AOTC is a phantom movie: Why some people don't like it.

Abmcray, I read your review in the review thread, and while I honestly respect your opinion, I don't really agree with it.

I, for one, really liked ATOC, and felt it had way more depth than TPM. The pacing may have been fast, but I used to seeing that in movies today. I didn't really have a problem with it. I also really didn't have a problem with the love story being rushed. And I did think that the acting in the movie was pretty good. If it seemed wooden it may have had to do with the characters.

Look, I'm a second generation SW fan, I wasn't even born when Empire was released and was only 1 year old when Jedi was out in theatres. Maybe I didn't have a problem with the movie because I wasn't as emotionly attached as the ppl who saw it in a theatre back in 1977. I didn't have a problem with some of the flaws you found in the movie. If you did, thats fine, but please don't think any less of me. Maybe we just have different tastes, after all, you had no prob with the Ewoks(which are almost uni hated in the SW fanbase).

Look I'm not saying that ATOC didn't have any flaws, because it did. And its not going to win any awards anytime soon. But I enjoyed myself and had a great time, and I tought the acting was pretty good. So I hope we can agree to disagree.

 

I have no problems agreeing to disagree. A couple of things, though:

I don't maind the pacing being fast - but I DO mind scenes being cut extremely short in order to make room for dumb (IMO) conveyor belt scenes. Lucas cares more about "cool sequences" than the characters - if the movie even matched the original script (which gave Padme more motivation, etc.), I wouldn't be complaining so much!

I don't mind the Ewoks. The Ewoks are lambasted because it's "cool" to lambast anything that is cute just like it is "cool" for young/teenage guys to bash something like Titanic's love story. The Ewoks fit right along with the theme and pacing of RotJ/Star Wars, and do not detract from the story. As long as things make sense along with the rest of the movie, I have no problem with them.

Anyway, I have no problem disagreeing with you on OPINION. I do have a problem with these obsessed gushers trying their best to invalidate someone else's opinion, with an opinion grounded in even less fact than the ones they're trying to dismiss!

 

ECM_Boba: "The movie was put together bad"?

I think the movie was put together much better than your sentences like the one above.

 

First off I wanna say I've been a Star Wars fan for many many years. I love all the movies, yes even "TPM". That being said I don't think that these prequals are perfect. "TMP" doesn't really connect to the Star Wars saga exept for the fact that it has alot of the same characters. Attack of the clones is the movie that really gets things moving. The one thing I rally don't agree with is the inclusion of R2 and 3PO. If lucas felt he really had to have them seen here, he could have thought of a better way. I think it's hard to believe that Anakin doesn't remember the droid in the original series, I mean christ he built him. Same goes for uncle owen. And unless Qui-gons' role is some how reprised in the third film then I don't think he should have been created at all. but that's just my opinion

 

I have not met anyone out in the real world who doesn't like Attack of the Clones.

Believe it or not, I can mention Star Wars to people and rather than say 'Yeah but TPM was awful' they go on about how much they liked AotC.

And these aren't 'fans' like us, they're just your common or garden film goer.

We should celebrate that Star Wars is cool again!!!!

 

Ok time to wake up all those AOTC bashers & haters......first of all Lucas's own words the target audience all the star wars films were between 10 & 14.....not adults-remember how old you were when the original came out???between 10 & 14 am i right???cos i was & youll find so were the majority of fans, thats why we love these films so much-they are a part of our childhood-we grew up with these films & they are a huge part of our culture just as much as school or christmas.Secondly these films are family films & are soley made to entertain in a way that no other films entertain-they are spectacles made to thrill-they are not shakespere like some bashers seem to think & like they seem to be reviewed as no....when the original came out it broke all kinds of new ground not to mention no end of records because there had never been anything like it before,a rola coaster of a ride with mind blowing special effects,romance & humour together with a magical feeling of wonder-but part of that feeling was to do with us being prepubesant & that we had never seen anything like this before....& all the star wars films have been the same, theyve all broke new ground & records & all targeted the same audience & now all of a sudden they are being reviewed like its shakespere or gone with the wind or citizen kane or something-its stupid it really is.....these films are to simply entertain & you are meant to forget yourself watching them & be a kid again & just ejoy the ride they take you on thats all. its star wars entertainment like saturday mattenae serial thats all it aint shakespere-WAKE UP GUYS.& stop looking for stupid things like plot holes in something that is nothing more that a fun film aimed soley & kids always have been & always will be-just give ya self a break & let ya hair down...go on try it...be a kid again-ya just might like it.

