AOTC Chapter 6: Assassins DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Sep 13, 2004.

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  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next 8 months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 6: Assassins
    DISCUSSION: September 13, 2004 - September 17, 2004
    DVD TIME INDEX: 10:29 - 14:19

    Synopsis:
    On the ledge of a building, bounty hunter Zam Wesell meets Jango Fett. Jango is displeased with the failed assassination attempt on the landing platform. His client is getting impatient. At Padme's apartment, Obi-Wan checks up on Anakin, who is finding it difficult to keep his thoughts away from his mother. He would rather dream about Padme. Obi-Wan offers a mentor's advice to his apprentice. Back on the ledge, Zam puts Kouhuns in the assassin droid and sends it off to Padme's apartment. Obi-Wan and Anakin continue to talk about politics and senses. The assassin droid arrives at Padme's window undetected. A hole is cut in the window and the kouhuns drop onto the floor. Artoo is unable to detect the assassin tools as they make their way toward's Padme. As the kouhuns are almost on Padme's face, Obi-Wan and Anakin sense a disturbance and rush into the room. Anakin slices the kouhuns. Obi-Wan notices the droid outside the window and jumps out onto it as it takes off into the cityscape. The Naboo entourage enter the room to see how Padme is doing. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    At first I hated the back and forth between Zam and the apartment and realized after three screening that it only built up the suspense of the second assassination.

    I like the foreshadowing of Shmi's fate in the apartment. Anakin is worried about her, which is considered to be a minor plot point in Clones. It shows what Anakin wants, reveals more of his love for Padme and his allegiance to Palpatine.

    The political conversation between Obi-Wan and Anakin is essential to show the relationship between Jedi and Senate. Obi-Wan doesn't trust the Senate and easily can tell what Palpatine is up to. I didn't like Anakin's monotonic whining, "Not another lecture on the economic..." A few lines like this hurt the well done conversation.

    The environment, anticipation and suspense makes this chapter impressive in terms of a cross between exposition and action. It serves as the perfect scene preluding a huge action sequence.
  2. Tatooine_Fireman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 4
    Yay the first!
    I like the ledge where Zam and Jango are standing a lot. I love those adds in the background. Coruscant looks very beautiful, especially at night.

    The conversation between Anakin and Obi-Wan does a lot of explaining, but it stays interesting, because the conversation changes subjects, and they are at each other's throats a little.
    I also like how the tension is built int his scene. While Anakin and Obi-Wan continue their conversation, the Kouhuns are dropped into Padme's room, and crawl up to her bed, and we still think Anakin and Obi-Wan don't notice a thing. I love that creepy music.
    Then, finally Anakin and Obi-Wan burst in the room. When Obi-Wan jumps through the window, it is the start of a lot of action.
  3. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    "Dreams pass in time"

    One of my favorite scenes in the entire saga, we see that Anakin and Obi-wan have a pretty deep relationship. Obi-Wan knows his problems, Anakin isn't afraid of telling Obi-Wan what he feels and thinks.

    And furthermore, i think the "Dreams pass in time(my favorite line)" comment really shows that Obi-Wan just doesn't "get" Anakin.
  4. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    I love the depth this adds to Obi-Wan - he's serving a government that he doen't trust or believe in, yet will still do his duty - something that is very important to Obi-Wan, as revealed later in his confrontation with Anakin on the Gunship.
  5. Aiwendil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    The thing that initially struck me most about this scene was the way the dialogue track was handled. The conversation between Obi-Wan and Anakin vanishes, obviously, when we cut to Jango and Zam. But when we cut to Padme's room, we still hear it, but faintly, as if we're really listening to it from that room. The result is that their conversation drifts in and out of our consciousness. This adds a dream-like character to the scene, which is doubly appropriate: first because it's a night scene, and Padme's sleeping, and second because of the content of their conversation: they discuss Anakin's dreams. Their conversation at times becomes more of an ambient sound effect than true dialogue. And that allows Lucas to slip in the important bits about Palpatine and the Senate much more subtly than would have been possible in a straight dialogue scene.
  6. Jedi_Steve Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 2
    The exchange between the assassins is an effective way of letting us know that something bad is about to happen, and it establishes another step of the villain hierachy, seeing that Zam works under Jango. The colorful billboards are a nice homage to the film Bladerunner, as are many of the Coruscant night shots.

    Others have already hit the nail on the head about Anakin's concern about his mother, as well as the depth of his relationship with his master so I won't go into that :)

    Paying close attention to this scene brings so much more to it. As said before, the muffled conversation between Anakin and Obi-Wan on the other side of the wall highlights subtle, yet very interesting details about the characters themselves, as well as the overall socio-political environment of the film. It establishes the contrasting views of the master and apprentice which will develop further and of course eventually lead to their fatal confrontation in Episode III. The low-key lighting of the apartment conveys the dominant mystery and danger motif of the film surrounding Padme in particular.

