AOTC - From a Writer's POV

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthLascivious, May 23, 2002.

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  1. Sbuck143 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 1
    Boboli -

    I throw my hat back in the ring to throw some support your way. Your post above, I agree with.

    There is only one person who sets the rules for these movies and that is Lucas. He has said I don't know how many times, that he is writing these movies as part of an overall saga...his vision is that of one 12 hr long story...with 6 acts. You can't really say anything definitively until the entire set is complete. Remember he has said that some things in Episode III will forever change the way you look at all the other films.

    In a way, analyzing each episode here is very much like trying to analyze each chapter of a book as if they were stand alone short stories. Things just weren't set up that way. Especially since the chapters are so dependent on each other,and even more so given that one of the chapters is still missing.

    GL isn't writing these as standard movies; to try to analyze them as such is a little like critiquing a round peg that doesn't fit in the square hole you think it should, isn't it?

    SB


  2. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    GL isn't writing these as standard movies...[i/]

    And I'm not trying to critique them as standard movies... I'm critiquing them as movies, plain and simple. I'm mentioning overall problems that I had with THIS section of his story, and how I felt he could have addressed these problems with little or no overall change in the storyline. I'm not advocating removal of characters or changes in their motivation -- in fact, part of the fun (for me, at least) is imagining myself as a writer brought in to polish the scipt - a Jonathan Hales, as it were - or perhaps an editor brought in to work with Lucas and Burtt. Given the elements that are more or less in place, what can I do to make it better? I can't add or remove major characters or scenes.... but I can tweak things to make the pacing better, increase motivation, and make the whole thing more DRAMATIC. That's what this is all about, drama and creating intense emotion in the audience.

    So, picture this: Han is about to be frozen, and he and Leia are saying goodbye. For all they know, it's forever -- who knows what Jabba will do to Han, and Leia is now a prisoner of Vader and the Empire. Do they start babbling away in earnest turns of phrases explaining how the deepest part of their heart feels now that they will be apart? No! The whole dialogue is 3 simple words, 3 by him and 2 by her, carried by a brilliant score by Williams. That is economy of language and THAT is what filmmaking strives to do -- as filmmakers, we have a limited amount of time to tell a story, and we need to communicate things to the audience as efficiently as possible. That mere exchange tightens up the scene, makes it MORE dramatic, MORE emotional, improves pacing, and does so with smooth economy.

    THAT is what I'm talking about -- saying that someone can't critique AOTC because it's only a single chapter in the story and we "don't understand Lucas' concept" is moot.
  3. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    Hey Sbuck,well said! Thanks for the support. I'm glad I'm not all alone. LOL I was beginning to wonder if I was the insane one!

    Telemachos, you make some valid points, but I really don't think it's fair to compare any movie to ESB though. In my mind ESB is maybe the greatest movie ever made, no joke. So, to compare anything to ESB is, to me, is just crazy. It's like saying, if someone makes a painting and its not as good as the Mona Lisa, then it is terrible.




  4. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4
    I love reading threads like this.

    First of all, Anakin's dialogue in the fireplace scene is SUPPOSED to be awkward and clumsy! Duh! He's a twenty year old kid, a virgin, who's been pining away in fantasyland for 10 years over a woman he met when he was about 9 years old! He has no experience with women and he talks the way he thinks he should in that situation. That's the way it's supposed to sound. It's pretty overly dramatic stuff isn't it? That dialogue is entirely appropriate to his character in that situation.

    Writer's over-intellectualize and analyze movies to the point it's hilarious. Scripts are important on one level, but for George getting Yoda's facial expressions right by working closely with the CGI artists is just as important as the story arc, or the movie won't work.

    Secondly, there's nothing more amusing that reading aspiring screenwriter's opinions of work BY A PROFESSIONAL. All movies are visuals, but even more so with STAR WARS. I'll bet George spent a lot more time with Doug Chiang and ILM getting the visuals right than he did with Jonathan Hale on the script. Which is smart. STAR WARS movies are first and foremost visual films, followed by plot and music, with dialogue running about 4th place in the hierarchy.

