AoTC IS the greatest Star Wars film ever. (so far)

Or you could fall into my category. Let me act it out for you:

*walks into theater and watches TPM*
Me: "That was INCREDIBLE!!!!!"
Lots of other people: "That stunk!"
Me: ?????? "Oh well..."

*walks into theater and watches AOTC*
Me: "That wasn't nearly as good as the other films. Boy, after what people said about TPM, I can't even fathom what they'll say about this."
Lots of other people: "That was WAY better!!!!"
Me: ?????? "Oh well..."

Not all of us did a double take. I've thought it was the weakest since I saw it. But it's still an enjoyable action film.

 

Quite opposite here

Me too. The first thing i said to my friend right next to me after seeing Attack of the Clones was literally (only not so literally cause i said it in Dutch) "At least it's better than Return of the Jedi", to which he said "No it's not".

Now, after 3 years, it's my favorite Episode to date (he thinks it's better than ANH and RotJ now). And i doubt/wonder if even Episode III will surpass it. It has so many subtleties (in looks, sounds, actions etc etc) that i keep picking up on everytime i see it again. And the more i hear from Episode III (even though i don't want to hear it ), the more i'm starting to figure out how brilliant Episode II really is in the large scheme of the saga.

It's, technically, not the best Episode. Editingwise it can really turn into a mess sometimes. But overall it's one of my favorite movies ever, and my favorite Episode in this saga.

- O_F

 

It is my LEAST FAVORITE episode, and I am utterly surprised to find it so HIGH on many of your lists. I can understand it though, as it got into the story much more than TPM just barely scratched the surface of the beginnings. AOTC setup the exposition much better, and is a great stepping stone to ROTS, but I will love it more once ROTS, and everyone realizes that TPM and AOTC were BUILDING UP to ROTS, which makes the OT have a greater emotional impact (after one views the entire saga, in order, the last 15 minutes of ROTJ will be the most intense of any film ever).

 

Dude, he said 'so far'. That means ROTS isn't included, since it hasn't been released yet.

 

ESB>ANH>>TMP>>>>>>>>>>>AOTC>ROTJ

 

Please give me the counter-argument!

Why dose Strilo or for that matter any one that felt HC did a very good job and the Love Story was good have to counter? If you don't agree with it fine. If Strilo liked it then he is free to and dose not need to counter why he likes it.

 

AOTC is a very very close secod to ESB in my book. Sometimes, I think they are tied.

 

Personally, its hard for me to fathom how it's even considered a GOOD film period. Forget Star Wars Film, but film altogether. I only needed to see it once to realize it was just an utterly terrible movie. Never again will I see that horrible horrible movie.

I don't expect any of you to share my views. I just have a hard time imagining that people actually like it.

 

^ I highly recommend seeing it more than once. Give it a chance to grow on you. It?s alot more subtle than the other SW films. I know when I first saw it I was disappointed but after a few viewings AOTC is now my favourite SW movie.

 

^^^But when a film has to grow on you it means you dont actually like it, you just subconsiouslly hear others like it and begin to like it.

As a stand alone film, I would say its a 2 out of 10, as a piece of the Star Wars Saga its a 4 out of 10. It seems like a thrown together piece of ****, in my book and if Lucas changes the movies in the future for the Super Dupper Mega Ultimate Special Jedi Edition, I could see him changing (scene and story wise) AOTC the most.

 

^ subconsciously hear others like it? Why does it have to be subconsciously or consciously for that matter?

When AOTC first came out I heard and read people saying they liked it and I would hear and read people bashing the crap out of it non stop (mostly the latter). Personally I had to see the movie the next day again to follow the storyline and action sequences. It was just information overload for me the first time I saw it. Once I digested what was going on I enjoyed the movie. It?s like hearing a song for the first time. You kinda like it the first time you hear it but the more you hear it the more you can?t stop singing it. That?s how it was for me with AOTC.

Believe it or not some people form their own opinions and don?t bash or gush over a movie just because everyone else does. It has nothing to do with subconsciously or consciously hearing opinions of others. It?s a shame that people don?t have confidence in their own opinions anymore.

