AotC Ultimate Edition Soundtrack?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by ComicDude, Jan 22, 2002.

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  1. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    Ideally, it should be the other way around.

    JW should be able to write and record the score, without either the film or the score being seriously tinkered with after the fact. Then, the score could be released as it was recorded, with the few cues that were edited being presented as supplemental material, and those cues should take up little more than 10-15 minutes of disc space.

    Ideally.

    With ANH, the score as it was heard in the film can actually fit entirely on one 80 minute CD, minus the cantina songs and some cues that were edited out entirely. The second CD could then give us the concert suites, the cantina songs, and the versions of the cues unedited, as JW recorded them. That would give us the best of both worlds: what was heard in the film, and the unedited versions.

    With ESB and ROTJ, they could have given us everything JW recorded, and then the few cues that were edited as a supplment on the second disc, with some shifting of material. It would all have fit.

    With TPM, however, it would have required a four disc set to give us both the music JW recorded and the unedited versions.

    Hopefully, with AOTC, the music will be closer to the OT in that all of the music JW recorded and the edited for film content could fit on two CDs without any other releases ever being necessary. That would be best for the film and the fans.
  2. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Gotta disagree, stri, I like the multitudes of tracks. It makes for navigating around the CD easier. You hardly ever have to fastforward!
  3. YodaClaus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2002
    OK...

    The music for ESB and ROTJ was composed for a longer movie, hence, the longer cues. Now, in order to have an enjoyable listening experience (ie - no horrendous awful cuts) they supplied all of the music to us so that it flows more like an opera than a movie edited for TV. DO you get what I'm saying? I guess the real question is, are you a music fan, or a Star Wars geek? I guess I will never truly understand the other 95% of the population. You are given something spectacular (TESB-SE) and you whine about it, whereas you are given a steaming pile of dog doo (TPM-UE) and you say "BRAVO!!! I like to hear 9 cymbal crashes in a row that make me wonder if my CD is skipping!!!!!!!" By the way, 'Battle of Naboo' has a section with 9 crashes...those werent written, the editor looped it to fit the absurdly edited scene...Now I know why we get tripe like the UE...its because the other 95% of the population has no taste whatsoever. This can be backed up with some peoples fascination with James Horner, or giving Oscars to undeserving scores...Well, this is all I have to say. I hope you come to realize that since there is unreleased music, there is ureleased footage to go with those cues, or extended scenes...but you people are more than happy to have extended scenes in your movie, HEAVEN FORBID you get extended music...I'm out...


    St. Yodes
  4. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Hey good idea as a total newbie to come in here and INSULT people who have been here a while.

    By the way, if you had READ my posts you would see that I was saying DON'T give us the expanded extra unused stuff IN PLACE of the film versions, give us the extra unused stuff IN ADDITION to the film versions. Simple as that.

    And never once have I said I am completely happy with the TPM UE. It has issues. The ridiculous way they chopped up Williams' score is also lame but it was Lucas' decision to keep recutting the film. I do have issue with this but I am much happier with the flawed TPM UE than I was with the pathetic OST.
  5. YodaClaus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Newbie, yes...to this board. But does that make my comments any less valid? No. I only posted to this message because on my native board - JWFan.net, it was brought to my attention that for some reason you were complaining about one of the best soundtracks ever created (ESB-SE) yet at the same time quasi-praising the UE... I guess the explaination of what I was saying was this...beware, this starts with a question...

    If Lucas decided to throw more footage of the movies in, would you mind? I can say, honestly, that I know there is more out there, stuff that may make the movies better in fact. How do I know? The music tells us this. Wouldnt you like to see this footage in relation to the scene it was cut from? Or would you rather it be treated as an afterthought?

    With your proposition, the unreleased/unused cues would be treated just like that. It would totally disrupt the THEATRICAL FLOW of the music by itself.
    It can be equated with this age-old debate:

    Widescreen or Pan-and-Scan?

    Film Affictionados will say widescreen. Why? Because that it the way it was meant to be presented as per the artist of the film, just as the ESB-SE is presented as Williams meant it to be presented. If everyone released 'film-cut' soundtracks, you would hear TERRIBLE edits from almost all of them. Why? Because of last minute editing. These cuts aren't generally heard in the film because of explosions and the lot taking place of the musical transitions.

    Now, for those who say Pan-and-Scan, they are simply ignorant of what the advantage of widescreen is. They simply haven't been educated.

    Given that, I am here to educate you on this.

    And what gives me, the newbie, the right to educate you, the veteran?

    Quite simply, I had knowledge I wanted to share. And, as a film score major, I feel it necessary to let everyone know why things are done the way they are.

    Well, I hope you don't find this insulting,

    St. Yodes
  6. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    *warning* *warning* \\siren goes off\\ We have a newbie to this board who does not want to be disagreed with.

    LOL, personally, I could not care a whole lot less if you were a film score major or not, that does not make you any better than me being here at this message board for almost 3 years and you only registering this month. Anyways, that's not part of this discussion.

    Oh, about this quote:
    "Now, for those who say Pan-and-Scan, they are simply ignorant of what the advantage of widescreen is. They simply haven't been educated.

    Given that, I am here to educate you on this.
    "

    Now that is the most arrogant and stuck-up thing I've heard someone say in this Music forum in a while. Actually, the people who like Pan-and-Scan (like, say, for instance, my family) like it for several reasons. The picture itself is bigger than it would be if it was widescreen and it doesn't have the black lines that some people find annoying. Just for the heck of it, I'll let you know that I'm a fan of widescreen too, but I definitely can see the advantages to pan-and-scan as well.