    There are plenty of threads here with people quoting their favorite lines and moments. I started one of them myself. So while dialogue is not important, there's still lots of cool nuggets in AOTC that people will cherish for decades.

    The writing is good in the confession scene, but you know what sells that scene? HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN'S performance. Writer's have a tendency to forget no matter what they put down on a page, ultimately a real live human being will have to sit down and figure out the best and most effective way of saying their words, or playing the scene, and that the contribution of the actors, in conjunction with the director, holds just as much importance as those precious words you're typing on the word processor.

    I am an agent and at our agency we receive about 100 scripts a month from know-it-all writers who have taken a lot of classes and seen a lot of movies and 99% of those scripts are trash!!! Almost EVERY ONE OF THEM IS OVER-WRITTEN!!!! They forget the visual and the humanity while diagramming the plot and all that stuff. We send them back and say MOVE US and excite us with your creativity and imagery. Scriptwriting is NOT an exact science. Keep it simple, emotional and visual and you got a great movie.
  5. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    > I am an agent and at our agency and we receive about 100 scripts a month from know-it-all writers who have taken a lot of courses and seen a lot of movies and 99% of them are trash. Almost EVERY ONE OF THEM IS OVER WRITTEN!!!!

    LOL !!! This thread just keeps getting better ! Keep it up !

    Not a critique of this thread which has been extremely well written, but the above quote reminds me of a theme in most of the threads and articles about Star Wars in general , and George Lucas.

    EVERYBODY, seems to think they can do a better job at creating a Star Wars movie than Lucas. I find that extremely hilarious and ironic at the same time. We've got threads about what scenes should be deleted, to why digital is bad, to why more screens should have been attained by Lucas, to why X character should have appeared first, to why the title is wrong, to why the CGI is wrong, to why he should have used people in costumes for clone troopers (hahaha), etc.

    It's incredible. I guess so much criticism either means that Lucas totally blows or that he's a genious. :)

    OK, back to regular programming ....
  6. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    nice post Augusto, whats that line, seems appropriate here..

    "you can please all of the people some of the time...

    and you can please some of the people all of the time...

    BUT you can never please all of the people all of the time"

    somethin like that.

    I'm sure Lucas has that tattooed somewhere.
  7. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    As a writer myself, I feel I should clarify and write a bit upon the original post, some of which I do not agree with:

    PLOT

    Kudos to George and Hales for avoiding the four-plots at once method from the ending of TPM.


    While it is true that this worked better this time around than TPM, it is incorrect to assume the four-point plot could not be done, and in fact could not be done better than AOTC. In fact, the finale of TPm was very well paced: the problem was that the audience had trouble identifying with the characters. One more scene of maul dialogue would have made a hell of a difference in order to put Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan against a very dangerous character. Lucas has ample oppertunity too: when Maul returns to Naboo from Tatooine before the heroes. A great oppertinity was lost to see Maul interact with the cowardly Nimoidians.


    CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

    Not so good is the lack of character development through each respective arc. Let?s first establish that one arc consists of Anakin and Padme, and other consists of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Clearly, Anakin and Padme change, or are supposed to change, over the course of their arc; Obi-Wan does not. Discovering new information does not constitute character development unless it changes the character?s perceptions and their actions in the future.


    Obi-Wan's is a detective story: in detective stories character development is often not explored, as the PI is a mover for the plot. The PI is often static in order to provide a reliable view of the mystery. Such as it is with Obi-Wan-- his journey is not showcasing his character, which as a Jedi is by definition quite flat-- but the downfall of the Republic. Obi-Wan serves as the droids in this repect: it is though his eyes we see the Republic crumble, but like the droids he goes through only marginal change himself.