 

Personally, its hard for me to fathom how it's even considered a GOOD film period. Forget Star Wars Film, but film altogether. I only needed to see it once to realize it was just an utterly terrible movie. Never again will I see that horrible horrible movie.

Good for you. I'm glad that you were able to move on. Certain aspects of a film's artistic merit are encumbered in relative perspective, not absolute truths. If you have such pronounced difficulty comprehending why another individual would possibly enjoy the film, then that is your prerogative, of course, but one which I shall regard with caution.

As a stand alone film, I would say its a 2 out of 10, as a piece of the Star Wars Saga its a 4 out of 10. It seems like a thrown together piece of ****, in my book and if Lucas changes the movies in the future for the Super Dupper Mega Ultimate Special Jedi Edition, I could see him changing (scene and story wise) AOTC the most.

That's rather negative. Why is it a thrown together piece of ****? Care to extrapolate and expound upon such a sensational notion? I find it interesting that people are able to make such grandiose claims without substantiating their opinions; I have no problem with your perspective, per se, but to throw out arbitrary bits of criticism without being specific in your attack screams of evasiveness.

Believe it or not some people form their own opinions and don?t bash or gush over a movie just because everyone else does. It has nothing to do with subconsciously or consciously hearing opinions of others. It?s a shame that people don?t have confidence in their own opinions anymore.

Well stated, Spare_Parts. I fail to understand why an individual's opinion, in this particular instance the enjoyment of a film, needs to be qualified with psychoanalytical jargon; I am immensely tired of using this example, but since it pertains to the matter at hand, here goes - as Jean Renoir did not quite say, "Everyone has their reasons." One does not have to agree with that reasoning, but it is the right of the individual to possess it. I really don't see why a person's like or dislike of a movie such as "Attack of the Clones" has to be intellectually scrutinized, as though someone who enjoys it "must be a mindless drone under the influence of Lucasfilm Ltd." That's sort of the implication here, one which I have repeatedly encountered and find rather offensive. You don't have to agree, which is fine, but to question another's affinity for a particular entity such as the one in question is unreasonable. The manner in which some people regard the prequels seems to imply that Lucas has made two films that are morally repugnant works in the vein of Skip Woods' abhorrent "Thursday." Really, the movies are admittedly flawed, but I don't consider them to be intrinsically offensive, as some would have you believe.

 

Yes AOTC is good, but ROTS is even better!!!!

 

I'll say it again, but I think you can't compare the OT and the PT. They're too different. I like them all! AOTC is cool though. I would say it's better than TPM but not as good as ROTJ. That's my favorite.

 

And I think ROTJ is the worst SW film ever with FAR more problems than the PT combined. Guess it all boils down to opinion, eh?


OK, I can let the other stuff slide, because that stuff is well-done. But these two...c'mon, you're gonna have to break it down for us.

Christiansen's "brilliance" is completely hampered by the awful scripting (no one -- NO ONE -- could have done well with those fireplace scene lines) and direction. A key example of the latter is this line: "Don't worry. (long, unnatural pause.) I've given up trying to argue with you."

Aaagh, I hate, hate, HATE that. That scene needed a retake at the least.

And then there's the love story. The front-loaded kiss by the lake came far too early in the process, robbing the story of the normal dramatic curve of rising action -- it's supposed to build UP to that point. And I'm sorry, but I really didn't see anything that would cause the level-headed Padme to fall truly, deeply in love with this angry young man.

Please give me the counter-argument!

There is no counter argument. I LIKE the way he delivers that line. It has comedic timing that way. I thought Hayden WAS brilliant. I like his subtle nervousness in the elevator scene and his teenage petulance. I really love the rant about Obi-Wan followed by the "it's not fair!!" line. I surely sounded like that when I was a teenager. I think his performance in the Tusken tent is outstanding. I frequently tear up a bit at this scene. Of course the confession scene is just insanely good. He is so all over the map as he should be. Frightened kid, lashing out in fear and anger, chilling evil showing through followed by grief. I also think the scene in the gunship with Obi-Wan after Padmé falls out is stellar. The chemistry between the two actors really shines in that scene. THAT is but a few examples of things that make Hayden brilliant to me.

 

All my cousins were over today and we ruled out AOTC would be perfect if it wasn't for Hayden, he was just so bad!