    You're here to educate us on this? HUH boy...
  7. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    Guys, lay off. Your registration date should not be a point of contention. Grow up, please.
  8. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yeah I think the best thing here is for us to stop hijacking this thread, like I tried to earlier. I say we talk about the AOTC Soundtrack release here or close this thread and go to the main Attack of the Clones score discussion thread and discuss things there.

    If we want to discuss the merits of the TPM UE CD release vs. the SE Trilogy soundtrack releases, then we should create a thread for that or find an existing thread that talks about that.
  9. bright sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 1999
    star 5
  10. MornNB Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Strilo, try to understand that the TPM UE really pisses off John Williams fans whos main interest is the music, getting as much of it as possible and getting it without stupid edits.
    If you understand this, then you can understand YodaClaus tone. He was outraged that someone would suggest the TPM UE is good. For him, it is as if the dvd of ESB was released with 20 minutes of scenes missing and then having someone say this is a better dvd release then the TPM one.
  11. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Before the UE came out, All I ever read (here, SW.com, Sony) was that it was "The music as heard in the film"

    I don't understand why people say they weren't given what they were promised
  12. jamesdrax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 6
    Have you guys actually listened to the ESB soundtrack over the movie?

    You'd be surprised how well it fits at most points.

    ;)
  13. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    halibut, you're wrong. Sony promoted the UE as "every note written by John Williams". It is not. In fact, there is music on the original soundtrack that is not on the UE because it was edited from the film. The UE is the music for TPM as edited to fit the film, and is so heavily edited that JW sent what he called "a letter of disapprobation" to GL in which he expressed his displeasure at what was done to the score, and specifically asked that it not appear on the DVD as an isolated track because he found what was done to the score embarrassing.

    If that works for some of you, great, but some of us would someday actually like to hear the score the man actually recorded, not the hatchet job we got instead.
  14. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Sony promoted the UE as "every note written by John Williams".

    Fair enough, but I was certainly aware months before the UE came out that it was the music AS HEARD IN THE MOVIE, and nothing else.

    I feel sorry for Lucas and Sony here. All people ever did about the OT scores (as witnessed in this thread) is moan that they haven't got all the music IN THE MOVIE, so Lucas appeases them by releasing the UE (ie "all the music IN THE MOVIE") and what happens. People moan again. I guess there's no pleasing anyone these days
  15. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    No pleasing anyone, I agree. I do feel sorry for them. But then maybe they need to bring an educated film score fan like Lukas Kendall into the process of creating an Ultimate Edition type release. After all, who is gonna buy an Ultimate Edition?? The FILM SCORE FANS!!! So give em what they want and that's how you'll make the most money. All the casual score fans will be happy with the OST.
  16. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    "Give them what they want"

    I agree, but as I said, before the fans were screaming for all the music that was in the film! Just read the posts above for confirmation of that. Perhaps GL will learn what the fans really want for the next soundtrack, but it's not his fault, it's the fans. They said they wanted all the music from the film, and that's what they got. Now if the fans would just make their minds up, then maybe GL will appease them!
  17. Well_Of_Souls Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2001
    star 5
    In case this hasn't been mentioned before (although, I'm sure it has), there won't be a 2 CD release of AOTC, at least not right away as some people have hoped.

    At Amazon.com, you can see that the first release of AOTC will be one disc.

    Perhaps we will get a 2 disc release soon after, like we did with TPM.
  18. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Crud.

    Crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, crud, CRUD!
  19. DarthLarry Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 1

    does anyone else think that since john williams has been in the film scoring business for as long as he has, he expects his score to be edited and cut--to the film?! isn't that kind of the point of the music anyway--to support the film? i'm sure PM was not the first time his music was edited after the recording of the score.

    now, don't get me wrong, i love john williams' music. i'm a professional classical musician and will defend his merits as a composer til the day i die, and guess what? i absolutely love the TPMUE. i, also, am miffed that i don't have the entire ESB opening. now, i like the filler stuff, but i want to hear what is in the movie, since it is a *film* score. it belongs with an image, since it was written with the images in mind.

    i, for one, was really disappointed with the original PM soundtrack cos it is so chopped up. yes, i know, it supposedly flows better, but i'd rather hear what was in the movie anyday. again, i like the filler and extra stuff, but tack them on as bonus tracks.

    i really hope they release an AOTC UE soundtrack. but if they don't? i won't cry about it, cos they don't *owe* me anything. if they don't want to release an expanded edition, they don't have to.

    all right, i'll get off my soap box, but i just wanted to throw some thoughts out there.

    by the way, where did you hear the jw sent a disapproving letter to george? he *has* to be used to directors chopping around his score by now!
  20. jamesdrax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 6
    Johnny will probably do the Harry Potter approach this time by chopping up the music but keeping it in film order. Most of the Potter soundtrack was in film order and not the bleeding mess the TPM soundtrack was.
  21. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    The way that I heard it was that John Williams has never had a score as butchered and edited up as TPM. It always happens in minor ways and John expects that but TPM was hacked up to a much larger degree than anything before it.

  22. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    The way that I heard it was that John Williams has never had a score as butchered and edited up as TPM.


    Correct. It is not only the most heavily edited score in SW, it's the most heavily edited JW score of all time. The majority of the score was altered. I could sit here typing all night and still not list every edit in the score, and I'm a damn fast typist.
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