AOTC would be a lot more powerful if...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by angelak, Apr 6, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. --Skywalker-- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2004
    star 2
    AotC was great. IF there was one thing to hate, it's being/looking more hi-tech than the Originals.THATS IT!
  2. angelak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    <<Did you individually question the millions of people who saw the film as to whether or not the romance worked? Did you do a survey door to door? No, you're just assuming the majority perceived it the way you do. Don't make flat, factual statements when in fact, you're just guessing everyone agrees with YOU.>>

    Oh, yes, I'm just an isolated individual who has no contact with the outside world, and gosh, regardless that every review I've read even on theforce.net says the love story was weak, regardless that I have friends who would rather watch Jar Jar Binks than the love sequences in Ep. 2, regardless that when I've shown the film in the order I suggested even having to repeatively go through menus, people who thought of the film as some one-time watch average movie enjoyed it.

    << ANAKIN: (whispering) I think you're magical... >>

    That line is more corny than the I hate sand bit and moving to how things are smooth and soft

    <<PADME: (looks back at him, smiles very slightly, and a tear forms in her eye, looks away) Please...please don't talk like that.>>

    A tear forming in her eye? Oh give me a break! She's been pretty much rejecting him. Talk about melodrama!

    <<What Lucas attempted to do was combine a Courtly Love* story with an action movie.>>

    Uh, King Author is a Courtly Love story and has plenty of action in it. Now, I hate "Le Morte de Author" Granted, I haven't read it since highschool, but the man who wrote it needs to use periods. Just one run-on sentence after another. It drove me nuts!

    << And the fact that she WILLINGLY followed him to Tatoonie speaks vollumes... >>

    Actually that's the scene where Padme actually appears to have real feelings for him. Its just the whole progress of getting there that is unconvincing.

    <<Lucas had a envious task, attempting to bring this type of story in WHILE doing a star wars film. Unlike ESB, where Han and Liea was chased by the empire, Lucas forego any immediate physical danger and let the romance speak for itself.>>

    You're paraphrasing what was said in one of the mini-documentaries. He fails at the love story. There is nothing to make the love story incompatible with Star Wars. The only difference between the two is that he placed them in a romantic setting and that the love story starts with this movie while Leia and Han had feelings for each other beforehand.

    <<see-sawing emotions, denying, chasing until the woman realizes its real. >>
    You mean like "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers". Granted, you probably have no clue what movie I'm talking about. Its a 1940's musical. The oldest brother goes to town to find a wife and a woman agrees to marry him to get out of her situation. On the way to his home, they fall in love, but its put in jeperdy when she finds out that he lives with six brothers and that they're all a bunch of lazy slobs who do not act civilized. She helps them brush him and make them civilized and warns them that they'll never find a wife if they act in such a way.

    Unfortunately, they're idiots. Once they go to town to meet women, they are able to get some womens' interest, but they can't stay civilized long enough before they get into a with some other men. The women are horribly turned off by this.

    They get advice from their brother, but take it wrong and decide to go into town to kidnap the girls in order to force the girls to love them. The townspeople chase after them, but there is an avalanche which seperates the townspeople and the kidnapped girls.

    So the girls are stuck living with their kidnappers. The first wife, who is now pregnant, is horrified by this and she and her husband has a fight, so he goes off into the wilderness for the winter. The brothers sleep in the barn while the girls get the house, but eventually the girls start changing their minds about the guys and start flirting with them and fall for their kidnappers. The wife has her baby in the spring while the townspeople come to their place since the snow has melted. Then when they hear the baby cry, all the women cla
  3. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    So all of your friends constitutes the majority of people? The majority of reviews on this site say the love story was weak? You need to go read threads by people other than bashers who agree with your point of view. I read lots of threads on here where people have no problem with the love story. There is a documented psychological phenomenon in the world. Many studies have shown that the majority of people studied believe that the majority of people in the rest of the country/world/city/etc. have the same point of view on a given topic as they do, even when a seperate poll says otherwise.

    I had no problem with the love story. It was suppost to be corney. Star Wars is suppost to be kind of corney, over the top, and melodramatic. It is in the tradition of Saturday afternoon serials during the 40's and 50's. As far as I'm concerned, it is an invalid argument to say something in a SW movie is bad because it is corney. It's like saying the Simpsons is bad because it's a cartoon.
  4. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Uh, King Author is a Courtly Love story and has plenty of action in it. Now, I hate "Le Morte de Author" Granted, I haven't read it since highschool, but the man who wrote it needs to use periods. Just one run-on sentence after another. It drove me nuts!


