AOTC is a phantom movie: Why some people don't like it.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Storm5, May 19, 2002.

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  1. JediHPDrummer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2002
    star 3
    How is it so har to follow AOTC. IT's freaking easy to follow, if you dont know how to follow it your a big dumbass and probably don't know how to follow a book. If you have read books and especially hjarder ones then star wars. I'm damn sure AOTC is not hard to follow. Serioisly, what is so hard about it? First you guys complain about how the plot in TPM is to empty , now you think AOTC is full and complicated. Get a life and go enjoy the movie. You nit pickers, i swear. I bet you if ESB came out right now, they will be complaining about something. What is so bad about this movie, seriously I think the acting in this movie and dialouge surpasses any other SW film. and i love the part when anakin and padme are in the fireplace, the words from anakin sound like its from shakespeare. People will always bash star wars, theres no denying it. At least 90% loves it!
  2. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    LOL, my impressions of the original films back in the day was that they had state of the art special effects, aliens and environments. The actors have always come second, in fact I vaguely remember people saying that the acting sucked; seems only after a long period of time that these people now talk about the acting in the old films like its shakespearean standard.
  3. Sapno Krei Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 1999
    star 3
    Before some of us get too far off our rockers, I want to bring something about human nature to light...

    Negative criticism of anything that we appreciate immediately brings up a defensive reaction. Why is this? After all, none of us had any hand in creating this object of our affection (in this case AOTC). So why the fists in the air?

    When someone bashes something which we enjoy, it's as if they're saying "Only an idiot could like this film!" True, the argument could be rebutted ("Only an idiot could *not* like this film!"), but it's usually not as powerful.

    A positive opinion is always harder to validate than a negative one. But if you really, truly enjoyed AOTC, or any other movie for that matter, you shouldn't feel the need to validate that opinion anyway. No one can convince you that you really didn't like a movie. And if they can, then what is your opinion worth anyway?

    I say this after having argued my stance on the film endlessly. I, too, am only human...
  4. vmaras1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2000
    The division of opinion on this film has been exciting, if not entirely heartening. So far, the critics appear to be evenly split down the middle on their opinions of the film.

    From here, the public will decide...
  5. Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 1999
    star 3
    "...sure there are those out there that were disappointed or hated this film, but ya know what? It must suck to be you, because I saw STAR WARS: ATTACK OF THE CLONES and I can?t wait to see it again."

    ya man , comes right out of my heart

    im a SW-fan since '77
    and i must say this is the best movie since '83

    and those with there plotholes : some holes always looking for holes ;)

    if ur a bit smart u ll see all the pieces come together

    AOTC ROX !
  6. lono Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 1
    "The movie was put together bad, I am glad I also have it on my computer so I can fast forward to the good parts. In the theatre i was wishing I had a remote to fast forward it to the end."


    Translation: "I have a short attention span and just wanna see stuff blowing up. Stuff blowing up is cool. huh huh."


  7. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    "Before some of us get too far off our rockers, I want to bring something about human nature to light...

    Negative criticism of anything that we appreciate immediately brings up a defensive reaction. Why is this? After all, none of us had any hand in creating this object of our affection (in this case AOTC). So why the fists in the air?

    When someone bashes something which we enjoy, it's as if they're saying "Only an idiot could like this film!" True, the argument could be rebutted ("Only an idiot could *not* like this film!"), but it's usually not as powerful.

    A positive opinion is always harder to validate than a negative one. But if you really, truly enjoyed AOTC, or any other movie for that matter, you shouldn't feel the need to validate that opinion anyway. No one can convince you that you really didn't like a movie. And if they can, then what is your opinion worth anyway?

    I say this after having argued my stance on the film endlessly. I, too, am only human... "

    Good statement. If only the other gushers were so level-headed, we would be able to argue the movie objectively, instead of having to put up with them trying to quantify all of the negative criticisms and excuse the "flaws" of the film.

    When actual reasons are given in a review, the only way to refute them is to argue the logic behind them. Because so many fans can only come up with "I liked this part of the movie," while the ones that disliked it are for the most part, coming up with concrete reasons why, they're forced to rely on personal attacks and such to defend the movie.

    It's reverse-trolling, actually. However, there are some reasonable people here, and more in less biased places.
  8. Charlemagne Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 1999
    star 4
    Far be it me to call George a subtle film maker but I think it's fairly obvious that the Tusken raiders were probably keeping her for revenge.

    If they're human I think the males were probably raping her as well.

    Lucas doesn't have to state that's what they were doing but I think it's pretty obvious that she was probably being done so.

    As for Amidala buying Shmi's freedom it's entirely possible that she turned it down.
    She couldn't be with Anakin even if she wanted to be and moving to some other world isn't going to help her much
  9. Razorback Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 5
    Anakins mother would be a plot hole if it didn't make sense.

    The Jedi order does not want their learners around "attachments" and so giving freedom to Anakins mother would have worked against his learning.