    The details of the mise en scene are interesting as always. The security grid right above the floor is cool, as well as the probe droid and it's gadgets. The slyness and precision is great, and it works wonderfully with the creepy music of the score. All the elements fufill the purpose of building suspense.

    The sudden burst of action brings us into the first major action sequence of the film wonderfully. Anakin's precise slicing of the bugs, as well as Obi-Wan's dive out the window simply had my jaw dropped. Yoda's later dialogue about the recklessness of even the "older, more experienced" Jedi is given its significance. Another line that also comes to mind from this moment was Obi-Wan and Yoda's discussion in ESB... (to Luke) "you are reckless" (Obi) "so was I, if you remember." All in all a well done scene that brings us into a great chase.
  7. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    There was a cut scene after this sequence involving Yoda and Mace talking about the Sith, I can see why it may have been cut as to not confuse the audience. Just in case people confuse Bounty Hunters with the Sith. :p


    The ledge scene was good. I was trying to get a feel for Zam Wesell after thinking for a year and a half after TPM that it would be Aurra Sing playing the part. :p

    The signs on the sides of the buildings were interesting enough.

    I wasn't very fond of the decoy line though. I mean Nute Gunray knows Senator Amidala uses decoys yet he's fooled by it again at the start of AOTC? Though I realize for the sake of the plot, he had to be fooled again.

    Jango's "very poisonous" line always made me laugh.

    I loved the talk about Shmi and dreams. If makes me think of the two tone poems that Shmi and Anakin had for TPM.

    The political talk about Palpatine was nice. Get him in the story anyway you can considering he only had 7 scenes total in AOTC and one was cut. Gets Obi-Wan views on the Supreme Chancellor ten years after their little greet meeting at the end of TPM.

    The Kouhuns were cool. I disliked how they just stopped moving when R2-D2 scanned the room though. I mean they're rabid bugs. They shouldn't be that intelligent.

    Lots of reckless Jedi action works for me also. Jumping out windows etc. I can only imagine the jokes on set about Anakin on top of Padme in her bed with his lightsaber drawn.
  8. Jedi_Steve Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 2
    The exchange between the assassins is an effective way of letting us know that something bad is about to happen, and it establishes another step of the villain hierachy, seeing that Zam works under Jango. The colorful billboards are a nice homage to the film Bladerunner, as are many of the Coruscant night shots.

    Others have already hit the nail on the head about Anakin's concern about his mother, as well as the depth of his relationship with his master so I won't go into that :)

    Paying close attention to this scene brings so much more to it. As said before, the muffled conversation between Anakin and Obi-Wan on the other side of the wall highlights subtle, yet very interesting details about the characters themselves, as well as the overall socio-political environment of the film. It establishes the contrasting views of the master and apprentice which will develop further and of course eventually lead to their fatal confrontation in Episode III. The low-key lighting of the apartment conveys the dominant mystery and danger motif of the film surrounding Padme in particular.

    The details of the mise en scene are interesting as always. The security grid right above the floor is cool, as well as the probe droid and it's gadgets. The slyness and precision is great, and it works wonderfully with the creepy music of the score. All the elements fufill the purpose of building suspense.

    The sudden burst of action brings us into the first major action sequence of the film wonderfully. Anakin's precise slicing of the bugs, as well as Obi-Wan's dive out the window simply had my jaw dropped. Yoda's later dialogue about the recklessness of even the "older, more experienced" Jedi is given its significance. Another line that also comes to mind from this moment was Obi-Wan and Yoda's discussion in ESB... (to Luke) "you are reckless" (Obi) "so was I, if you remember." All in all a well done scene that brings us into a great chase.
  9. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    Don't forget the distant sounds of the city and its traffic that you can hear when Anakin's out on the balcony - and the way it's cut off when the glass door slides down - very well done :D
  10. Hatmatter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    There is some interesting symbolism in the opening "assasination" sequence. I'll point out two examples here (although there are others):

    1)It is a conventional "courtly love" notion that love enters through the eyes and that the lover's eyes can snag the lover: cause him to go into a kind of aesthetic arrest (I'm thinking her of Parzival seeing his blood on the snow and becoming mesmerized by the memory of his love's red lips and cheeks against her snow white skin). Well, Lucas gives us an example of this in this particular chapter we are discussing when Anakin leaps on the bed with Padme in order to slice the killer vermin in two. The two lock eyes and, whereas Obi Wan does not hesitate and jumps through the window to grab a hold of the droid, Anakin hesitates for a mere moment as he is "arrested" by the gaze of his love. This is why Obi Wan, annoyed, asks Anakin, "What kept you?" There is humor in their exchange here, but there is also truth. Obi Wan is gently scolding Anakin for his hesitation, brought about by his attachment to Padme. An attachment that is forbidden for a Jedi.