    To be sure King Author (also known as Arthur) was courtly love story and had action in it... however there are Three difference about Le Morte d'Arthur and Attack of the Clones:

    One it is a book, thus it has many pages it needs to combine both successful. Lucas had two hours to tell his tale. (The version you read must have been a good translation... most puntuation didn't exist when it was written.)

    Two: Attack of the clones is the second part of part story, Le Morte d'Arthur is a complete story...so we have reasons to believe that the romance will continue to develop one way the other.

    Thirdly: Arthurs story HINGES on the love triangle between Lancelot, Guenever, and Arthur. AOTC is about Anakins slowly falling to the dark side...and the corruption of the galaxy. The romance in the words of Lucas that the romance was a "Love Haiku" In other words, it's not supposed to be a fully formed romance story.

    The romance in the movie is ment to do two things in the saga: One give us the mother of Luke and Liea and two when ROTS hits, it will show how far he has gone.


    You're paraphrasing what was said in one of the mini-documentaries. He fails at the love story. There is nothing to make the love story incompatible with Star Wars. The only difference between the two is that he placed them in a romantic setting and that the love story starts with this movie while Leia and Han had feelings for each other beforehand.



    First of all, if I did paraphrase one of the documentraries, it was because it is true. Lucas went out on a limb and tried a straight romance for romance sakes...without a bunch of lasers going off.

    He HAD to keep the Star Wars feeling going without the benifit of special effects or a space battle. He succeded at keeping the pace. Did he fail at the love story? Of a realistic love story? If you were expecting a realistic cinema romance you were bound to be dissapointed. If you expecting a stylized romance in the tradition of a greek epic or mythology... then yes...he succeded if you use that style.

    First of all...the romance WAS set up from the begining of the movie. It started when she smiled a very wide smile and said

    "Ani, is that you? You've grown"

    If you look at the expression she had on her face... it is not puzzlement, or of confused shock. She is smiling wide....PLEASANTLY surprised.

    "Youv'e grown too... more beatiful"

    Two things to look out in this scene... her body gaurds "You are a looser, kid look." And her expression on her face when she says..

    "You'll always be that little boy from Tatoonie"

    Again, her she's still smiling...there is no hint of sarcasm in her voice, nor an expression of cruelty. She is, in fact, enjoying the compliment, but being the older "royalty" woman in this courtly love story, she has set up the hoops that he will be required to jump through. She is not going to fall right into his arms.

    She IS physically attracted to him from the begining...but remember, being the logical one, Padme does not give in easily.

    Han and Liea are different as well in this fact: They had spent time together since the last movie. Thus they were NOT trying to re-establish a romance. The longing looks between H & L would not work here...they were dealing the opportunity that a love was going to be lost. A&P were re-establishing their relationship after 10 years apart. They are two adults...one who had given up his family and serve the galaxy as a jedi. The other who gave her personal life in order to serve her people.

    You mean like "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers". Granted, you probably have no clue what movie I'm talking about. Its a 1940's musical.


    First of all, when you are debating with someone...never u
  5. angelak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    <<So all of your friends constitutes the majority of people? The majority of reviews on this site say the love story was weak? You need to go read threads by people other than bashers who agree with your point of view. I read lots of threads on here where people have no problem with the love story.>>

    Yet you admit is corny and melodramatic, but let it go because "Its Star Wars." I do not find the original triology corny or melodramatic. Its not even that I think ATOC is corny or that Star Wars is bad. I just think that it could have been edited better.

    << There is a documented psychological phenomenon in the world. Many studies have shown that the majority of people studied believe that the majority of people in the rest of the country/world/city/etc. have the same point of view on a given topic as they do, even when a seperate poll says otherwise.>>

    Polls are unreliable, especially when they're done in an online environment. Even looking at these boards, you're only getting the percentage of Star Wars fans who care enough to make posts. When something isn't liked or fans are disappointed with the new triology, they tend to lose interest. It's interesting that you could possibly take a psycology class and not be taught that surveys and polls are the most unreliable research.

    Its great you're bonding with people who agree with you, but if you go wonder the streets and ask some random person what they thought of Padme and Anakin in Attack of the Clones, they will tell you that they lacked chemestry.

    << It is in the tradition of Saturday afternoon serials during the 40's and 50's. >>

    The films of that time were not meant to be corny, melodramatic and over the top, nor can you say that about the better films of that time period.

    <<As far as I'm concerned, it is an invalid argument to say something in a SW movie is bad because it is corney.>>

    I never said bad. I said weak and could be easily improved upon with some mere editing.

