AOTC is boring compared to what?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Duckman, Jun 24, 2002.

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  1. Darth_Minge2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 1
    "I still think Citizen Kane is the best film ever made, but hardly much fun to watch."


    How can you say that. If you don't enjoy watching it then you can't possible think its the best film ever. Films are entertainment. If you don't enjoy them, then how can you truly believe that Citizen Kane is the best film ever made. Its just following other peoples words. You totally contradict yourself by saying that. You say you don't enjoy watching it, then you can't like the film that much and therefore you can't think its the best film ever.
  2. endboss Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 1998
    star 3
    AOTC is more enjoyable than Citizen Kane in the same way chocolate ice cream for supper is superior to steak and potatoes in the mind of a 5-year-old. Your tastes will mature one day, kiddies, and then you'll laugh at the things you used to say and believe.
  3. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    How can you say that. If you don't enjoy watching it then you can't possible think its the best film ever. Films are entertainment. If you don't enjoy them, then how can you truly believe that Citizen Kane is the best film ever made. Its just following other peoples words. You totally contradict yourself by saying that. You say you don't enjoy watching it, then you can't like the film that much and therefore you can't think its the best film ever.

    What I meant was it's not my favorite movie ever but from a filmmaking standpoint it is clearly at the top. The shots, the editing, the symbolism are all superb. The breakfast sequence is brilliant. The story is very good as well. But on a personal level, it doesn't touch me the way Star Wars has.
  4. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    AOTC is more enjoyable than Citizen Kane in the same way chocolate ice cream for supper is superior to steak and potatoes in the mind of a 5-year-old. Your tastes will mature one day, kiddies, and then you'll laugh at the things you used to say and believe.

    That was an unnecessary flaming endboss.
  5. Obi_Wan_Kerobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2002
    I know Citizen Kane is a good film. I've seen it in the cinema (no I'm not that old). But how can you proclaim a film to be "the best ever" when you clearly don't like it. I believe the Star Wars films to be the best. I was there when they first came out and I'm still here today. You really have to enjoy something to believe in it, which you clearly do with Star Wars. Citizen Kane is just an over rated film, esspecially if you are proclaiming it to be the best ever made. Thats a pretty strong stance to take.
  6. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I "like" Citizen Kane but I don't adore it the way I do with Star Wars. In everything, I have two ranking systems, "personal" and "objective." From a completely objective view, Citizen Kane is the best film ever made (and I have watched lots of great films, mind you). From a personal standpoint, Star Wars is easily the best film.
  7. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    Is it simply your opinion that "Citizen Kane" is the best movie ever made [from an objective point of view]? Or do you expect us to accept this as fact?
  8. Obi_Wan_Kerobi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Good point, FOXBAT, it only your opinion, just remember that. In my opinion, Star Wars is the best film ever made, and soon it will be over 12 hours long :)
  9. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Is it simply your opinion that "Citizen Kane" is the best movie ever made [from an objective point of view]? Or do you expect us to accept this as fact?

    It is my objective opinion that Citizen Kane is the best film ever made.

    It is my personal opinion that Star Wars is the best film ever made. Note that I enjoy AOTC better than ANH but since it came first I give it props.
  10. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    I think I love AOTC because it is a starwars movie, because it entertains me, and because I've loved starwars eversince childhood.

    But if I was to judge it by the same standards as other movies, well, I wouldn't rate it very high.

    I love it. But I know many movies have better directing, acting, script, plot and even sfx.

    So I can say that I find AOTC touching, but still realize that there are many, much better movies.

    I "love" starwars movies more than most other movies, but there many movies which I find much better than any starwars movie.
    There are many movies that I consider to be masterpieces. No starwars is one of them. But there are few movies for which I care as much as starwars.

    I think that starwars enhusiasts (including me) should try to understand why they love starwars, why they still spend time and money on that kid-oriented movie series when they are 30 years old.
    Or, more precisely, why so many 25-35 years old are still fans of the heroes of their childhood, and sometimes even obsessed with them (starwars is not the only phenomenon of that kind).

    Saying we love it because it is good, or just better than anything else is no good answer. I think it is much more complicated than that.

    And saying that if we love it, it is good is not true either.

    The fact that it pleases us is one thing. But the interesting thing is to know what exactly some people find in starwars that pleases them so much, even though they know it isn't the finest movie series ever.

    I think that endboss' comparison with icecream (a few posts above) is spot on.
    And I don't think it should be taken as flaming.


