AOTC Defense Force

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Strilo, May 9, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
  2. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yah! He needs to post more, being a SQUADRON LEADER..... :D

  3. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Sure thing and I have to say that after seeing ROTS four times it really make me enjoy AOTC even more. :)

    Heck for me all the movies are know richer and deeper then they ever were before. :)
  4. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I can agree with that. Sadly, one of my favorite scenes (the younglings) is now something that, after seeing ROTS, brings tears to my eyes.
  5. Sekotian_Jedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2005
    star 4
    I know...Those Kids are just so cute...and Anakin, being the idoit and selfish-dark-sider-jerk just has to kill them all...

    So sad...
  6. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Certainly the younglings only proved another valuable point - one which Yoda demonstrated quite effectively for Obi-Wan, in fact - namely, that sometimes the clear, innocent mind of a child, with no false presumptions, conceits or cynicism, can see things far more clearly than any adult ever could. It's a lack of presumption, too, and I personally find such clear perception on their part to be quite freeing. :) No doubt that's the kind of lesson, though, which could make even the most supposedly learned of Jedi Masters feel like they were back in the creche again....though I'm wondering if that kind of reality check, or attitude adjustment, might've come in very handy for some of 'em. ;)

    And, oh, by the way....I mean, since you *did* mention it ;) - in ROTS, in that younglings scene, watch Anakin's expression very closely....and you can *clearly* see that he's crying. Irregardless of anything else, yes, he's *crying* still....as he is over it all, later too....and that proves a great deal, right there. It says *everything*, I think, about struggle and torment....the utter anguish of feeling that there's no choice, and the pain of just - doing that, in general. It says *everything*, by my reckoning.... And, of course, it also has me dissolving in tears still *more*....I'm just saying....since, you know, it *was* brought up.... :)


    Dawn.
  7. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    I can agree with that. Sadly, one of my favorite scenes (the younglings) is now something that, after seeing ROTS, brings tears to my eyes.

    I have to admit I really like that scene to. I don't know what it is maybe it's the music. Maybe it's the way it was filmed I don't know but I would put it up there as being one of the best scenes GL filmed. :)
  8. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Anakin crying does not change the fact that he does evil things and is responsible for them. He becomes a very evil person.

  9. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    I look at the crying more as he knows what he is diong is wrong. But his good side is at that point fighting a losing battle. Becasue with each kill his hate and anger feed the Dark Side with in him. Then Palpatine gets what he wants.
  10. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Crying, my dear, and the obvious signs of grief and pain, are but very clear indicators of a tortured soul....one who is, as a matter of fact - to quote directly from Ian McDiarmid's little intro to the "Battle of the Heroes" cue on the ROTS soundtrack bonus DVD (just 'cause I can, tee hee!) - "overwhelmed by despair and suffering".... What it does, in the end, is only further drive home that very powerful, wracking, sheer-torture pain and confusion and utter, terrible hopelessness. What it does, indeed, is to grant further intense and very personal empathy with, and sympathy for, a soul in pain....vulnerable, lost, deeply and badly torn - and very much afraid. That, among other things, is what it proves.... You want to see a total lack of remorse or any human compassion? You want *evil*, par none? Look at Palpatine....heck, look even at Dooku. (though he's not nearly the pure sociopath that Palpatine obviously is) Sure says a lot right there, doesn't it?

    I must admit that I've always found Dooku very ominously fascinating; certainly it's due in great part to the fact that he's so gentlemanly in his demeanour, by and large....even when he's sentencing people to death, he's got this rather eerie, courtly and almost noble attitude about him, and I think that only makes what he does - what he, too, is responsible for - still more frightening and appalling, in the end. He's so soft-spoken and seductive, in fact, that I suppose it seems no wonder that he could sway a great many star systems over to the Confederacy.... True enough that he almost seems like a nice enough fellow - until one gets a closer look, that is. What a very frightening yet eerily compelling trap to fall into....brrrrrr! *shivers* Of course, for all his courtliness and sense of noble bearing, there are still those moments when he seems to lose it just a little - when his true cruelty and contemptuous evil comes through, just a little more.

    I'm reminded, as an example of this, of the way in which he taunts Obi-Wan in the midst of their fierce, no-holds-barred, go-for-broke duel....just the manner in which Dooku was goading, "Master Kenobi, you *disappoint* me! Yoda holds you in such high esteem..." - it's like the silken, insidious hiss of a serpent, really, almost sweet and honeyed in tone....but there's also that definite air of disdain and cold contempt to it, I think - the scorn for someone whom Dooku obviously considers beneath him, rellly not worthy of his time or effort. And, too, for that matter - the way in which he sneers, "*Surely* you can do better!" and the expression on his face, it just speaks very clearly of something very cruel and hateful....goading, provoking, fairly oozing contempt like poison. It's something which of course makes me recoil from Dooku all the more - as much as it also makes me *very* glad that Anakin gave him a real fight at the end there - and, yet, I also find it a very compelling thing about him....

