would realize its Count Dooku, and powerful Jedi like Mace don't. How does Padme know so easily? She says she believes Count dooku is behind it, but she doesn't say why she believes that.

    Another thing i hated, i know its small, but i'm being picky here. Padme's rudeness towards Yoda. Not even a thank you. Yoda gives her a great compliment, and shows how he feels towards her, and all she says (without even a small hint of a smile) "do you have any idea who's behind these attacks".

    I like Ian's acting here, and I love the look that Yoda gives him. Digital yoda is amazing IMO.
  16. ThrawnRocks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 6
    I think the jedi like mace and yoda couldn't see dooku doing such a thing as trying to murder Padme, because they knew Dooku as a person, and as a friend, so it clouded their judgement.
  17. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I think something like that holds true in real life. If you knew somebody as a close friend all your life, and then one day they're suddenly accused of murder, would you believe it right away? Would you believe it at all? I wouldn't until I had facts which the Jedi didn't.

    I don't think it was arrogance.
  18. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    I was sad to see that the opening Senate sequence was indeed cut. In fact I felt worse when I saw that the dvd didn't even show the complete version of that senate sequence. I was looking forward to Senator Orn Free Taa and a scene with Palpatine. But on we go to the office meeting.

    The place where Palpatines seat of power was didn't look too impressive. It was a mound building. Not saying I was expecting the Imperial Palace after 10 years of office, but it still looked beneath Palpatine. Didn't look too secure either.

    So we start the scene with very slow dialogue exchanges. The scene was feeling very sterile. I mean for the Chancellors office, I didn't see any holograms in the background or papers on his desk. The plot was good though. Showed Palpatine manipulating things and even showed that he could sit in front of the Jedi Council and hide his true identity.

    Yoda animation was great. No complaints there. He looked like the old Yoda from TESB.

    Palpatines outfit looked very cool. Black and gold mix well for power.

    But then the loyalist committee enters. It consists of Senator Amidala, Representative Jar Jar Binks, and Dorme from Naboo, Senator Bail Organa from Alderaan, Vice Chairman Mas Amedda of the Senate, and Senator Orn Free Taa and his two sexy looking aides from Ryloth. It didn't feel too official for a committee. They needed more Senators for this sequence and less aides. I mean they could have put Senator Ask Aak, Senator Darsana, etc etc in there.

    Palpatine steals the scene with his suggestion of Obi-Wan to protect Padme and Yoda's odd glare at him.

    But I am not a fan of sequences between 14 or 15 characters where they all just stand around waiting for their line of dialogue. Star Wars needs impromptu acting. :p
  19. palpytine Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2004
    star 1
    if you want my opinion the part when padme comes into this scene is when it bad acting takes over, the music doesnt match with whats going on and it sounds weird. i think that is when this scene starts going downhill.
  20. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    These chapter discussions are great!

    I love when Yoda says the dark side clouds everything...and the background figure in black robes is positioned in the background, seeming to visually "hover" over Yoda. Nice composition.

    Yoda knows something is up with these political maneuverings and Mace shows he is incapable of (or unwilling to) acknowledge Dooku's ability to be treacherous.

    The groundwork for establishing the Jedi have become weak is laid here, among other key points. But, this is a very dark chapter and always seems very brooding to me.
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I love this scene. It's cool how difficult it is to see the Guards-they blend in quite well with the rest of the red!
  22. MerryWLukefan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 1
    I like a lot how Yoda's got a lot of suspicious looks going on in that scene, especially when the matter of Padme getting bodyguards is brought up. He looks at Palpatine with this "I think I know what you're trying to pull" look.

    I always thought the contrast of the dark interior against the sheer brilliance of the cityscape only highlighted Palpatine's potential as a Sith. He's the one dark spot in the Galaxy, literally and spiritually.

    I love the irony of the "The thought of losing you is...unbearable."
  23. Obi-Wan2001 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2001
    star 4
    Sam does a good job in this scene. I was disappointed in, pretty much, all of his line deliveries in TPM. But here, he was a lot better. We even get to see him emote a little bit, when Palpatine says, "Send them in." It's a great shot of a very concerned Mace in deep contemplation mode. Sam even does this very subtle look back towards Yoda as he's walking away, which is a nice touch.
  24. Hades2021 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2003
    star 4
    I think the main problem with this scene is that there are like 20 people not doing anything. It's kind of distracting.... Everyone just stands around looking at whoever's talking. Plus, there is some dialogue that could definitely be better. All-in-all I think it's a boring scene. Could've been better.

    Don't get me wrong, I love AOTC, I think it's a great movie.
  25. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). AOTC Chapter 5: Old Friends DISCUSSION will be made available 12:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
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