    Naboo could have freed his mother I guess. But then we don't know if they tried. It is only a hole if it doesn't have ANY explanation possible.

    RB
  10. Smooth_as_Lando Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    Saying "hi" after 3 years in exile!

    I was one of the most vocal critics of TPM back then under the name "Use the Horse" (stupid name, much stupider arguments. God I can't believe how much hot air went around, both from me and my "enemies").

    But I swore to myself that if the next movie was good, I would come in and say so. And man, let me tell you, it rocked! I still think the writing is weak, story kinda loses out to effects, but hell, I felt like a kid again. Watching Jango and Boba Fett, seeing the (future) stormtroopers.. Yoda kicking ass (and Anakin, for that matter!)

    Hayden Christenson is better than people are saying. Natalie is better. Ewan was great. I am so relieved and looking forward to seeing it again. Leave TPM out of it, it DOES NOT make it a better movie in hindsight. But man, I am excited to "come back into the fold," so to speak!

    Looking forward to Episode 3.

    Anyone seen a guy who used to go by the name "Go Mer Tonic" or something like that? Man, he and I had some long, epic debates..
  11. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    Go mer tonic is still about, mate.

    Umm..

    The OT 'focused on simple human emotions and themes'.

    No it didn't. I love the OT as much as anyone, but Star Wars has never, ever been 'focused on simple emotions.'

    The story is king.

    Characters and relationships are always kept simple.

    Same in AotC as ESB or any other Star Wars films.


  12. lono Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 1
    "If only the other gushers were so level-headed, we would be able to argue the movie objectively,"


    But SW movies ellict emotional responses in people. There's a reason it starts with "a long time ago in a..." Lucas knew what he was doing. It's a signal to shut off most of the critical facilities much like you do when listening to a fairy tale.

    Fairy tales are not meant to be argued objectively. Little red riding hood cannot be argued objectively. Alice in Wonderland makes no sense at all. Homer had tons of plot holes. Heck, so does the bible. SW movies are about capturing the imagination and the emotions, not soley about rational discussions.

    Lono
  13. Charlemagne Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 1999
    star 4
    I once fell in love with a girl over a week and wanted to marry her. The circumsances involved were brutal to the extreme to her and she was about to go over.

    These things happen and in retrospect while you were both headed for disaster sympathy and personal feeling can shatter one's rationality
  14. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    There are no plot holes but those you make for yourself. Remember, your focus determines your reality :)
    I suspect more will be revealed about Shmi's kidnapping in Episode III, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious was behind it.
  15. eguang Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 1
    Ree yees, Christ...

    You two might as well give up watching the SW saga right now because episode III will follow the same path as episode II and you two guys will not like it either.

    Me?, I loved AOTC so I am OK with the path GL is using and based on what I saw in AOTC I know I will love EIII.


  16. --SithLord-- Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2002
    I have seen AOTC 3 times now, and it is my second favorite, next to ESB. Now, some are talking about how it is hard to follow the plot. What are you talking about? The plot is genius! The only way it is hard to follow the plot is if you get caught up in the eye candy throughout the movie. Other than that, I don't see how it is hard to follow. This movie will put Star Wars back on the forefront of moviemaking. I was in awe the first time I saw it!
  17. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    Wow, reading through this thread, I find myself relating to both sides of the argument.

    Okay, let me start right off the bat by saying that I thoroughly enjoyed "Attack of the Clones". Ewan McGregor was positively *flawless* as Obi Wan Kenobi, Yoda kicked ass, and there were enough mind blowing scenes to make this a memorable SW movie.

    That said, I can appreciate many of the criticisms that people are throwing around. Some of the dialogue *was* excrutiating, the love story fell flat, and I still don't feel I know Padme at all. And I also won't accuse you of not being 'real' star wars fans because you didn't enjoy the movie. Trust me, I hated "Phantom Menace", and I know what it's like to be dragged across to coals for admitting that. I also know, that even though I was thoroughly dissatisfied with TPM, it didn't make me any less of a Star Wars fan than anyone else.

    And, well, to be honest, part of me is wondering if I was able to enjoy AOTC more than TPM, because my expectations were lowered. I wasn't expecting much after being so disapointed the last time out. And a three year wait doesn't build up as high expectations as a 16 year one. So, I openly admit that perhaps I'm grading Episode II on a curve.

    But I *did* like the movie. Very much. But when it comes to the original trilogy, it still doesn't come close. Maybe part of that's nostalgia or 'the han solo factor', I dunno. Having grown up with these movies for 25 years, I openly admit it's hard to be objective about them anymore.