 

To: taeseesiin
Dumbass that was my point of writing it that way

Since you flamed me here is the flame back, If thats the only thing you can say about my post and not use things from the movie to make valid points. I guess I win as I dont have to flame people when they dont agree with me but use facts and not abuse members who I dont share an opinion with.

To: EVERYONE

I have not flamed anyone personally about anything like grammer and stuff, only their opinion and even then I am not rude like some of you.
So why doesnt everyone stop being jerks and respond to peoples opinons and not their grammer. Were not in English class and dont need people to keep bringing up the fact they did this wrong
We are here to exchange ideas not grammer lessons, IF all you can come back at someones idea is with a grammer remark dont bother because flaming is wrong and also it means you dont have a thought and want to be a dick and insult.

We all make grammer mistakes, I have not read a post which didnt so everyone focus on the subtance of the post not the text. We are here to talk to fellow SW fans not English teachers.

 

"These films are for kids". Anyone remember when George started in with this line?

His initial "concern" for making Star Wars and telling the story was that he was worried that the two current generations (Babyboomer and Generation-X) didn't have any mythologies of their own; the subtextual "moral compass" that every other generation had before them.

"These films are for kids". If this was the case, the investment bankers never would have allowed George to go massively over-budget on ESB because at the time, kids were not a bankable market. Granted, George felt that Irving was doing "too good a job for the type of film we're supposed to be making". Why then did George let Irving continue on his path, making what many consider to be the best sequel of all time?

"These films are for kids". George didn't even start saying this untill the backlash of the Ewok movies started to bring some heat down on him.

Now, in say this, I do think that AotC is an okay movie. It's got some great moments of action, some dramatic tension. But why, after 5 films, has George not "got it right"? Why is ESB still considered the best of the entire series, even after all this time? This is the point of sequels/prequels. Each successive one is better than the last (or should be... although this rarely happens). George has the resources to make truely outstanding pictures that have the ability to cater to a childs sense of wonder and fun, and an adults need for dramatic exposition. He's got an amazing universe, so why does he not use it all, pull out all the stops. Allow for better directors, better writers to help him realize an ultimate vision. I can sort of understand why he doesn't. A taint of vision and all that. But, with all his resources, there is no excuse for any mediocrity at all, none what so ever.

This is all my opinion of course.

 

Having seen the movie, what strikes me is that AOTC is merely "less mediocre" than TPM. Unlike some around here, I don't think it is lightyears better.

I find myself agreeing with alot of the critics who panned it. Great, flashy special effects pieces do not make a great movie. For instance, the effects of AOTC are mostly superior to those in the LOTR, but to me, LOTR was a much more satisfying movie going experience.

Some on this board try to explain the media's lukewarm reponse to AOTC by saying that the media just doesn't like the sci-fi/fantasy genre. Then why did LOTR rate an astounding 96% rating on Rotten Tomatoes while the last time I checked AOTC was languishing at around 58%.

What saddens me is that while AOTC might be "great fun" to many, Star Wars could be so much more.

 

AOTC contains such a giant, gaping plothole that I have a hard time understanding how Lucas couldn't have cought it during the writing process. It's really rather simple:

Jango is the template for the clones, who are to be used as an army for the Republic. Obi-Wan knows this, and follows Jango to Geonosis, where he hangs out with Dooku who is in league with the Trade Federation, who are ALSO CREATING A DROID ARMY FOR THE SEPERATIST MOVEMENT.

Obi-Wan should know the whole damn plan when he sees Jango hanging out in the VIP box with Dooku and Nute Gunray. There is no way to explain away this descrepancy.

