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AOTC is a phantom movie: Why some people don't like it.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Storm5, May 19, 2002.

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  1. BrendanWOR

    BrendanWOR Jedi Youngling star 2

    Apr 24, 2002
    Christovsky, what the hell is "ATOC"? Attack The Of Clones? Maybe before you start bashing a movie, you should actually work out what that movie is.
  2. ECM_Boba_Fett

    ECM_Boba_Fett Jedi Youngling star 3

    Feb 16, 2002
    I am a hard core SW fan. First generation and I agree with REES and CHRIST. The movie was put together bad, I am glad I also have it on my computer so I can fast forward to the good parts. In the theatre i was wishing I had a remote to fast forward it to the end.

    I am sick of all this people calling us that dont like it non fans and we didnt understand it.

    Well thats not true because I believe its the everyday fan that likes it and the ones that grew up with the OT and know the SW universe inside and out are the ones who dont like it.

    Way to go the two of you you read my mind
  3. ECM_Boba_Fett

    ECM_Boba_Fett Jedi Youngling star 3

    Feb 16, 2002
    Speeling mistake dont bash him on it. If thats the only thing you can bash him on I guess hes right!

    (So are you going to bash me on my spelling mistake?)
  4. Jemmiah

    Jemmiah Jedi Master star 5

    Mar 5, 2000
    You are pefectly entitled not to like AOTC. It's your right! :)

    But as for this statement:

    "I believe its the everyday fan that likes it and the ones that grew up with the OT and know the SW universe inside and out are the ones who dont like it..."

    Ahem! I grew up with the OT. I love the OT! I know the OT inside out.

    And I adore the prequels! And so, I think, do many others! :) :) :)


    P.S: Ewan's Obi-Wan is tops!

  5. AlderaanOnline

    AlderaanOnline Jedi Youngling star 1

    Feb 15, 2002
    Ree Yees says: Another 'Episode 2' plot hole is the whole Lars family thing. Owen doesn't recognize 3P0. Yes, so 3P0 is golden in 'ANH', it's still a plot hole.

    Once again, grasping for plotholes that aren't. Why would Owen recognize 3PO? Beyond the fact that they are different colors, there are hundreds of thousands of protocol droids out in the galaxy who look just like 3PO.

    If you owned a particular car model 20 years ago, I suppose everytime the same model drove past you 20 years later (and of a different color) you scream 'that must be the one I owned'! How ridiculous.
  6. TheDarkSkull

    TheDarkSkull Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 12, 2002
    The reason why Sidious was surprized of Padme at Naboo was, Padme had only brought like 15 guys with her. He was surprized that Padme was that foolish to think that she could defeat an intire army with only a couple of soldiers. And don't call that Jar Jar's people were the army so Sidious still should've not been surprized because he didn't know about them. And plus even if he knew of them, which he didn't, those 2 cultures have been enemies for years.

    And please explain to me how "ATOC" is a clone of TPM. I don't recall any love stories, Jango Fett battles, Jedi meditation to the dead, Tusken slaughters, or Gladiatior fights in TPM. Nor remember any podracing, Naboo invation, Star fighter battles, in AOTC. Please explain the "clone" like simularities that make TPM and AOTC that make them the same.
  7. Jedi Daniel

    Jedi Daniel Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Apr 7, 2000
    It's obvious that Christovsky and Ree Yees are not true Star Wars fans otherwise they would make up such lame plot holes and pick the crap out of the movie. Just enjoy it for what it is.
  8. Nerak

    Nerak Jedi Youngling star 3

    Apr 28, 2002
    Phantom was a good story but with the lassy kid, here boy here boy. Wait no...I mean Jack lyoud, Yeppieee. What a bad kid to pick for young Anakin. And nother thing is Jar Jar, I know his charater makes sense but, doesa he gotaa talkie likey thata. And the fart joke, what the hell was that

    REBEL_SKUM Jedi Youngling star 2

    Sep 20, 2000
    Anyone here a trumpet sounding?

    let the bashing begin YAY!!! :(
  10. deltau922

    deltau922 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 19, 1999
    Jeeez, quit overanalyzing. People either liked it or disliked it for the same reason they either like or dislike mustard on their hotdogs: PERSONAL PREFERENCE. The thing to analyze is why people who hated it can't farking stop talking about it on the Internet.
  11. Storm5

    Storm5 Jedi Master star 4

    May 9, 2000
    AOTC feels a bit incoherent but that's the way it should be. It has a very linear story but it all leads to more questions and not to answers. Which is great of course cuz we have one more movie to go.
  12. SLAVE2

    SLAVE2 Jedi Knight star 5

    Apr 6, 2000
    Those plot holes listed are not plo holes, merely personal grudges against choices Lucas made.