  18. --SithLord-- Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2002
    Now that I have read all the messages in this thread, I just can't believe that some of you think this is not a good movie. Someone even stated that most SW fans didn't like it. All of the fans that I know that grew up with the OT liked this movie alot, including me. So called "plot holes" like C3PO not being recognized by Owen in ANH are RIDICULOUS. It looks like some people are merely LOOKING for things to bash Lucas for. MY GOD!!!! Did you people analyze the OT movies when you were kids too?? Oh, I'm sorry. I guess those are "perfect". Some just can't get over their grudge against Lucas for TPM. This movie has great action, CGI, character depth, and storyline. It is a great Star Wars movie!! You all have a right to your opinion if you hate AOTC, but your reasons are beyond me!
  19. deak_n_windy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    Outside observation: To those of you who adore this film, why are you WASTING so much time in this and other similar threads that discuss the film's shortcomings? Shouldn't you be celebrating the wonder that is AOTC in the appropriate threads? I can't believe how defensive some of you are. If you're THAT confident in your opinion of the film, let others voice their own opinions and be done with it.
  20. Azzgunther Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 3
    if people didn't defend the film, threads like this wouldn't exist because it would be pretty boring pretty quickly to just diss the film with other naysayers. c'mon...you like it that we're here to say what we like.
  21. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    They dont like it because they are ignorant or dont understand the stories. I feel sorry for them. I like Star Wars and it's their loss that they don't.

    You know, it's lame arguments like this that create so much pain and conflict in the world ;)

    Look at all your posts in this thread, trying to defend a ramschackle of a movie. OK, so I was a little generous on the plothole side, but why can't you people just admit that 'ATTACK OF THE CLONES' is a bad movie? That doesn't mean you can't love it. I love a lot of bad stuff.
  22. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    I don't think its a bad movie at all. It has a few problems, IMO, but none of them detract a bit from my enjoyment of the movie.
  23. Darth_Skellington Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    star 1
    when did amidala say she was going back to "claim what was hers"? dont recall that moment...she just said she was going home
  24. Kal0527 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    I agree with you Rees, and you abmccray. I for one did not care for AOTC either, but, apparently if you have a conflicting opinion you are a basher. And of course, god forbid, you spell something wrong......well you get the picture.
    There seems to be a lot of hatred towards people who don't maintain the status quo and pay hommage to Uncle Georgie-poo. Whether this means you have a negative opinion or maybe a simple question about the EU pertaining to AOTC.
    An example:
    Darth_OlsenTwins had simple question pertaining to the Spaarti cylinders of the EU in conjunction with the cloning processes in AOTC. His thread was locked. I posted a rebuttal to this locking on another thread. It reads as follows:

    "y'know, on a more serious note, a lot of people around here are making me sick. Darth_OlsenTwins topic just got locked. Why is it everytime a topic raises a valid question, but, the admins don't like it, it gets shut down? All anyone was asking was what about the Spaarti cloning cylinders from the EU. Now, while I realize there is an EU posting board, AOTC obviously deals with CLONES, so the post is relevant. I am very sick of people who say that one poster is being immature for starting a debate when all i ever see is, "EU suxors" or, to quote from the above mentioned post from the extremely mature and, might I add, eloquent Saurion-Fett, "jaster mareel stole them and flew away on a dreadnaught with a yasamari up his ass."
    It seems everyone on this posting board is encouraged to give their opinion, but, if that contradicts the opinion of an admin or frequent poster, that opinion is not worthy of a lengthy debate.
    anyway......just an observation.
    Wouldn't wanna get banned. "

    It does no good to argue your point here. With a few exceptions, most of the responses will mirror Saurion-Fett.

    Just remember you are not the only ones.....


    Stay blue in Yoda.

  25. ECM_Boba_Fett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 3
    Well said,

    To respond to someones post about me not being a fan because I found it boring in parts.

    You dont know me, so dont make statements you cant back up.

    Now to AOTC it was a good movie but not great. It did have slow parts and bad dialogue. You can love the movie and still find fault and other things wrong with it. I see so many people that say the ESB is their favorite but then I see them in another thread posting how they didnt like this in ESB.

    Some people feel they can say they love a movie and that their opinion is the only one that matters and everyones elses doesnt. Just because you love the movie just can it a fact just as someone that hates it isnt fact either. So stop the bashing and realize an opinion good or bad is just an opinion and one opinion isnt regarded higher then the others.

    Also to love the movie and find no fault with it is bind faith. Which I dont have I see things for what they are and not what i am told to believe.

    My last poiint to someone else that said I am a kid something like that. I still had the same mind set when i was a kid the only difference now compared to then is the fact that the excitement isnt the same. But as far as what to expect and wish to see doesnt change.



    So to the lovers of AOTC stop bashing us we arent doing it to you until you start on us. Just because their may be more of you doesnt make you right as its only your opinions. Just as ours are only opinions too. Its what we believe and bashing each other isnt going to change a thing.

    Also I find that most of the time when people bash others opinions by bashing the person themselves they usually have nothing to bash their opinion and resort to the next best thing and thats the person who wrote the post. Calling them things like non-SW fans, idiots, etc.

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