    Which is not to say his characte does NOT change, which it does: only it has done so offscreen. Like Luke and Han in ESB, there has actually been subtle development in the characters from the previous movie. Luke was no longer such a stupid kid, and Han was now a more responsible sort to go out after his friends. Obi-Wan has gone from oversure Padawan to cynical and streetwise Jedi Master.

    But Anakin and Padme change in a way that feels forced and, well, written. ?Written? is a term used to imply that, on the screen, one can almost see the script writer feverishly trying to make everything work, resulting in a script that is labored, dull, and a series of encounters... But then, over the course of the trip to Naboo and Tattooine, they express their love in ways both awkward and strange and, sadly, clichéd.

    The funny thing about it is that the lines had only to be changed so little to avoid cliche. Anakin's lines should have been written incomplete and faltering. Some of the lines were quite usable, such as the point where he asks her to tell him what to do: they need only have been worded differently. The actual concepts were quite solid: their love is far more symbolic and ideal than Han and Leia. Han and Leia fall in love in the real world. Padme and Anakin fall in love with a fantasy. That is the entire reason for the Naboo sequence.

    His decision to go to the Tusken Camp seems like an afterthought, and his reaction on coming back is too short. I also wish that his decision to go to Tattooine had been prompted by more than a dream. Yes, he?s been having them all along, but?.

    Your statement should be qualified: his decision to go to the Tusken camp does NOT come across as an afterthought, but to go to Tatooine at all. However, the trip to Naboo was also necessary. In order to reconcile this, what Lucas should have done was make the dream point more prominent, and that it was intensifying. They should have been mentioned at least once more before Naboo, most likely on the trip there. Anakin dream sequence should have been filmed more creatively-- best to have him pacing around his room at night then make up as we saw him, then see him calm again in the daylight.
  8. Fitten trim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    DarthKarma,

    You wrote:
    "Scripts are important on one level, but for George getting Yoda's facial expressions right by working closely with the CGI artists is just as important as the story arc..."

    "I'll bet George spent a lot more time with Doug Chiang and ILM getting the visuals right than he did with Jonathan Hale on the script. Which is smart"




    If my accident, we cross paths... Please don't represent me! And don't say these things to your clients, if you want to stay in business.


  9. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    THE LOVE STORY

    Let?s look at the ORDER of the scenes:

    AMIDALA PACKS ? The scene ends with Amidala telling Ani to ?Stop looking at me like that. It makes me uncomfortable.? Ani may smile, but the main impression is that she WAS uncomfortable with him.

    ANI/AMIDALA SAY GOODBYE TO FRIENDS ? They?re both nervous about their upcoming journey, BUT they seem at ease with each other. NO SIGN of the discomfort that Amidala showed the last time we saw her.


    The discomfort was alluded to previously before the attempt on Amidala's life. However, so was the fact that she and Anakin were communicating (they both agreed to use her as bait). It's already established they have like sort of minds. Also, let's not go overboard on continuity. Amidala was uncomfortable, not creeped out. Not to the point she had made a character judgement about him. This is removed when Anakin makes the very important ice-breaker about R2 towards the end of this scene. That coupled with the fact there is a lot more going on here does away with those feelings. I don't think this is inconsistent at all. In fact, suggesting there is is in danger of an overconsistency.


    ANI/AMIDALA ON THE CRUISER ? The attraction is very slight? Ani attempts to be charming and make her smile. He?s flirting.

    ANI/AMIDALA WALK TO THE PALACE ? Mainly exposition, but Ani?s flirting has suddenly disappeared! He compliments her work in the Senate? but he does so from a position of intelligence Jedi-wannabe, rather than from a position of charming flirtatious man.


    Again, this is perfectly natural. Anakin does not have to flirt all the time-- this would be over-continuous if it got in the way of how this develops. Not to mention that he IS flirting anyway, but in a more serius way. He is complimenting her: he is letting her know he respects her. This is a method Han never had in his bag of tricks.