  11. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    endboss, my old foe :)
    I actually agree with you that, while AOTC is the more enjoyable film, Citizen Kane is the bigger landmark when it comes to cinema. But I have the controversial view that a film should entertain first, and everything after that is secondary. When I say entertain, I don't mean that every film should be a popcorn crowdpleaser, but it should at least hold your interest. The worst thing a film can be is boring. Taxi Driver isn't boring. Schindler's List isn't boring. The Godfather I and II aren't boring. So a film can be artistic and still satisfy the requirements of a being an engrossing movie experience. Citizen Kane is boring, IMO, but that has nothing to do with its artistic quality.
    I have to agree with duckman about the classic trilogy as well. Some prequel detractors seem to think that if the originals were released today (the same versions, not remakes), everyone would love them, but that's not the case. I know many people who don't enjoy the original films at all. I even heard one critic say that TPM was a relief after the boring mysticism of ESB :)
    But since what makes a film boring is impossible to define objectively, there's no real answer to this question. I mean, 2001 is one of my favourite films, but I can see why a lot of people think it's boring. The pace is slow, the characters are pretty flat (apart from HAL) and there's hardly any humour. I appreciate the vision of the film, but many people can't. That doesn't make them wrong. They just look for different things in a movie.
  12. Darth_Fisto Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2002
    star 4
    If 2001 is one of your favourite films, what is your take on the ending, cos I got no idea and I'm not ashamed to say it. That film was slow, boring and little more than an expensive music video for the opera crowd.
  13. Padmes_Love_Slave Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 1
    The Matrix 2 trailer whoo!
  14. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    LOL, nice sig Padme's...
  15. gonzoforce Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2002
    star 5
    I didn't find it boring, but then again, I didn't really find it that exciting either.

    I'm not sure why, I also didn't find the love story boring either, I actually liked it.

    Edit: Even though I liked AOTC, I don't think I would rank it in my top five. Here's my top 5, and as you can see, I just don't like one particular Genre of movies:

    1) North By Northwest
    2) Citizen Kane
    3) ANH
    4) Raiders Of The Lost Ark
    5) Goodfellas
  16. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Now there's a nice tactic. Comparing SW to what is considered the greatest movie made :p
    That's like going to a hym and calling all the guy's wimps because they're not as huge as like Arnold (in his prime) :p
    There should be standards obviously, but setting the best as the best as the standard is kinda dumb? Cause then Kane isn't all that great either, it'd be only average at best :p
  17. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    I can see that endboss still likes to insult others for having their own opinions. Since you throw a word around like "immature", maybe you might want to open up a dictionary to find out what it means. You might even see a picture of yourself next to it. As far as Citizen Kane goes, I think that ANH was more of a cinema landmark than it was. 25 years after,it still holds up,and it's still an influence in film making. Citizen Kane's shelf life wasn't very long. The movie industry changed for the better,and left it in the dust. Citizen Kane does make my top 10 list. Top 10 over-rated movies. AOTC is a far more enjoyable experience IMO.
  18. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    First off, how did Duckman accidently type out Citizen Kang? The "E" and "G" keys aren't even that close to each other. [face_laugh] Also, why did you start this thread Duckman when you answered your own question in the very first post? You wonder why people think AOTC was boring and yet you say you perfectly understand why others would think other films would be conceived as dull. Are some of us SW fans that myopic these days? [face_mischief]

    Also, you people should show more respect to Citizen Kang. The film shares something in common with the story of Anakin. A young boy, by fate, is whisked away from normal childhood and "grows up too fast" and lives the rest of their life in regret and other dark, unsatisfying paths. One is redeemed, somewhat. Another drops a snowglobe and makes a mess on the floor. :(

    Also, it's my opinion that Citizen KanE is NOT over-rated. It deserves whatever accolades it receives. Wait a few years, or watch more films from that era, and you'll appreciate it more, hopefully. (Or watch it with the Ebert DVD commentary -- a wonderful and educating track).

    Bow to Kang. [face_devil]



  19. Darth_SMITTIUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 1
    Good point, Darth Homer.
    Films should be entertaining as well as artistic. Star Wars, IMO, is both, just in a different sense. SW is supposed to be a sci-fi fantasy with an extra dose of cheese thrown in. It is supposed to be a slap in the face of our serious society that such a silly sci-fi serial show can be an epic myth and have deeper roots. Its just meant to be fun, and that is art in itself!