 

Just because Lucas hasn't bettered ESB yet doesn't mean that the saga is a failure. Each film is supposed to be part of the six episode arc, not just try and top the last one. Many expected TPM to be the ultimate Star Wars movie, because of the 16 year wait, but that wasn't Lucas's intention. He couldn't wow audiences the same way they were wowed in 1977. That's no longer possible. He's just giving us the history of the characters and events leading up to ANH.

Having said that, AOTC was significantly better than TPM and ROTJ, and I expect Episode III to be the best one yet, even if it doesn't replace ANH and ESB in the old school fans' affections. I'm pretty sure twenty years from now the kids who grew up watching the prequels will feel just as much magic and grandeur in Episodes I - III as the older fans feel for the original trilogy.

 

Ok that is your opinion....but let me just say a few more things....firstly if they were meant for kids then why were the characters packaged & marketed as toys before the original film came out i might add???this was before anyone knew about star wars & this was way before the days when everything started to get marketed & packaged as toys.....how do you explain that??how do you explain the holiday special???& do you mean to tell me that you dont consider Episode5 TESB to be accessable to kids???yoda was a muppet controled by frank oz & as for the orginal remember the scene where leia hugs chewie when they shoot out the tie fighters???that was a kids snene through & through & so was the snene at the end when they all get medals & r2d2 starts bleeping & they all laugh.....these are kids scenes......& i cannot believe for one second that you can say these scenes are aimed at anyone other than kids or ""FAMILYS"" You seem to be living in denial & i think youre refusing to grow up......i on the other hand am a bit more mature & take them for what they are episodes 1 2 & 6 are no more kidie like than episodes 4 & 5......they all have that very kid like view to things about them. its fact im afraid- i love the films-all of them but thats because i take them for what they are.....not kids films but""FAMILY FILMS""if you want an adult orientated sci fi film go see a STAR TREK film.

 

I actually don't think SW movies were really made for kids. I mean the Ot had some intense violence (luke's aunt and uncle being burned, many amputations, Han blasting Greedo at point blank range..etc.). Kids could certainly enjoy and love the movies, but there was more than enough content to get the adults to come with or without kids. I think SW was made for everyone. In the world.

NEARYEPHIPANY is right. I don't think this is a bash. The bottom line is that before the movie is even over, the Jedi should have solved the msytery in AOTC. It is blatantly obvious that the Clone War is a phony war engineered by the Sith with aid from the Senate. I stated the reasons on the previous page and I agree with thr reason stated above. Just because I point this out does not mean I am a basher, it does not even mean I did not like the movie. GONK gave a very well-thought out response which I think I answered. But I wonder what others think about this?

 

There are loads of scenes in each of the films that are very kidie like!!How can you tell.....because when you reach a certain age these scenes become very embarrassing almost & unadult & you dont notice this when youre a child cos its the normal....youre used to watching stuff like that having been watching cartoons & ****....so you cann not say that these films are aimed at the adult audience in the same way star trek is or alien or any other adult sci fi....its like back to the future....they were aimed at teenagers-they are teen movies, that doesnt mean we dont enjoy them it just means there target audience was teens....but they are family films like star wars but star wars main target audience was 10 - 14 yr olds & in my opinion even ruling out episodes 1 2 & 6....its obvious that that is the main target audience....but they are family entertainment films-they are not adult sci fi films(two different things)they all have embarrassing moments & scenes of cringe in to us adults-all of them even Empire & the original.

 

I was about 5 years old when I saw Star Wars: A New Hope for the first time. It is one of my very first memories. All I remember is a flash of desert and a tiefighter. Sometimes those memories overlap and I see the tiefighter in the desert. I have of course seen the movie many, many time since then (possibly hundreds of times). As a child I played with my action figures in the yard during the summer. I used to use dry cut grass to build little walls of bases. My parents weren't well off and the only space ship they were ever able to buy me was the B-wing fighter. I have read many (though by no means all) of the Star Wars books. My favorite character might be Grand Admiral Thrawn, who was a lowly Vice Admiral in the hit PC game Tie-fighter.

My point?