    <<Lucas had two hours to tell his tale. >>

    I haven't timed it out, but pull out the arrival on Naboo (the actual scene, not the trasition. There are actually two transitions. If you don't cut to the second transition, it looks like an area where Padme's parents could live) and meeting with the queen and in its place stick in Meeting Padme's parents (not the extra packing scene. Its pointless. Why is she always packing?), and then simple have the stolen kiss and the pinic trade places, and you've maybe added a minute or two. I can't test it right now because my stupid DVD rom drive is over senstive to tiny little scratches and won't recognize the second disc to attack of the clones nor the first disc to the phantom menance. My portable dvd player, but I don't feel like pulling that thing out. Maybe later. But regardless, doing just that, the romance between the two would be more convincing.

    << First of all...the romance WAS set up from the begining of the movie.>>

    Not according to the DVD commentary. Its been awhile, but I know that one of them said that Padme was thinking of Anakin as a little boy. The reason they cut the parents scene is because of time and they somehow felt that they had already been showing Padme melting. I say they failed at showing her melt enough.

    << Again, her she's still smiling>>

    Ok, so if I have a guy friend that I haven't seen in ten years and I'm like five years older than him, the first time I see him, I'm going to smile because "oh wow the kid grew up." I'll still feel quite a bit older than him and think of him as a kid. So I smile at him reminicing about the past. I'm not sacrastic. "You'll always be that little boy I knew from Tatooine" with a smile just means she has fond memories of him. She called him a little boy. It doesn't mean condecension, just is fact point blank.

    <<Remember, she's the logical one.>>

    Then where did her logic go with that kiss. She hasn't melted enough. You've gotta break free through that.

    Take for instance a crush I had last summer. Mario was my rosary buddy.
  6. angelak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    I just tested it. I had the scene playing on my computer and the deleted scene playing on my portible dvd player. They are exactly the same length. That is that the arrival on Naboo and meeting with the queen runs exactly the same length as Padme's Parent's house.
  7. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    << There is a documented psychological phenomenon in the world. Many studies have shown that the majority of people studied believe that the majority of people in the rest of the country/world/city/etc. have the same point of view on a given topic as they do, even when a seperate poll says otherwise.>>

    Polls are unreliable, especially when they're done in an online environment. Even looking at these boards, you're only getting the percentage of Star Wars fans who care enough to make posts. When something isn't liked or fans are disappointed with the new triology, they tend to lose interest. It's interesting that you could possibly take a psycology class and not be taught that surveys and polls are the most unreliable research.

    That is such a "psych 101" statement. I have a degree in Psychology. Did you know that unreliable in this context means not being able to replicate results? This is not always the case with polls. Really, there is not any "most unreliable" form of research. It depends on the quality of the research. I did not compile any polls with regard to SW based on TFN forums. Any research done in an anonymous online environment is unreliable because you have no respondent control. What I was referring to was a series of studys that showed that, for example, a respondent against gay marriage would report that the majority of other similar people felt the same way they do. In many cases, that was not backed up by survey results on that topic. These studies were very reliable since the results were replicated many times.

    << It is in the tradition of Saturday afternoon serials during the 40's and 50's. >>

    The films of that time were not meant to be corny, melodramatic and over the top, nor can you say that about the better films of that time period.

    I was clearly not referring to films of that time. I was referring to the Saturday matinee serials GL has repeatedly said were the inspiration for SW. Their equivalent to television.

    Finally, I think all this talk of Padme and Anakin's relationship not being portrayed realistically is silly. SW is a fantasy movie. Nothing is portrayed realistically. I assert that Han and Leia's romance was less convincing because in 3 scenes, they go from first kiss (which Leia runs away from) to apprehensive smooching in Cloud City to Leia telling Han she loves him. Leia never appears to melt. I know they had 3 months on the Falcon, but by your logic we can't infer anything that happened during that time since it wasn't on screen.



  8. Tokio_Drifter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2003
    star 2
    I think the choppy editing serves this movie very well. It has a foreboding quality which is related to the subconscious powers in the flick which are brooding heavily!

    So yeah it's choppy, and it makes you feel uncomfortable but it serves the story IMHO.
  9. aPPmaSTer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2004
    star 3
    No, IMO the choppiness of the editing does nothing more than decrease the quality of the movie. It just looks like a movie that COULD have been edited much better, in fact some mistakes are so obvious that they stick out like sore thumbs and completely distract the viewer, but was not edited for God knows what reason.
  10. Tokio_Drifter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2003
    star 2
    Love it or Hate it I guess.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.