    2)The chase scene with Zam is in the picture for it's excitement and all. But there is a symbolic dimension to why Zam is a female bounty hunter and why the chase sequence takes place as it does: it demonstrates Anakin's lack of control over his sexual drive. Anakin's attempt to force entry into Zam's speeder with his lightsaber (an obvious phallic symbol) is a Freudian representation of an attempted rape. Anakin's lack of control (for which Obi Wan scolds him as they are about to enter the club) is, of course, manifest throughout the entire movie and, ultimately will be one of the reasons he becomes Vader. Control is also a reoccurring lesson that Yoda attempts to teach Luke.

    Please do not respond that this is an over analysis of this particular chapter, and that Obi Wan's admonishment to Anakin about taking so long is just to set up Anakin's joke about picking the right speeder, or that the Zam sequence is "just" an action sequence. Each of these moments have dimensions, they have meaning on more than one level. Lucas, remember, is an admirer of the books of Joseph Campbell (who, himself, was a student of Jung and Freud). If you read Campbell's books, he analyzes myths and literature in much the same way I have here taken a quick look at Chapter 6.
  11. Hades2021 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2003
    star 4
    Hatmatter, this is a kids movie! Lol

    I just have to say that cutting away to Padme's room and still hearing the conversation was good. The first time you see it, you can hear them, but you're not really paying attention. And then the next times you watch it, you can pick up what they're saying.

    One of my pet peeves in this scene is when Anakin slices those bugs it takes Padme like 2 seconds to wake up. She's like "HUH!" If she woke up sooner Ani would've sliced her head off, but still the amount of time it takes for her to wake up is just annoying.
  12. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    Great set up for some action.
  13. Eighty-Six Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2004
    This chapter is just chock-full of excellence. Obi-Wan's consolation cements the fact that there is friendliness behind the snarkiness, those ads and the people in front of them are cool, Coruscant remains consistently awesome (only to get even more awesome soon), the wormy things were great (I love the wet thump they make when they hit the ground), and Kenobi jumping out of the window is pure madness. His jump kind of sets the level of plausibility for what the Jedi can do in this movie, as there are more crazy Jedi acrobatics in this one than any of the others so far.

    Yeah, I think I like this chapter.
  14. Hatmatter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    Hades 2021: yeah, you're right...I never meant to take that away from this movie! :) lol

  15. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Don't forget that the music is absolutely terrific, from the subtle moments in the "dream sequence" to the chase itself.

    John Williams goes very much out of the "star wars sound" but still keeps it Star Warsy.....if that makes any sense.
  16. NZPoe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2001
    star 4
    One negative thing about this brilliant chapter:

    Zam and Jango on the Ledge = worst CGI compositing EVER!! :( Poor ILM.

  17. Motee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2003
    star 4
    I liked the pace of this scene. The only major problem I had was that Obi-Wan's conversation on Palpatine are somewhat hushed by the music and his dialogue is really important.

    I also didn't really like that Artoo didn't pick up the kohouns. Grr...

    I am a fan of this scene because it leads into one of the best scenes of the PT - the Coruscant Chase.
  18. Forcefire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2000
    star 4
    " Each of these moments have dimensions, they have meaning on more than one level. Lucas, remember, is an admirer of the books of Joseph Campbell (who, himself, was a student of Jung and Freud)."

    I'm aware that Campbell was a student of Jung, but Freud? He and Jung disagreed on a whole lot of stuff. Wouldn't that kind of be like a Force-user being a student of both Palpatine and Yoda?

    But yeah, kouhuns are pretty cool. And R2 didn't save the day for once! That's a change.
  19. Hatmatter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    That's a simplification. Jung was Freud's student and his work differs from Freud, but Freud is still the one who layed the foundation for all of Jung's work.

    More to the point, if you read Campbell's work, you'll see references to both Jung and Freud...I would say he refers to Freud at least as much as he does to Jung.

    D.
  20. Forcefire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2000
    star 4
  21. earlchinna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2004
    star 2
    much has already been said...I love the feeling of tension in this scene,and the interaction between anakin and obiwan....I also like the discussion between the 2 bounty hunters: the shot of coruscant at night remind me of the one at the end of rotj se + seeing those 2 bounty hunters creates a great ot feeling imo
    obi-wan jumping through the window is classic sw
    as said earlier, great setup for the chase
  22. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    I rewatched this chapter and despite my first opinion in 02, I like this Assassins more than before. Unlike some other posters, the composite shots on the ledge are impressive.
  23. Hades2021 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2003
    star 4
    I didn't notice anything wrong. I guess I'll have to go back and look at it.
  24. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). AOTC Chapter 7: Speeder Chase DISCUSSION will be made available 12:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
  25. ThrawnRocks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 6
    Great scene, not much more I can say.
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