I would consider myself a fan. And thats an understatement. I stood in line (and was #1 thank you) for the Phantom Menace after camping out all night. I did this to both buy the tickets and see the movie (1st both times). I did likewise for AOTC.

Yes, I was disappointed a little with some things in TPM. Jar Jar was a bit too childish for my "adult tastes". And the acter chosen for Anykin was hands down the worst child acter I've ever seen. They should've gone with McCully Culken or that "I see dead people" kid (j/k). However, the movie was good. It was something that made me feel like a kid again. The whole point I think of the Star Wars movies. Memories of a better more innocent time in my life. I had a blast despite the "plot holes" and bad acting that was also present in the original trilogy.

Now....enter AOTC. I walked out of that theater and the only thing I could think was "I can die now." I don't even care about movie 3. I really can die. Don't get me wrong. I can't wait for 3 now, but 2 more than made up for the shortcomings of 1. It was all that "and a bag of chips".

You guys need to realize that the people that are knocking the movie are 1 of 2 types of people:

1. They are not "true" fans. They are simply people that like to talk smack on the internet and upset people that really do care. (Most likely - Ever see a little flick called Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back?)

2. They are fans, but really-gosh-diddel-darn didn't like the movie. For what reason I have no idea, but everyone is entitled to their opinions. (Less likely)

Plot holes? Pfft....my hole life is one big plot hole.

Bad acting? Pfft....I didn't care about bad acting when I was 8 and saw Empire Strikes Back. Why should I care now? Besides, it wasn't THAT bad. ("Luke, I am your father...NO THAT'S NOT TRUE! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!")

Anyway. I read a review that said AOTC didn't have the "emotional power" that Lord of the Rings did. WHAT? HUH? EXCUSE ME? Is this the planet earth? Oh yeah. I forgot. It is. And it's full of morons who somehow get paid to give movie reviews. Critics are like A-holes. Yup. Everyone's got one. And the only thing that comes out of'em is...you guessed it - ****!

I went as a group of 15 people to see the movie (my game production company-www.plutoniumgames.com) Sorry for the plug. Every body on my team was awe struck.

George Lucas...if you are out there! You da man! Thank you for making me feel like a kid again! In this world of bills, debt, mean people, and illness it's nice to take a trip back to my days in the front yard playing with my Star Wars action figures.

 

plut0nium.....my thoughts exactly.....at least someone out there knows how to appreciate & enjoy star wars entertainment....couldnt of said it better myself.....well i tried to-but this was my overall point.....go on you only live once.....forget yaself & enter that galaxy far far away again.....let ya hair down & be a kid once more....thats what star wars is all about & how to appreciate it....if you can do that-then go see it again & when you come out,post a review on it & i garauntee it'll be a good one.

 

PLUTONIUM-- Again, if you love AOTC, that's great. But how can you try classifying people who didn't after you said yourself that you did not like TPM??!??! Everything you say about people who do not like AOTC applies to yourself. Don't you see that? You talk about your childhood and how great SW was for it. Then you say Jar jar was "too childish" and the kid stunk? Doesn't that make you a non-fan or someone who just doesn't like darn details? Come on now.

Instead of telling people why they did not like something, just enjoy the movie and discuss what people have to say. As long as it's civil, it's all good.

And isn't McCauley Caulkin like 25 now?

 

Hmm...

The dark side clouds all things. Methinks you did't really get the point of my post. I never said I didn't like TPM. I said a few things were disappointing to me, but the movie was good. And yes, I am a "grown up now" and some things did admitedly turn me off about TPM, but the kid in me still loved it as a whole. Also, my words about the 2 types of people that didn't like the movie are true. A. Not fan. Just talking smack. B. Fan that didn't like it. I don't know how much more simple I can be. I promise you though. There are more fans that liked it than didn't. YOu didn't like it? Ok. As I said. You aren entitled to your opinion. I'm not refering to you in my rant. I'm refering to the people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about (movie critics) or just picking at a few tiny mold spots on the crust in an attempt to say the whole loaf of bread is no good. People that waste food piss me off!

