Hawaii AOTC reviews

Discussion in 'Pacific Regional Discussion' started by Ewaeagle, May 16, 2002.

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  1. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    Though Jango Fett was a bad ass, I knew he wouldn't be a match for a Master Jedi. Jango is only strong with his gear, without it he would be as vulnerable as a baby, and he was. Jango's death was quick and easy because he is not skilled enough to counter the moves made by an experienced Jedi. Look how slow he was to react to Mace Windu. He practically stood still as Mace decapitated him. If he had ANY skill at all, he would have at the least ducked, or moved out of the way.

    I just watched AOTC again, and will probably watch it a few more times before summer school starts on Mon.
  2. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    Kmunee & ikeshawngrl...

    Well, Jango really got roughed up by the Reek. If the Reek used him as a rolling pin, did you notice that Jango's jetpack was short-circuiting? That's why Jango couldn't effectively attack Mace like how he roughed up Obi-Wan. You saw him backpedaling as fast as he could but it wasn't enough.

    It's funny because both Jango and Boba die because of a defective jetpack. [face_laugh]

    Anyway, Mace wasn't playing fair. He waited till Jango got rid of the Reek first and then attacked full force.

    Jango got "shafted." ;)
  3. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    Good point JJIB, however I still think, if he was totally stripped of all his gear, he wouldn't be a match for Mace. I mean, he has his laser gun, jet pack, flame thrower, and everything else. A Jedi, basically has his light saber, and the ability to utilize the force.

    Oh, here's another issue I wanted to discuss. It's hard for me to believe that Anakin is going to eventually become Darth Vader. We've seen glimpses of the dark side emerging, but I think something very extreme needs to happen for him to completely change. He loves Padme very much, and that alone makes his transformation from good to evil difficult to believe. With the intensity of his feelings for Padme, I still don't believe he would forsake his love for her just to be seduced by the dark side. I mean, this boy has basically loved her since he was 9 or 10 years old. Something very extreme needs to happen.

    Either
    1) He's made to believe via his conversation with the Emperor that Padme was killed by the Jedi.
    2) He beleives his mother could have been saved, but he was prevented from saving her because of the rules regarding Jedi training, therefore he deviates from the good side.
    3) He does not pass the trials, or is not allowed to try, due to Obi wan's insistence that he is not ready.
    4) A combination of everything
    5) Umm..hmm....other forces.

    Anyone else have any ideas? What would make Anakin's transformation believable?
  4. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    With the intensity of his feelings for Padme, I still don't believe he would forsake his love for her just to be seduced by the dark side.

    Who says he's going to forsake his love for Padme? Maybe he will think that by defying the Jedi, he is helping Padme.

    Anyway, when he becomes Darth Vader, the name "Anakin Skywalker" has no meaning to him. So, he's not the same Anakin anymore.
  5. jedisurfer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    Yes I to thought jango got "shafted" at the end,...But it's still better then the way boba fett went out! At lease he died in the heat of battle, a "MAN-SHOW" kind of style, head sliced off!..go home, "nothing more to see here folks"..kind of way. Not boba! he was also cool, but how was his fate decided? In a goofy, laurel & hardy, slapstick kinda way!...unbeliveable. He should have gotten killed better that that!....is there a good way to get killed!? Hum,..oh well.
  6. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    JJIB

    To some extent, it is like saying screw you Padme, I'm gonna go to the dark side. Didn't Obi Wan say in ROTJ, that the Emperor knew Vader's children would be powerful, therefore a threat to his own rulership, hence the children were hidden from both of them? I'm going to assume that as a condition, Anakin is going to have to be separated from Padme somehow, or maybe Anakin, himself, decides it would be better for her if he wasn't in her life anymore. Perhaps, when he's thrown into the pit, but survives, he decides that he is too mangled, and ugly to be with her. I'm not sure. What do you think? All I know is that in Ep III, something extreme needs to happen for me to believe Anakin chooses the dark side over the good side. Perhaps, the Emperor threatened to kill Padme, if Anakin had decided not to pledge his allegiance, I have no clue.
  7. kamty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    Ikeshawngrl:

    How about this one. Padme has an affair with Obi-Wan which drives Anakin to the dark side. I think I saw this someplace, but I don't remember. Although unlikely, because of Kenobi's strong conviction towards the Jedi order.
  8. mac-nut Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2001
    star 5
    for the love of a woman, kingdoms have fallen.

    wonder if that's what happens in ep 3.
  9. Yoda808 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Oh something extreme will happen in Episode III. That is why III will be better than I and II.
  10. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    Padme has an affair with Obi-Wan which drives Anakin to the dark side.

    Perhaps Anakin thinks there is an affair between Padme and Obi-Wan. Remember, it was Padme who forced Anakin to go rescue Obi-Wan when Anakin would have left him for dead.

    And then Anakin, in jealousy, will challenge Obi-Wan to a duel. And, of course, Obi-Wan will win. Anakin will suffer injuries which would require robotic attachments and a breathing mask. And who's going to save Anakin? Palpatine/Sidious, of course.

    I also like the theory that Palpatine is going to bring Anakin in to fight Dooku. Anakin beats Dooku using the Dark Side and Anakin takes Dooku's place at the right hand of Palpatine.
  11. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    Kamty

    I read in the deleted scenes for TPM page 11, something along the lines of a love triangle. I hate that crap. Damn, if Anakin is going to go to the dark side, don't make Padme the reason for his descent! Since, GL did not include that scene in TPM or AOTC, I'm gonna assume that there will be no love triangle in eppie III. Of course what the hell do I know, this is just wishful thinking! :(
  12. mac-nut Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2001
    star 5
    GL had to delete alot of scenes to keep the movie within the specified time allotment for the length of movie. He's leaving the triangle, if there will be one, to ep3. It was a good ending of AOTC with the wedding, ending it on a positive note, since GL has emphasized that AOTC would be the love story, and ep3 would be the fall from the light side for Anakin. The marriage being the first step to the dark side since jedi are forbidden to have permanent attachments.
  13. kamty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    "for the love of a woman, kingdoms have fallen."

    Mac-nut, I think you're right on this one. Like Ikeshawngrl, I would hate for him to turn to the dark side because of Padme. I would rather see him take his revenge on Dooku for his missing limb.

  14. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    Kamty & Mac Nut

    The thing is, is that George didn't show any hint of attraction between Padme and Obi-Wan in AOTC. So if all of a sudden, there is a love triangle in ep III, it would seem much too rushed and not very believable. If GL would have at least shown some hint of an attraction on Padme's side, then I would buy JJBI's theory that Anakin would challenge Obi-Wan in a jealous rage. I think it will have to be a combination of various factors that will cause Anakin to turn to the dark side. I don't like plot devices, like love triangles. Something like that diminishes the love between Padme and Anakin making their relationship nothing but fake.

    Sorry but I used to be a Roswell fan, and the same thing happened with a love triangle, but this time I'm sure Obi-Wan won't be having sex with Padme, unlike another series I USED to watch!
  15. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    If GL would have at least shown some hint of an attraction on Padme's side, then I would buy JJBI's theory that Anakin would challenge Obi-Wan in a jealous rage.

    Maybe Anakin will be deceived by Palpatine that Padme and Obi-Wan are having an affair, when in reality they are not. Anakin will remember that it was Padme who decided to rescue Obi-Wan in Ep II. And, of course, Anakin will have a hard time controlling his anger. So, maybe, the "love triangle" will all be in Anakin's mind and also influenced by Palpatine/Sidious.

    But, I also feel that Anakin's turn to the Dark Side will be complete when he kills Dooku.
  16. mac-nut Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2001
    star 5
    Anakin's turn to the dark side is not going to be simply a love triangle. Anakin is very strong willed, justice oriented, very conservative, very square. I didn't foresee Dooku chopping his hand off. Yes, that is ONE reason he'll now be wanting to avenge his lost hand. I suspect he'll be tossed out of the jedi order because of his now permanent personal attachment (Padme). There's also his anger at the lost of his mother, having avenged her death by destroying the Tuskens (sand people). He is filled with rage. He is seeking that "freedom" to practice his sense of justice, to "right" what he considers wrong.