    ANI/AMIDALA MEET THE NEW QUEEN ? Their interaction is this scene revolves around Amidala?s crushing blow to Ani?s ego ?He?s not a Jedi.? Ani?s hurt and Amidala doesn?t even appear to feel bad that she hurt him. The scene continues with them getting into a ?power struggle.?

    Which is natural, really. Especially with these two, Senator and Jedi. It is natural for her to challenge his power, and natural for him to try and regain it (the opposite, however, would NOT be natural. He would never try to challenge her power if she clearly retained it, and she would not try to regain power she may have once had, else you would see more of this sort of thing after the Tusken scene, which you don't).

    Let?s STOP and see what we have: one scene, Amidala?s creeped out by Ani, the next she appears receptive to his charms. She?s inconsistent. Half the time they seem to fight/Half the time they are the exact opposite and are playful flirting with each other. Let?s progress.

    I really think this analysis is skewed, and more than a bit unnatural. It really forces the characters to stick to who they are in every respect in every scene and not to an overall view.

    ANI/AMIDALA FIRST KISS - Despite the fact that the last time we saw them, they appeared to be fighting, they now seem at ease with each other and in fact, are drawn to a kiss. BUT in the most important moment, Amidala pulls away. Now this should really affect her? she just kissed somebody and realized it was wrong. This would make her incredibly UNCOMFORTABLE AROUND HIM, but in the next scene---

    What this is is a return of the flirting they had earlier. The fight is brief and over nothing overly special. If anyone would have repercussive feelings over it it would be Anakin, who obviously has a larger goal in mind.

    ANI/AMIDALA PICNIC ? SOUND OF MUSIC ? Now, if you had just had an uncomfortable moment with someone? would you go on a picnic with them. Would you playfully talk about ex-boyfriends and such? Anyway, this scene gets back to the fun play flirting and the dialogue isn?t that bad.

    Unfortunately you're not picking up on the point that Padme is in denial. This
  10. jewlmc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    "Han's motivations falter towards the end of ROTJ.."

    How so? His ordeal in the carbonite changed him as did Leia and the Rebellion in general. He wants to fight for their cause for many reasons... Certain times when you get into changing motivations like his, or Lando's for example that is more aligned with *character growth*. So I don't think you can really compare.


    2,000th POST!!!!!!!!!!
  11. Jedi Chikara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 1999
    star 4
    "Plot Outline: A group of young filmmakers encounter a serial killer while shooting their first independent movie."

    Original stuff there Fitten. ;)
  12. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    How so? His ordeal in the carbonite changed him as did Leia and the Rebellion in general.

    Ah, LEIA changed him. LUKE changed him. The rebellion never really does. He's there because his friends are there, but Han's character is never one of a freedom fighter. He has friends who are freedom fighters, and his motivation is them. His motivation lacks in the latter half of ROTJ because he's no longer personally involved in the action, it's all about him helping the motivations of Leia and Luke. Even Lando has motivation in the final battle: he has, as we see in the short briefing scene, become a bona-fide freedom fighter. Han is more... just there. People seem to throw responsibility at him and he shrugs-- which is good, that's his character. But that doesn't mean Endor is a place of serious motivation for him.
  13. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    I really don't think it's fair to compare any movie to ESB though. In my mind ESB is maybe the greatest movie ever made, no joke.

    Well, I don't, though it's pretty damn good. But why on earth shouldn't Lucas strive to make the best film ever made? Why shouldn't he attempt to outdo TESB?

    Furthermore, while an above poster is right, it's easy to say we could do better, this is also the stuff of criticism: taking an honest and forthright approach and discussing all the elements of the film. Also, people are putting reasons and examples forth -- sure, some contradict each other and it wouldn't be possible to use them all (and it's also impossible to please all people with everything), but there are some really good suggestions here and I think (and so do others) that AOTC could have been improved.
  14. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    Jedi Chikara

    >> "Plot Outline: A group of young filmmakers encounter a serial killer while shooting their first independent movie."