    REBEL_SKUM Jedi Youngling star 2

    Sep 20, 2000
    Anakin did not go to rescue his mother earlier because he didn't realise she was in pain, and he was also kinda busy being a jedi.

    As far as owen recognizing 3PO does it really matter, there is still time to explain it, however even if it isn't explained big deal he didn't remember a droid from 20 years ago after talking to him for 5 seconds. I think I can move on with my life.

    AOTC made TPM better in another way not mentioned, it ads depth to qui-gon's character even after he is dead.

    Do you really think that GL doesn't recognize that 3P0 and owen thing? Do you really think he didn't think it through a little?

  14. VladTheImpaler

    VladTheImpaler Jedi Padawan star 4

    Apr 13, 2000
    >>>but that's not the worst part...

    ...people actually thought it was good!<<<

    That's the worst part? The fact that people like a movie? Jesus, is your life so bereft of joy that it devastates you to see people having a good time with something as little as a scifi movie?

    I myself thought it was wasn't boring at all, I thought the pacing was on the mark, the story is lightyears beyond anything in the OT, and this is coming from a die-hard OT fan, the direction was good(despite some corny love scenes, this movie had the most powerful performances of any Star Wars movie)...what more do you want?

    Oh, and the editing was wonderful. It seems like "editing" has been reduced to a buzzword that people say when they have to describe something they don't like about a movie, even if they know nothing about editing(I'm not necessarily talking about you, I'm just saying I've heard this from other people). The true mark of a well-edited picture is to watch it with the sound off...can you still follow what's happening? Obviously I can't turn down the volume at my local movie theater, but still, pay attention to the visuals--you always know exactly what's going on.

    The Obi meeting Jango scene--even without the mysterious music, and even without the dialogue--uses quick cuts between the two characters(and occassionally to Boba, trying to make sense of the situation) in such a way that you can FEEL the tension.

    To be honest, the only editing flaw I could find, is during the transition from Anakin on Tatooine to Obi-Wan on Geonosis. When I first watched it, I assumed it was a time-lapse, and we were still following Anakin. But it only took a few seconds to figure out it was Obi-Wan. Really not a big deal.
  15. hootie2

    hootie2 Jedi Youngling

    May 17, 2002
    Hey unlike the phantom menace there are some very good scenes in this movie.
    I did enjoy the movie i just don't get the older fans saying this movie was fantastic.
    I am an older fan myself and this movie is good but is very badly written compared to older movies.
    I think the reason why there is such a vocal opinion against the film is that:

    1. Some fans just want thier opinion heard so the next one is made better.

    2. Some fans do not wish to continue the trend of dumbing down summer movies.

    3. Some of you so-called fans get so defensive when we say we didn't like the movies its just fun. ;)
  16. Razorback

    Razorback Jedi Youngling star 5

    Oct 2, 2001
    The plot hole argument in this thread is so bad I doubt I could ever take anything Ree says seriously again.

    Come on... you could do better than that.

    Some of you so-called fans get so defensive when we say we didn't like the movies its just fun

    Oh and hootie.. that statement proves you are a troll.

  17. funky-gonk-droid

    funky-gonk-droid Jedi Youngling star 1

    Apr 6, 2002
    I agree with you Vlad, that section threw me as well, after Anakin on the swoop bike and the long shot of him with the two sand crawlers, I was expecting the pan down to be on tatooine instead of course we went back to Geonosis. But hey maybe Lucas did that on purpose. I thought the editing in AOTC was spot on, and from the Arena battle to the end of the movie the editing is just inspired IMHO. I can't really see the plothole argument as there is still an Episode to go, which is likely to tie up a lot of loose threads, although I don't think there is that many.
  18. Darth_Morfyus1999

    Darth_Morfyus1999 Jedi Youngling

    Mar 16, 2002
    I think that you need to realize that GL never promised you the face of God when watching these movies.