    Endboss, I really wish you would quit writing posts that call me and my fellow posters kiddies just because we happen to like good entertainment. If you have had your sense of fun removed, you should go consult your doctor. If you didn't like something, just say so. There is no need to call me childish just because I enjoy child-oriented entertainment. I feel sorry for you and your kind, the people who feel it isn't "cool" for an adult to partake of no holds barred fun.
  20. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    This thread proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that gushers are just as obnoxious as bashers.

    STAR WARS a better movie than CITIZEN KANE? I'll grant most of you are probably 15 years old and, hopefully, when you grow up and experience the world a bit more, your intellectual and aesthetic horizons will expand. Hopefully...
  21. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    I'm 33 years old, so let's drop the "factual" assumptions. I don't need to justify my likes and dislikes to you,and I never asked anyone to justify their opinions and tastes. When someone questons the intellectual level of someone who likes to form his own opinions, then I seriously question their intellectual level. It takes a real brain dead individual to think the whole world should think like they do or they're wrong,immature,intellectually stunted,etc.... I'm glad I'm not like that. A pity you are. Maybe one day you'll get a clue.
  22. vulcanjedi99 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2002
    First Off; I was memerized by AOTC; favorites scenes were all with Obi-Wan for sure...

    On Kirsten Dunst; she is beyond beyond hot hottie hot hot

  23. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    Darth Solo,

    I said "most of you". Before you flame on someone, make sure you read what they say closely.

    "As far as Citizen Kane goes, I think that ANH was more of a cinema landmark than it was. 25 years after,it still holds up,and it's still an influence in film making. Citizen Kane's shelf life wasn't very long. The movie industry changed for the better,and left it in the dust."

    ANH was certainly a landmark in special and sound effects. It also ennobled a generation.

    But did it mark a new era in music scoring, methods which we are still using today? Film scores are separated into two ears, before Bernard Hermann's CITIZEN KANE score and after.

    Did ANH mark the innovation of deep focus cinematography? Yes, Welles was influenced by the German Expressionist cinema of Murnau, but he blended it together in a business that was used to cutting and staging with respect to the proscenium arch.

    Did ANH mark the perfection of overlapping dialogue, which was picked up on by Howard Hawks and Robert Altman?

    Did ANH fracture story structure in a manner that's still being felt today (MEMENTO, anyone? RASHOMON?)

    Seeing as CITIZEN KANE is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, movie of all time, how can you say it had a "short shelf life"? Did you miss all the excitement that attended its recent DVD release?

    The movie industry changed for the better? You mean when ANH ushered in the great era of the mindless summer blockbuster, of an entire generation of directors without vision and ambition? What is "better" now post-ANH that wasn't better after CITIZEN KANE. If I recall my film history, after CITIZEN KANE, film noir was born as a genre, using many of its techniques. Samuel Fuller grew into one of the great guerilla directors. And the New York method actors used CITIZEN KANE as an inspiration for its own independent style of realistic filmmaking and acting.

    "I don't need to justify my likes and dislikes to you,and I never asked anyone to justify their opinions and tastes"

    If you're here to just make wild statements without backing them up, then what's the point?

    "It takes a real brain dead individual to think the whole world should think like they do or they're wrong,immature,intellectually stunted,etc.... I'm glad I'm not like that. A pity you are. Maybe one day you'll get a clue"

    Not half as brain dead as someone who dismisses one of the most pioneering films of all time as having a short shelf life. A great movie isn't a pound of ground beef. A great movie causes ripple effects through the entire scope of film history. CITIZEN KANE certainly qualifies as this, for the reasons I've stated above. ANH also. But history has borne out that few movies have revolutionized filmmaking like KANE, with the possible exception of BIRTH OF A NATION and 2001. But maybe I just hold movies in higher regard than you and appreciate them for what they are: art forms.

    BTW, I loved ANH. It had a huge influence on me. But I don't see the point of denigrating one great movie to uphold another. That's how idiotic "vs" wars get started and we begin to discuss movies like they're sports teams, not what they truly are: expressions of an artist's heart and soul.

    It's a pity Darth Solo can't see that.



  24. Darth_ApHEx Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2002
  25. kampilan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Black Hawk Down.

    I've seen it 4x on-screen and now own the DVD. Only saw AOTC twice and Spidey 3x.

    Army Rangers are the Clone Troopers(Mandalore) and the legendary Delta boys are the Jedi!

    Sometimes you just can't top real-life stories...
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