    >> Original stuff there Fitten.

    double LOL !!! :-D
  15. Fitten trim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    Gonk,

    I'm afraid I find your response skewed and more than a bit unnatural.

    While yes, people have many sides and act diffently depending on the situation... in a narrative structure, it is INCREDIBLY unusual to cut from a scene of two people playfully happy and flirting to a scene of the same two people in an argument WITHOUT SHOWING what has caused their change!

    And how can I tackle your "Padme's in denial" ??? Except to say that where you 'see' denial, I see an inconsistantly -written character.

    Anakin's diatribe in the garage that "It's all Obi-Wan's fault" is denial. Its not Obi-Wan's fault, as Lucas the narrator has made perfectly clear. Point to ANYTHING where Amidala is presented in similar fashion, and maybe I'll go along with your theory.

    Note: even if Lucas is trying to present Amidala as "in denial", he's certainly executed poorly, you might agree?




    EDIT: I was a hired hand: paid to write a "typical slasher flick." Like Han Solo, I was in it for the money (but unlike Han, I didn't end up with a coccaine snorting princess). When you get paid $ to write a script, just send me the link on IMDB.com, I'll be sure to compliment your originality. ;)
  16. Zanath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 1
    "and I think (and so do others) that AOTC could have been improved."

    Of course. All movies can be improved, in some way or another. IMO, there has never been a perfect film, mainly because humans are not perfect. Never will be. I think it is possible to love a movie, and yet, at the same time, you can see room for improvement.

  17. Sbuck143 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 1
    Telemachos -

    Your points are valid and I see where you're coming from, but I think one thing is getting lost here. Plot development, pacing, and thematic elements aside, Star Wars is first and foremost a fairy tale, directed at children (straight from Lucas' mouth). Fairy tales have a very specific purpose of teaching morals or values to children in such a way that they understand and *accept* it, and don't even realize they're learning something. Kind of like giving your pet a pill wrapped in cheese; it's the only way its getting in there without a fight. Give it to them straight up and its getting spit right out on to the floor.

    Children don't need, want, much less understand complex love stories, nor do they grasp the intricacies of complex intrapersonal relationships. In fairy tales, the good guys wear white, the bad guys wear black and the neutral guys are few and far between. You can tell almost everything you need to know about someone based on their name and their appearance. Their sole purpose is to relay whatever moral or set of values is to be relayed. In the Star Wars saga, those morals relate to having the courage to go out and do things you never thought you could. At the same time it tries to drive home the point that the decisions you make are important to where you end up, and that the hardest decisions also have the biggest ability to change your life. In the OT, Luke makes the right decisions and all ends up well. The prequels will parallel with Anakin making the wrong decisions (which we have already seen some of), and we know where that ends up.

    You can say alot of this or that could have been vastly improved, but to what end? To make it a better movie, or to make it a better fairy tale? You would have taken one route, Lucas has apparently taken another.

    I'd venture a guess that 95% or more of us here were hooked on Star Wars as kids. Now we are here almost 20 yrs later trying to make SW grow up just as we did. The second and third viewings of AotC I had were on a Sat and Sun morning, both teeming with kids. I saw the looks in their eyes and was reminded of what it felt like when I was 8 and watching SW on the big screen. For all that we would like to have "improved" about it, I don't think you can call it a failure in its current state. Maybe the target audience was not anyone who would frequent an internet forum.

    SB
  18. QuiGonJinn84 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 1999
    star 2
    I think what it comes down to is that you have to believe Padme's confession before the execution. If you don't believe what she is saying, even if it isnt true love, even if it is just a puppy love or a flimsy love, you have to believe that on some level she loves Anakin.