 

Right now, my personal scale goes something like this:

ESB
AOTC
ANH
ROTJ
TPM

I really, really want to like TPM, but some parts are just so incredibly bad that I'm embarrassed for the film.

But I do love AOTC, and I have from day one. IMO, there are no flaws in this Episode that aren't in any of the others.

I've also never seen a problem with Hayden. In fact, I think he's great. A lot of people like to complain about the lines, which is another matter altogether, and out of his hands.

Oh, and also, two words: Confession. Scene.

"And then there's the love story. The front-loaded kiss by the lake came far too early in the process, robbing the story of the normal dramatic curve of rising action -- it's supposed to build UP to that point. And I'm sorry, but I really didn't see anything that would cause the level-headed Padme to fall truly, deeply in love with this angry young man."

You know, I may sound like a PT apologist (which I'm not), but here's how I look at the love story:

Anakin has NEVER had a crush, ever. He went into the hands of the Jedi at what, 8? He's a teenage boy having his first crush. Think about that.

I'm willing to bet that every male reading this has said things 10x cornier than the sand line.

And as for Padme's 11th hour love confession:

She's sort of in the same place as Anakin, but we know she's been in relationships before. Now she has this young, handsome Jedi guardian whom she knows is interested in her. However, she's very mature and knows that it would never work between a Senator and a Jedi.

BUT, BUT, BUT, if she wasn't a Senator, and he wasn't a Jedi, would she be so steadfast? No. It's no stretch of the imagination to see the two together, and it's obvious from the fireplace scene that she IS interested in him.

So we spend much of AOTC with Anakin chasing Padme, and Padme constantly brushing him off. Until Geonosis.

In this scene, the focus is Padme. There's no change in Anakin, we've seen him fawn over her the entire movie. So why the sudden change in Padme?

Let's recap:

1.) She IS interested in Anakin
2.) The only reason she wouldn't enter a relationship with him is because of their careers
3.) They're both about to be executed

Between 1 and 2, and the complete emotional factor of 3, Padme professing her love to Anakin is completely believable.

 

AotC? AOTC? HOW can you like such a movie? You should all be ashamed of yourselves. :starts wagging finger:

You will all hate AOTC NOW!

Some old posts from somewhere else that I pulled out:

"Episode 2? Is this some sorta joke? Seriously episode 2 is nothing compaired to Empire Strikes back, for one thing in episode 2 we have to deal with an even whinnier, more obnoctious Annikan (sp?), C3PO and R2D2 were given nothing but comedic roles, and Jar Jar was still alive and breathing!

Seriously, that movie sucked! Now lets move on to episode 5: First off we see the apperance of some of the most popular and most kick arse characters that Mcfox mentioned, the good guys get there arses kicked, and we learn that the baddest villian of all time is Luke's father. Episode 5 is Luccas' best work so far, but unfortunetly he hasn't managed to make anything that good since then (not counting episode 6 or 4 though)."

"A New Hope: 10/10
Empire Strikes Back: 10/10
Return of the Jedi: 9/10
Attack of the Clones: 7/10
Phantom Menace: 6/10"

"In Episode 2, Obi-Wan goes to find the clones, and Anakin protects princess what's-her-face (who really cares?). Then Christopher Lee and those flying dudes start the war. BORING."

"The only thing I like in Episode 1 was the lightsaber duel between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Maul. Besides that, I don't even think 1 and 2 are worth watching.

1 and 2 focused way too much on action and less on a believable plot and good acting. They think if they throw in a bunch of action scenes everyone will like it. Anyone who knows Star Wars (or good acting in general) will see that 1 and 2 suck."

"Personally, I don't like Episodes 1 & 2... It seems to me that the main focus has shifted from plot quality to action and special effects, and I believe that a good plot and decent characters are all a movie needs (the only exception I found to that is Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl).

Here's what I don't understand: the technology in Episodes 1 & 2 is incredibly superior to 4, 5, & 6. In my opinion, Lucas should have thought a little harder about this before deciding to cram as many special effect and weapons in 1 & 2 as possible. Just bad planning..."

"Seriously. Episode one above four? I mean, I enjoy the prequels in the same way that I enjoy fan fiction. They aren't anything more than add-ons that, while occaisonally enjoyable, don't come near the quality of the originals. You're HALLUCINATING."