    Obi-wan's relationship with Padme is founded by the jedi order to protect the senator at all costs. With Anakin going on his wild streak, with Anakin being banished by the jedi council, he now becomes persona non grata (unwelcomed), and probably by now a wanted figure himself, for the slaughter of the Tuskens (hello, how old is Boba Fett now, in ep 3?). With Anakin now undependable, it falls upon Obi Wan, one of her original protectors from her days as queen, and whom she trusts, to ensure she remains safe, and that the twins are protected, with Anakin's turn to the dark side. Who's to say that Anakin doesn't help Obi-Wan get Padme to safety, to protect his wife and baby first. Remember, he knows she is pregnant; he doesn't know she's carrying twins (ultra sound is not available there). Could Anakin become jealous that Padme trusts Obi-Wan more than him to ensure her safety? yes, after all, as husband and father, he considers himself her only protector as well as his responsibility to ensure his family's safety. I do see Anakin turning to shades of green and purple, when she defies him (she is a strong person herself, and remember how she put him in his place in AOTC several times) when Obi-Wan contradicts Anakin's plans for his family, and she goes with Obi-Wan. That would be the so-called love triangle, I surmise. Obi-Wan has no romantic thoughts of Padme; he is a committed jedi, of principle, who will not forsake his commitment, the consummate warrior.
  17. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    Remember, he knows she is pregnant; he doesn't know she's carrying twins (ultra sound is not available there). Could Anakin become jealous that Padme trusts Obi-Wan more than him to ensure her safety? yes, after all, as husband and father, he considers himself her only protector as well as his responsibility to ensure his family's safety.

    mac-nut, I agree with you on this. I never thought of the "usual" love triangle. But maybe more of a jealousy. I never thought Padme and Obi-Wan would be romantically interested in each other.

    AOTC shows that although Anakin and Padme loves each other, they do have quite of bit of disagreement. I think this friction will manifest itself more in Ep III. And I hope they show Padme as being "sad" like how Leia described her.

    I think we got a pretty good brainstorming session here. In the main boards, it's hard to keep the dialogue civil.
  18. mac-nut Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2001
    star 5
    agree with you, I do. That's why I don't post in PSA anymore. It tends to get too noisy there. :D

    jealousy feeds anger, and anger leads to doing stupid things, and stupid things leads to making bad choices, which lead to the dark side.
  19. Kmunee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 1
    All of your ideas are very good. You would make very good copnspiracy theorists.
  20. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    Mac Nut and JJIB,

    I enjoy the discussion also. Nice theories. Just one thing, Anakin knows Padme is pregnant? I thought originally he did not know. I think it would be believable to see Anakin's imagination run wild in regards to Obi-Wan and Padme, especially with Palpatine persuading him. Palpatine truly is manipulative in a cunning way.
  21. kamty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    Speechless, I am, with what your minds can come up with!
  22. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    I know that Leia claimed that she remembered her mother was beautiful but sad, but she also said she could only remember images. I was reading one of the discussions on the main board, and there was a debate going on about how old Leia was when her mother died. Basically, one person suggested that Padme died when Leia was either just born, or maybe a year old, and another individual refuted by stating how such was impossible. They then started discussing why it was impossible. Yada yada yada. I have to say though, that since this is Star Wars, the idea that Padme died when Leia was just born or a year old, and her memories are nothing but her inate powers from the force, just might be plausible. Realistically, according to our world, that would be impossible. I know I don't remember a damn thing from when I was just born or even 1 years old. I do have memories from when I was about 3 or 4.