    If you believe it, then you can look back at what made you believe it - the script, the chemistry, the 'looks, all of it combined, whatever. But if you don't believe that moment, well, then the whole love story just doesn't work. I'd like to argue that a major point of it is that it's supposed to be rushed, they arent supposed to be in love at all. Well...Lucas says its a love story. They are supposed to be (in some way) in love.

    If you believe that confession, and if you believe Anakin's feelings (which I dont think anyone has a problem with) then the love story is a success. I'm not sure I do. I'll know Saturday night.
  19. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    Sbuck143...I think I love you LOL You may be my long lost twin brother or sister!

    FINALLY someone else out there gets it! I'm not alone! wooohooo lol

  20. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    Star Wars is first and foremost a fairy tale, directed at children (straight from Lucas' mouth).

    Agreed.

    Children don't need, want, much less understand complex love stories, nor do they grasp the intricacies of complex intrapersonal relationships.

    Although being an adult, that's of course what I would strive for, yes, I understand. However, that's not even what I'm arguing. At a basic storytelling level, Lucas took a few shortcuts and instead of showing us a dramatic situation, he told us about it. As a result the pacing of the film suffers a bit.

    In fairy tales, the good guys wear white, the bad guys wear black and the neutral guys are few and far between.

    Yes, but of course Lucas (wisely) already voided this argument by making Anakin/Vader sympathetic, no? Furthermore, a great many fables and children's stories contain subtle nuances that can affect the adults as well as children. The Narnia Chronicles, for one, or Peter Pan.

    In the Star Wars saga, those morals relate to having the courage to go out and do things you never thought you could. At the same time it tries to drive home the point that the decisions you make are important to where you end up, and that the hardest decisions also have the biggest ability to change your life.

    Agreed, but what does this have to do with our discussion at hand?

    You can say alot of this or that could have been vastly improved, but to what end? To make it a better movie, or to make it a better fairy tale? You would have taken one route, Lucas has apparently taken another.

    No, I argue that from a storytelling standpoint they are one and the same. I'm not thematically changing anything -- I'm simply tightening the dialogue and swapping a few scenes around. It's simply a case of visual storytelling and the best way to go about it.

    I'd venture a guess that 95% or more of us here were hooked on Star Wars as kids. Now we are here almost 20 yrs later trying to make SW grow up just as we did.

    Of course. I came to that realization and accepted it back with TPM. I'm not trying to re-create my childhood experiences with AOTC, I'm simply pointing out that Lucas could've (very easily) tightened it up. I also don't buy that you make a movie only for children. The finest "children's" films ever (and of course I include the OT in this), work for everyone, adults of all ages as well as children.

    For all that we would like to have "improved" about it, I don't think you can call it a failure in its current state. Maybe the target audience was not anyone who would frequent an internet forum.

    Come come. Lucas has said (and I agree) that these stories are for all ages. I'm not necessarily calling it a failure either. I think it has flaws (which I've pointed out, as well as some solutions to those flaws), and while it's a very enjoyable summer film (particularly compared to normal summer films), I don't think that in 20 years it will be compared to SW or TESB by anyone. IMHO.
  21. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    Well, I don't, though it's pretty damn good. But why on earth shouldn't Lucas strive to make the best film ever made? Why shouldn't he attempt to outdo TESB?

    I agree with you. I am just saying if it is'nt at that same level, that does'nt mean it is bad. It is just different.

    I'm saying that you are holding it up to pretty high standards and expectations.

    I think you could put all the people involved together and ask them to make another movie, and 99 times out of a hundred you arent going to hit gold like that.

    What most people on here are saying is, make the OT again. That is the only way the PT could live up to the OT. He would also get hammered just as much because everyone would say he just copied himself.


  22. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    I agree with you. I am just saying if it is'nt at that same level, that does'nt mean it is bad. It is just different.