Civil? I believe I was nothing but civil (with exception to my comment about movie critics. Really. They are the spawn of Satan and should be banished to the spice mines of Kessel. Who could ever possibly compare Star Wars to LOTR or Spiderman. Pfft. That makes me laugh).

Imagine for a minute that there were no other Star Wars movies ever. Now imagine this new movie called Attack of the Clones comes out (and please suspend disbelief that it is a movie that needs a movie before it to explain it). Now...Tell me, what other Science Fiction movie out there can compare to it? Hmm? Any takers? There are of course the Star Trek movies. But I don't even want to open that can of worms (I'm a fan of both franchises by the way). Seriously? I can't think of one other Sci-Fi movie that comes close to the (what I like to call) "coolness" factor of AOTC.

Jedi lightsaber battle enmass (spelling?)
AWESOME CGI & Special Effects
Cool locations (Corruscant is the ultimate sci-fi world)
Yoda lightsaber fight!!!!
Kick ass characters and fight scenes (Jango Fett anyone?) Loved that part where he shot his missle at Kenobi. Bout time we got to see what that backpack could do!
Seeing Boba Fett as a kid and knowing part of what made him so bad ass.
Cool space battle. Man those explosive charges made the coolest sounds when they went off! And the way Jango Fett's Slave I was shooting rapid fire! That was sweet.
Getting to see how Anykin slowly begins going to the dark side! Priceless! "I killed them. I killed them all! And not just the men! The women! AND THE CHILDREN!"
HELL YEAH! GO DV!
Even some realy honest to god funny scenes!

pfft...I'm not going to bother going on.

You didn't like the movie? It's all good.

All the people that liked AOTC in the house say HEY-OH!

 

about the "plot hole" as to why the tusken's kept shmi alive. in ANH the tusken raiders jump up and scare luke and knock him out. they drag him closer to his speeder. leave him there start looking through his speeder for crap they can take. and then are scared away.

THEY DID NOT KILL LUKE.

what were they gonna do to him? probably drag him back to their camp, tie him to a pole and torture him for a few months. if they were just gonna kill him they would have done it first thing.

i guess that's it.

 

<<Imagine for a minute that there were no other Star Wars movies ever. Now imagine this new movie called Attack of the Clones comes out (and please suspend disbelief that it is a movie that needs a movie before it to explain it). Now...Tell me, what other Science Fiction movie out there can compare to it? Hmm? Any takers? There are of course the Star Trek movies. But I don't even want to open that can of worms (I'm a fan of both franchises by the way). Seriously? I can't think of one other Sci-Fi movie that comes close to the (what I like to call) "coolness" factor of AOTC.>>

First of all, Star Wars is FANTASY, not sci-fi. Surprising that so many fans don't know that obvious detail. Fantasy set in space.

And as has been stated before, the critics think that LotR is a better fantasy movie than AOTC. I agree for some of the same reasons as them and for other reasons as well. Does that mean that you have to agree? No. However, you have to realize something:

They gave solid reasons for their opinions. You may not agree with some of them, but they did. And their reasons are certainly more grounded than your " THEY DIDNT FEEL LIKE I DID SO THEYRE STUPID D00D!!!! >" ramblings.

 

I guess what is most frusterating as a film-maker is the fact that George has at his disposal unlimited potential to tap into. From his own financial backing to owning the FX house. George had never really displayed the ego that is so prevalent in these PT films. Even he is the first to admit that he hates (perhaps too strong a word)... dislikes directing. He doesn't really like actors that much ("if I could tell a story without actors, I would"), and feels that Star Wars as a franchise is just that... a franchise. Now, obviously, I'm hoping for a little more than that and I feel that ESB delivered that. ANH had us going in the right direction, ESB blew us away as far as both story and film-craft went, and RotJ was paced extremely well with very few redundant scenes.