Just some old posts I dug up from another forum.

 

*projectile vomits at the premise of this thread*

basically, neither episode i nor episode ii can hold a candle to the OT. maybe it's just because i grew up on the originals and this new trilogy came around as i was embarking into adulthood, but TPM and ATOC are at the bottom of the ladder for me. hopefully ROTS can stack up with the OT. most preliminary reviews say it does. great news!




p.s. - padme discussing paolo or whatever the hell is name is from the junior legislators club was one of the most pathetic scenes of all the movies. truly terrible. love story blew balls. what can i say. i love star wars and i try to always give it a fair shake, but i can only take so much

 

Dont get it. TPM and AOTC look amazing and are fun to watch.

Oh......... Now I get it I have a life.

 

I have no problems with the believability of their situation.

What makes the love story so unbelievable IS the dialogue. And I'm sorry, obviously some can get past it; I can't. This is the part of all six movies where emotion is running, quite possibly, the strongest. Unrequited love is essentially universal. We've all gone through it at some point. These characters should be ridiculously easy to identify with, but their words are cold and it's painfully obvious to those watching the movie that this is scripted. It sounds completely and utterly unnatural. We can't identify with a love that isn't real...and unfortunately, the movie fails to convey that true emotions exist between these two. The connection on which this film is built around, the connection that is to be this film's greatest contributuion to the Star Wars narrative, fails, in my opion, and at a very fundamental level.

 

And I think ROTJ is the worst SW film ever with FAR more problems than the PT combined. Guess it all boils down to opinion, eh?

Indeed. But for some unfortunate macro-choices in ROTJ (the Ewok-heavy middle act nearly breaks the film), I think it holds up better than either of the PT films thus far, which are riddled with mostly minor irritants that add up.

There is no counter argument.

But I feel the counter argument in you. The conflict!

I LIKE the way he delivers that line. It has comedic timing that way.

It's delivered so flatly and solemnly that any comedic feeling in the line is lost. It didn't register that it was actually supposed to be funny.

There are other lines of his that, while well-played, really needed to be cut out. "I'm sorry, I don't have a choice" or "I miss you so much" are the glaring examples; both seriously undercut the impact of their respective preceding line to the point of almost ruining the scene. Again, editing and scripting were the culprits here, not Christiansen.

I thought Hayden WAS brilliant.

I think he is a fine actor, based on 1) what I've heard of his non-SW performances and 2) how well he played this petulant teenager. Anakin is not a very likable guy at this stage.

Of course the confession scene is just insanely good. He is so all over the map as he should be. Frightened kid, lashing out in fear and anger, chilling evil showing through followed by grief.

My problems with this scene have much more to do with Lucas telling us what happened at the camp rather than showing us -- a severe no-no in storytelling in general and filmmaking in particular. Imagine our knowledge of the fate of Alderran without the actual shots of the planet's destruction: just Tarkin's order, Ben's reaction and Solo's confirmation. That's what Ani's confession was like; even though we'd seen him kill three Tuskens, we really needed a followup shot where we SEE that he's destroyed the entire colony. Something a simple as the camp in smoldering ruins (a thematic precursor to the burning homestead in ANH, maybe) would be enough and still PG-rated.

Otherwise, you're right in that Christiansen's performance, overall, is spot-on. Not sure if I think it's BRILLIANT, but most of my gripes are all direction- and script-based.


And to the person who took me to task for requesting a counter argument in the first place: an opinion that one can back up with actual reasons always holds more weight. The object of communication is to understand other people and to be understood. Stirlo has acquitted himself (herself?) well, in my eyes, even if we don't fully agree. But that's OK!

 

I have to agree that AOTC is up there in my favorites of the saga. ESB is still #1 for me, but AOTC is a close second. The only part of AOTC that somewhat bothers me is the love scenes, but they only take up about 20 minutes of the whole 2 1/2 hour movie (and when I saw it in the theaters, it didn't even bother me at all). I too remember the first and second times I saw AOTC in theaters; both times people applauded after the movie was over. I don't understand some of the complaints about the movie, like the whole "Hayden was too whiney," thing. Does anybody remember the, "I was supposed to go Toshi Station to pick up power converters" line from ANH? Bad acting and bad dialogue are just part of every SW movie (with maybe the exception of ESB). People today still don't realize that critics originally trashed ESB when it first came out (and recently, somebody put up a link to an archived rottentomatoes.com of ESB's original reviews when it came out for the first time, which proves that very point - critics hated it). The point is, IMO, AOTC was great.