    You want plotholes? Why didn't Vader lift Luke out of the Cloud City pitfall using the Force? He's the strongest Jedi, he could do that.

    Why didn't Obi-Wan go to the Lars house and get Luke before Owen and Beru died?

    Tarkin said that Vader is "all that's left of their religion." What about Obi-Wan and Yoda? Sounds like a plothole to me.

    Why did Obi-Wan tell Luke that Vader killed Anakin when he didn't? There's a plothole in the beloved ESB. Why not nit pick that?

    Oh wait, I know RotJ clears it up! Duh! The same way Episode 3 will clear up all the questions we still have after AotC.

    Or, maybe each of the prequels should be half an hour of action and 2 hours of discussion. That way, you'd be able to understand what's going on. I think GL would be better off to make one movie where they just sit around and talk and explain things. Of course, then you'd complain that there is no action in it and wish it turned out the way it actually did.

    Take all the EU books you have and are obsessed with and burn them, or sell them or give them away. Those books are crap and reading them only puts sucky plotlines in peoples head. Maybe you're upset because Boba Fett wasn't Journey Man Protector Jaster Mareel?

    I think it's a shame people can't enjoy TPM and AotC. They don't have the exact same feel as ANH, ESB or RotJ, I realize that. What would be the point of doing prequels if he's just going to repeat everything that came before? People would complain that nothing new happens. Yawn

    GL writes today the same way he did in the 70s:

    Act 1 TPM and ANH- intro to characters and plot. As it ends, the action begins

    Act 2 AotC and ESB- begin story right away. Put heroes in the worst situation they can get in. Villians win this one.

    Act 3 Episode 3 and RotJ- Resolution, rescue heroes from bad situation. Episode 3 won't be a resolution the same way RotJ was; 3 more movies happen after it.

    TPM and AotC do NOT contradict or twist any of the other movies. GL still has one more movie left in which to clear up 'plotholes.'

    In 3 years, you will take back all your harsh words and realize that TPM and AotC are just good as ANH, ESB and RotJ
  19. Texapocalypse

    Texapocalypse Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jul 11, 2001
    You know what kind of SW fans hate this movie?

    The kind that have deluded themselves into thinking they have some involvement in the film production process.

    The kind that think they own the movie and its universe. When they go into the theater, they are unwilling to "give control" to Lucas. If it doesn't match their narrow preconceptions of what the Star Wars universe should be, they're not satisfied.

    Someone with this kind of mentality won't be pleased by anything Lucas could possibly do.

    And if they saw the original A New Hope when they were kids, I have a hard time believing they used the same movie criticisms that they use now. They saw it with the eyes of kids -- ready to suspend disbelief, ready to have a wonderful time.
  20. hootie2

    hootie2 Jedi Youngling

    May 17, 2002
    Wrong again. I am so tired of the seeing the movie as kids line. The original Star Wars was enjoyed by people off all ages. It trancended age and genre lines.
    Let me use another George Lucas product as an example.
    Indiana Jones.
    First movie was an all time great.
    Second movie was a good movie but poorly written.
    Indiana Jones and the last crusade was the third installment and was excellent because they simply repeated all the good things about the first movie within a new context.
    (poor grammar i know)

    Anyways in the Star Wars prequel's they have to make a good movie AND tell the story that leads up to the original movies.
    This is proving to be a difficult combination. I really just wish George had somehow talked Steven Spielberg into dierecting these movies. George is best left doing all the technical work, thats where he shines.
  21. Crack_6K

    Crack_6K Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 18, 2002
    Just for the people who decide to support your "plotholes" ;)

    Why didn't Vader lift Luke out of the Cloud City pitfall using the Force? He's the strongest Jedi, he could do that.

    >> He wants Luke to follow his "destiny", to join the dark side on his own as Anakin himself did. He diesn't want to force Luke to join.