    I can't imagine Padme giving up her children to be raised by others. I mean this is a woman, who knows her own mind. She definitely wouldn't just say ok, Luke will go to Anakin's step-brother, and Leia will go to Bail Organa. I don't even think an executive order would budge her resolve to keep her children with her. One possiblity is like what was mentioned above, maybe the Jedi will convince her that the only way for her children to be safe from the dark side, is if she does separate them.

    So what do y'all think? Was Leia's memory of her mother one of those force induced memories or was she old enough, say maybe 3-5 years of age to actually recall a memory. But then again, maybe Leia was thinking about Mrs Organa? I don't know.
  23. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    I can't imagine Padme giving up her children to be raised by others. I mean this is a woman, who knows her own mind...maybe the Jedi will convince her that the only way for her children to be safe from the dark side, is if she does separate them.

    Well, even by Episode II, Obi-Wan is considered an "old friend." So, if Obi-Wan oversees Luke with Owen and Beru, I'd think Padme would go with that. I speculate that Padme will go to live in the house of Alderaan (but not necessarily have a romance with Bail Organa--yuck!) and try to raise Leia. When Padme dies, Bail will adopt Leia as his own.

    So what do y'all think? Was Leia's memory of her mother one of those force induced memories or was she old enough, say maybe 3-5 years of age to actually recall a memory. But then again, maybe Leia was thinking about Mrs Organa? I don't know.

    I like the fact that the Force gave her "memories" of her mother. But then, Luke was powerful--even more powerful--in the Force as well. Why didn't HE have memories of their mother? I guess we're dealing with super-subconscious memories that not even science can explain.

    The weirdest line in ROTJ is when Leia says she knew all along that Luke was her brother. If she knew, then why'd she KISS him in ESB? I guess she knew....from a certain point of view. ;)
  24. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    Just one thing, Anakin knows Padme is pregnant? I thought originally he did not know.

    Well, in ESB, Vader & the Emperor has a conversation about the Son of Skywalker. So, at the point, they knew about Luke. Did they know before? I'm not sure. There is no indication in ANH that they did. Anyway, Lucas didn't decide whether or not he would make Vader Luke's father until ESB.
  25. ikeshawngrl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    quoted by JJIB

    "Anyway, Lucas didn't decide whether or not he would make Vader Luke's father until ESB."

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Lucas had this story written from like 30 years ago around 1972 before making SW ,ESB, and ROTJ. It was part of Lucas' plan from the beginning to reveal to the audience the fact that Darth Vader was Luke's father. Though Lucas had the script written, it was much too long, so he decided he would divide the storyline. He wanted to start from TPM, but Fox wouldn't hear of it. They wanted him to begin with the first story of the OT. His success with Star Wars made him a rich man, and therefore he was able to fund the other movies himself, without any interference from Fox. That is what he has been doing also for TPM, and now AOTC.

    From what Lucas has stated, this entire saga is about Anakin's life from his beginnings on Tatooine, to his fall to the dark side, and then finally to his redemption.

    I just read the book by R.A. Salvatore, and damn we missed ALOT of scenes which would have enhanced other scences in the movie, if included. Of course, that's the way it goes with books. The book is always better in delving into the minds of the characters. Often times there will be missed scenes in the movie due to time contraints.

    For instance, some scenes in the movie could have been edited out to allow for the incorporation of other more powerful, or emotionally driven scenes, in hopes of capturing more of the audiences' interest. Don't get me wrong, this is truly constructive criticism. I always admire the dedication and vision expressed by those involved in producing anything creative.

    I feel alot of the critics have absolutely no idea what they are ripping apart. If one reads many of the scathing reviews, one would be able to determine just by what was written, by some of these critics, that many have no inkling of what is happening. They are too involved in ostracizing the acting or the this or that, sheesh... I'd like to see some of these airheads produce something remotely similar to the greatness and scope of Star Wars. It's laughable, truly laughable to imagine some of these ding dongs, many of which couldn't write anything entertaining to save their lives, try to create anything as creative as Lucas' saga. The story needs to be told sequentially to fully understand Lucas' vision. Many of the critics are judging his movies as if they were individual stories, when in fact each of them tie in together.
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