Now we come to the PT films. TPM was a solidly well paced movie but unfortunately was telling a not so compelling story (simple does not mean stupid). It had it's moments but ultimately fell flat for more than just a few of the "faithful". And then we've got AotC. Now, I'm not saying that it isn't a worthy addition to the SW "franchise". If RotJ is a worthy addition, this more than ranks convincingly well in amongst the series. AotC has, amongst all the other films, the most potential going for it. It's got great characters played by some excellent actors, it's got "state-of-the-art" FX and a new digital production to showcase them in, it's got an outstanding origin-story and a rather compelling history surrounding that central character driven arc.

So why does it seem to just "miss the mark" for me? A complex question to say the least. When insipid little pieces of dialogue (ala Corday's one and only line at the beginning) make it to final print, I cannot help but immediately start to "second guess" George's true motive concerning these films. Obviously he wants to make money. But this was never his initial intent for the "Star Wars franchise". He wanted this/these movies to fill the mythological void that the recent generations lacked. Mythologies have always been about guidence and structure which one can base present-day experience upon and draw upon both resources to discover the most appropriate action.

Sure I can enjoy these movies as nothing more than mindless fun. In that they succeed (I still think that having a different editor would benefit the movies structure... hell, George should be lead editor and pass the directing job off to someone else). But when it appears that George has strayed so far from his initial intention, it saddens me to think about what could have been. he has the ability to incorporate ALL aspects within these films. He's done it before in ESB, why stray from that?

 

You're kidding right?

You want to get into an argument over Fantasy or Sci-fi?

I won't justify that. It is WAY beyond my point. Feel free to argue though. I'll just read. I've said enough.

Oh...I will say however that most critics are paid by the movies they speak highly of. Not to insult, but it is naive to think otherwise. It's all marketing.

Ever watch previews on TV? Siskel and Eibert give it two thumbs up! Its the feel good movie of the year. A sure bet for an oscar! The best action film this summer! yeah...you keep believing that.

 

Green-Destiny.....Ill tell you my whole point shall i.....Its one thing to have an opinion & everyones entitled to have one but the problem here is that everyone is reviewing AOTC as if its shakespere or citizen kain or sumat like i said & not like star wars should be reviewed as......star wars is all round family entertainment & fun.....nothing more & nothing less....thats what it always has been & always will be....thats what the original was in 1977 & thats what AOTC is....so instead of reading too much into it & trying to find hidden meanings like its some kinda religion-its just a movie nothing more nothing less(lucas's words)....just relax sit back & enjoy yourself when you watch it....in the same way you did when you were 10 years old or whater age you were when you first saw ANH then come out and review it.....youll see things much clearer.....try wiping the fog away from your eyes & try watching it through the eyes your 10 year old self again & youll see a completely different movie.The problem i find thats come up since EP1 TPM was released is all the original fans whom grew up with the originals were in mid to late 20's when star wars came back into their lives & some of them expected star wars to have matured to the same degree they had....they wanted star wars to grow with them & it didnt which dissapointed them-thats why EP6 ROTJ had so many haters & enemys....you have to learn to watch star wars in the way it was meant to be watched through the eyes of your younger self....just as if you were going on a rollercoaster ride-its exastly the same thing.....you have to let go of your conscious self & feel the force around you....learn to watch it as a kid again.....infact try having some kinds & going with them.

 

Unfortunately (this really hurts to say this) AOTC did not work for me. I was so SOLD on that it would be a much better film than TPM.

I just hope that I can keep my mouth shut and not degrade Lucas as low as I have in the past. I need to remember that George Lucas has done so much for me in my life. I certainly would hope that he wouldn't ever have time to read my negative comments from the past.

Kenneth Turan of the Los Angeles Times writes "We'll never see another Star Wars, no matter how much we want to."

 

No you wont see another star wars again no matter how much you try NO....You wanna know why???cos you wont let yourself & your eyes wont let you....you see things differently now & not the same as you did when you saw the originals....youve grown up.....you aint a kid any more like you were when you were thrilled to bits seeing the originals.....you'll only see what you want to see.....you have to unlearn what you have learned & see things with fresh eyes.....through the eyes of youth & inoscience.....as yoda said to luke skywalker when he levitated the x-wing out of the swamp & said"he didnt believe it"-""THAT IS WHY YOU FAIL""