    Tarkin said that Vader is "all that's left of their religion." What about Obi-Wan and Yoda? Sounds like a plothole to me.

    >> Obi-Wan and Yoda are JEDI. Darth Vader is a SITH.

  22. Razorback

    Razorback Jedi Youngling star 5

    Oct 2, 2001
    The genius crew here needs to figure out what "plot hole" means... because it does not seem that they know. :D

  23. AG_LT_Redman

    AG_LT_Redman Jedi Youngling

    May 19, 2002
    I think it is pathetic that they say the movie is bad. They are definiitly no SW fans ata ll if the say this. PLOT HOLE what the hell why dont u try to make the movie and see what you come up with i think there doin a damn good job of maken the movies so far. POTM wasent great anakins bull**** blowing up the star ship. And when jar jar got that droid stuck on his foot yes those were all bad part in the movie. But you still dont go talking **** about in my opion the best out of all 5 movies so far. I really think you to should stop bashing the movie. I think you should re think ur pathetic lifes. Whos with me on that?
  24. Bring_on_Aurra_Sing

    Bring_on_Aurra_Sing Jedi Youngling

    May 8, 2002
    you nailed it tex!
    "If I were making Epsiode II..."
    reply:"Too bad someone is *actually* making it instead of just *posting* about it. Oh yeah, is it the same guy who invented it? Oh YEAH! Okay, jedi business, go back to your drinks."
    This movie had so much depth--small scenes that indicate huge plot changes; absolutely dazzling detailing of scenes and backgrounds and characters. (trust me, I could go on).
  25. Jaden

    Jaden Jedi Youngling star 2

    Jun 22, 2001
    Let me try and answer some of these so called plot holes. However, before I do, I want to say that nothing that has been brought up thus far actually can be classified as a plot hole. It's all guessing. Let me show you what I mean:

    Darth Sidious is surprised at Amidala's turn-around before the final battle in 'Episode I'. That's an example of a plot hole in that film.

    You're guilty of making an assumption right off the bat. That Sidious was even surprised. They guy is a master manipulator, this is agreed upon. Therefore, it seems obvious that he is not always sincere, right?


    The leaders of the TF are cowards, that much is bluntly stated. Sidious, being in a bargin with them for some time knows this better then anyone. Therefore, he is aware that he can't make them nervous. If they are nervous, they'll freak out and run. Sidious obviously doesn't want that. Therefore, he needs to give the impression that the Queen has no idea what she is doing. He tells the TF that she is young and naive, and that controlling her will be simple. This is exactly what the TF needs to hear to keep their confidence high, and their support complete.

    When she returns to Naboo, Sidious notes that it is an odd move for her, too aggressive. By nature, when someone is doing something against their nature, they are at a disadvantage. Sidious says this keep the TF confident that she doesn't have any idea what she is doing.

    Ultimately, Sidious is keeping the TF's confidence levels high throughout the invasion. He tells them what they want to hear, keeping the truth to himself.

    This is but one of numerous possibilities that explain Sidious' reaction to Amidala's supposed "turn around".

    Well, really, I consider the prequels to be two large plot holes in themselves, as they so annoyingly twist and turn the Classic Trilogy around.

    I'm sure you'll agree statements like this would classify as "filler". They serve no purpose.

    In 'Episode II', one plot hole is how the Tusken Raiders keep Shmi alive.

    I don't have all the comments, but they stress how foolish it is that Anakin didn't go and free his mother eariler. This has already been answered, namely that he has been preoccupied with his Jedi training. More over, his dreams reach a breaking point in AOTC, where he feels he has no other choice. As well, it must be taken into account that he is finally away from Obi-Wan, giving him the freedom he needs to do something like that.

    As for the Tusken Raiders keeping Shmi alive, again, this is no plot hole, much like all those above. As already mentioned, if Lucas has to explain every detail in his movies, they would each be double the length, very obvious and incredibly boring.

    The novelization itself says that the Tuskens are torturing her in response to the attacks they have suffered by humans. If you don't want to buy that, there are hundreds of other possibilities.

    I don't understand why you must assume that they kept her for no apparent reason. What is the logic behind that?
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