 

The general consessus is

Empire > New Hope > Jedi > Clones > Phantom Menace.

I can see some of ROTJ's problems, but I don't see how one can put it below the first two prequels. It had the Ewoks, which I don't mind, as well as some tedious spots. But, the movie's weakness are made up for the epic Battle of Endor- the best battle scene of all-time, IMHO.

 

Personally, I'm convinced that everyone who hates AOTC is a brainwashed. Yes.

I went back yesterday to watch AOTC again. I actually sat down and said "Okay- hate this movie. Find the bad stuff. Etch the bad dialogue into your head. SEE IT!".

Needless to say, after the movie ended, I concluded that people who dislike the movie must be under some sort of mind-control device.

I waited for bad line delivery. I can honestly say that there are maybe three lines delivered poorly, and usually by Sam Jackson. BUT, they aren't poor in the sense of "bad" just "could've been inflected differently". The may even have been delivered well, if I knew what Sam was going for.

The 3po lines "I'm beside myself", I could have done without. I think there may have been 3 of them- comprising about 10 words total. But, there was no delivery problem. That was dialogue. Let's see "this party is over" I didn't think felt quite right coming from a Jedi master. That is about 15 words total in dialogue.

"My heart is beating". Well, that's a natural function, and always a good sign. Would've been better with "pounding" or something a little more intense than "beating".

So, I saw about three lines which could have been delivered a little better; and about 15 words of dialogue I could've done without. Not much at all.

The romance scenes. Now, the only thing I noticed was that they needed a little more transition into the 'fireplace' scene. One second we're out at the waterfalls- next thing you know, we're in a serious conversation by a fireplace. Needed a better transition.

That's all I could find- and I deliberately tried to see the bad. Nothing worth anything, really.

I hear "wooden acting"; but, sorry, anyone who says that is either deaf, or brainwashed. Fact. The actors did a very good job. Not only in the lines themselves, but in body language.

The love story is one about two people very much in love. One of them (Padme) is doing he best to fight her feelings. Anakin can't understand why she is acting the way she is toward him. And it's understandable. I felt sorry for the guy- genuinely sorry. Here he is trying to win her over, and he keeps getting the cold shoulder. And he shows it well in his body language. So does Padme. Hayden and Natalie did a good job.

Ewan is just superb as Obi-Wan. How anyone could fault his acting in the film is beyond comprehension.

>>>>>

Christiansen's "brilliance" is completely hampered by the awful scripting (no one -- NO ONE -- could have done well with those fireplace scene lines) and direction.

Dialogue can't inherently be bad unless we have "Gee, I sure do like you Padme, I just think you're cool" "Oh no, Anakin- we mustn't talk in a manner such, it ain't just a'right". Now THAT would be bad. But the things they say- they say! It's that simple. There is nothing inherently wrong with saying "When I think of being without you- I can't breath". Nothing. Now, you can say "I hate romantic talk"- but that doesn't mean the dialogue has some form of inherant "wrongness" to it.

A key example of the latter is this line: "Don't worry. (long, unnatural pause.) I've given up trying to argue with you." Aaagh, I hate, hate, HATE that. That scene needed a retake at the least.

There is no such a thing as "long, unnatural pause" in talking. If I pause when I'm saying something- then I pause when I'm saying something. There is no way that line is "unnatural". How do you even measure "unnatural" in communication like that? There is no English rule of grammar, or even some form of 'instinctual' communication law, that says pauses are unnatural. It's just being made up! Brainwashed- I'm telling you.

And then there's the love story. The front-loaded kiss by the lake came far too early in the process, robbing the story of the normal dramatic curve of rising action

There is no such a thing as "normal dramatic curve". You kiss- you kiss. Period. It did a good job of conveying that Padme was having to fight off her emotions. She said with her eyes "I love you", but p