    Yup. I don't think it's bad either -- I'd give it *** out of ****.
  23. Riley Man Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 5
    I just got back from my third viewing. Heh took my parents to see it. ;)

    One thing regarding the whole love story, specifically the fireplace scene, is that most people seem to agree the dialog here could be better. I think it could almost just be shortened -- start with Padme shifting uncomfortably, and Anakin stammering a little, and then straight to Padme getting up and saying "I can't, we can't. I will not give into this." etc. Anakin's dialog before this is just trying too hard to be formal and proper, almost like they were trying to write like Shakespeare. It's more than just awkward, I think it's completely out of place.
  24. Fitten trim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    While this isn't the 'correct' thread, I'd love to know what your parents thought of the movie!
  25. DarthLascivious Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    Hey. Nice to see a lot of intelligent comments. The points about Naboo are well-put and taken into consideration, but I still think we could have done without it.

    I agree with Telemachos on a point. These movies always have appealed across generations and some of the finest "children's" books, movies, etc., can be enjoyed as adults. I would put Star Wars in that category, including AOTC. But a story is a story, and is the precise reason that a book or movie can appeal to so many.
    Also, while I see the point that these movies should be viewed together (and agree that they ultimately will)- they are still released one at a time, and I initially see them one at a time. Each one has to work in and of itself. And believe me, I feel that overall, AOTC did. But I think the script could have been improved to make it even better, and as a writer, I'm interested in what other people think.

    Which brings me to Darth Karma (all script in quotes are from his post - sorry, haven't figured out these whacky things you guys do with these whacky computers :))

    "I love reading threads like this."

    -Me too! Wait, this is saracasm.

    "First of all, Anakin's dialogue in the fireplace scene is SUPPOSED to be awkward and clumsy! Duh! He's a twenty year old kid, a virgin, who's been pining away in fantasyland for 10 years over a woman he met when he was about 9 years old! He has no experience with women and he talks the way he thinks he should in that situation. That's the way it's supposed to sound. It's pretty overly dramatic stuff isn't it? That dialogue is entirely appropriate to his character in that situation."

    -Yeah, I kept telling myself that, too, but then I thought of a list of good movies where teens "non-express" themselves much more believably (Ghost World and Ice Storm pop into mind). In fact, I think Anakin's lines are sound too smart and studied.

    "Writer's over-intellectualize and analyze movies to the point it's hilarious. Scripts are important on one level, but for George getting Yoda's facial expressions right by working closely with the CGI artists is just as important as the story arc, or the movie won't work."

    -In this movie, yes, the visuals MUST work, but this thread was about the script. Which doesn't, IMHO, work as well as it could. Writer's over-intellectualize and analyze movies to figure out what works and what doesn't. That's how we learn.

    "Secondly, there's nothing more amusing that reading aspiring screenwriter's opinions of work BY A PROFESSIONAL. All movies are visuals, but even more so with STAR WARS. I'll bet George spent a lot more time with Doug Chiang and ILM getting the visuals right than he did with Jonathan Hale on the script. Which is smart. STAR WARS movies are first and foremost visual films, followed by plot and music, with dialogue running about 4th place in the hierarchy."

    -So when something is published by a professional then it is untouchable? I agree that dialogue is #4, but notice that you put plot #2. In fact, a really great movie has all of these things working very well together. And though I am still breathing after your first sentence hear, be careful not to make this too personal, my friend. You don't know who you're talking to and what we do, what we have written, where are in our careers, etc..

    "There are plenty of threads here with people quoting their favorite lines and moments. I started one of them myself. So while dialogue is not important, there's still lots of cool nuggets in AOTC that people will cherish for decades."

    -I know, there's certainly a couple in this one, too. Again, not really the point.

    "The writing is good in the confession scene, but you know what sells that scene? HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN'S performance. Writer's have a tendency to forget no matter what they put down on a page, ultimately a real live human being will have to sit down and figure out the best and most effective way of saying their words, or playing the scene, and that the contribution of the actors, in conjunction with the director, holds just a
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