    I fear to watch, perhaps, yet I cannot turn away....maybe that's what it is. ;) *wry look*


    Dawn.
  11. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8

    Oh I understand the grief and pain Anakin goes through but he kills those youngings out of greed for power to save HIMSELF from losing Padmé. I question whether he wants to save Padmé out of selfless love for her. Every time he talks about it, it's in terms of him. "I won't lose you Padme." "I won't lose you like I lost my mother." I won't.... me... I. He is doing it out of selfish motivations. That is the path to the Dark Side. There are much more powerful motivations for Anakin than pain, confusion and hopelessness. He is greedy, selfish and riddled with anger and fear. While I can understand WHY he makes the mistakes he does, and even feel somewhat sorry for him, I cannot condone his actions, nor feel bad about his tears when he murders little children.

  12. Sekotian_Jedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2005
    star 4
    I'm going to act like Strilo and say: "Lets get back on topic here, this is for defending AotCs, not discussing RotS. If you want to do that, go over to the RotS forum..."


    (Sorry Strilo, just wanted to say that... :) :p )

    ===

    On a more relivent subject: I personally say that one of AotC's major failings was that there wasn't enough musical scores to set the moods for such valent acts like the Jedi rescue or coming of the Clones...
  13. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    I would have to agree with you there.
  14. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Sekotian the problem there is that these Defense Forces and Love Story Defenders threads are largely social threads and as such, discussing something like ROTS is not off topic here.

  15. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    Anakin feels that deep pain within because he has done such horrible things. During that moment when he prepares to slaughter the children, he realizes that there is no turning back. He cannot undo what has already been done. He cannot forgive himself, and knows that no one else should either. He's becoming a monster - and rather than trying to fix what he has broken, he decides to embrace his anger and pain and turn it against all who stand in his way. All the death he caused was because he was selfish. He was afraid to let go of Padmé; he was afraid to see her die. As Yoda said, death is a natural part of life. Anakin let his greed take control of him and lead him down the wrong path.

    So yes, I think that Anakin feels a deep self-loathing, and even regret, but that doesn't change the fact that he is still to blame for all of it. Even once he learns he kills Padmé, it's all about him - HE doesn't want her to be dead. She accepted the fact that she was going to die. She was able to let go.
  16. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Bingo. Well said Matt.

  17. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Every time he talks about it, it's in terms of him. "I won't lose you Padme." "I won't lose you like I lost my mother."

    I believe until the point that he joins the Dark Side he really does want to save Padme out of love. But once he says ok to Palpaitne he forgets why he really wants to save Padme and does not really remember his love. Because at that point he is just looking for power.

    Before he just wanted to save her and sense he did not know if Luke and Leia would live or die them to.
  18. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    However, once he has the dream of her death, he is willing to do anything to stop it. Love did blind him in this instance. He was too blind to see what he was doing wrong until it was too late. He was selfish; he did not want the one HE loved to be "taken from him." Had he chosen to accept the inevitability of death and understand that it was entirely possible, though not assured, that Padmé would die, she may have lived. It was his selfishness and greed that drove him to the dark side. That same selfishness and greed is what led to him Force-choking her on Mustafar.

    If he had not taken those steps down the dark path, it is entirely possible that she would not have died.
  19. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Anakin's selfishness does not start with his turn to the dark side. It's ongoing.

    TPM: "What will happen to me now?" Instead of being concerned for the death of Qui-Gon, he's thinking about himself.

    AOTC: Everything he says at his mother's funeral is about himself, NOT about her.

  20. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    TPM: "What will happen to me now?" Instead of being concerned for the death of Qui-Gon, he's thinking about himself.

    But we should also remember that he was only 9 and at the time Qui-Gon was like a father to him. So when he dead he did not know what was going to happen to him or were he would go. He was free but all he knew was that the Jedi did not want him. That was until Obi-wan said he would train him.

    AOTC: Everything he says at his mother's funeral is about himself, NOT about her.

    He was thinking about her in the sense he wanted to save her but could not and was blaming himself feeling that he falied her. I see Anakin as someone who wants to be loved and love others.

    But I guess we will just have to agree to disagree with this one. ;)
  21. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I see that in times of stress the first thought he has is about himself. His selfishness was well established before ROTS. Ordinarily it's something people grow out of as they get older. In Anakin's case it consumes him.

  22. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    True to a point.

    But any ways there was something I did want to know becasue well it was talked about a bit in the TPM thread. What do you an dever on else here think of the TV ads for AOTC?

    I thought they were good though not as great as the TPM ones. :)
  23. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    Yeah, I think that TPM had better ads than AOTC as well. They weren't bad, but just not up to par. However, the ROTS ads are my overall favorites. There were a ton of them, and they really captured the mood for the film going into it.
  24. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I really like the TV ads for AOTC as well. Still it's tough to beat those TPM Tone Poems...

  25. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    That's ture but I guess I'm more for both the TPM and AOTC TV ads then the ROTS ones.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.