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Lit Apropos of Nothing - ACKBAR IN CAPITALS - The Lit Forum Social Thread, v2.0.15

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Master_Keralys, Jan 1, 2009.

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  1. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
  3. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    So you all know what I mean from here on out:
    [​IMG]

    (Cribbed from reddit, naturally)

    EDIT: Whoa, larger than I intended. Hidden in spoiler tags, now.

    EDIT 2: Oh, incidentally, I'm also punning with the above. I'll let you figure it out, though.
     
  4. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    May 28, 2003
    That is awesome. Even I will admit it is disturbing, but pure awesome. :D

    --Adm. Nick
     
  5. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Uh, okay, that I did not see.

    All I can think is: "Paint me with some of your french fries, Jack."
     
  6. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
  7. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The next Suvudu Gateway series novel is The Paradise Snare, and they manage to not mention the Han Solo Adventures, the most heavily related thing to the Han Solo Trilogy there is. I completely understand bringing up Scoundrels, but not bringing up the Han Solo Adventures is beyond me, and I haven't even read the Han Solo Adventures.
     
  8. Darth_Kiryan

    Darth_Kiryan Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2009
    WTF
     
  9. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
  10. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    May 28, 2003
    I am soooo in love with the Dragonborn expansion to Skyrim. Returning to Solstheim is a real treat for anyone who loved Morrowind and it's expansions. The biggest treat of all is the music. Just hearing the old music from Morrowind is a huge treat. Visiting old locales, seeing Raven Rock 200 years after its founding, exploring the ruins of Fort Frostmouth- all of it rocks. And since I am a big fan of learning the "history" within the game, it is nice to learn more about the Oblivion Crisis's affects on Morrowind and the eventual withdrawal of the Empire from the province. We learn how and why House Redoran rose to such prominence, which is very cool and makes good sense. While I always play a Imperial who is loyal to the Empire, it is also apparent that many of the Empire's bad decisions over the prior two centuries directly contributed to it's state in the current era. By pulling back the bulk of the Legions to Cyrodiil during the Oblivion Crisis, many of the provinces justly felt that the Empire didn't care about their wellbeing.

    Anyways, I encourage all of you to go get the expansion!

    --Adm. Nick
     
  11. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    I'm rather intrigued as to how the Dunmer view the Empire at this point. Argh, another month until the PC release.

    The rise of Redoran to new prominence is rather surprising. I assumed that the combination of the Daedra destroying Ald-Ruhn, the concurrent war with the eastern holds of Skyrim, the eruption of Red Mountain and the Argonian invasion, not to mention their already declining power, would have finished them off. I had assumed that Hlaalu, being the most tolerant and pro-Imperial of the Great Houses, would have ended up in a position of power. I tend to play as a pro-Imperial Dunmer- one of the most satisfying moments of my first playthrough was executing Ulfric for crimes against the Empire and against my people.

    Two questions: So are the Dunmer loyal, isolationist, or outright separatist? Most of the in-game dialogue in the main game suggests that they are still considered to be part of the Empire, though the Legion is a little wary of their loyalty. Second, did the Dunmer incorporate the Skaal tribes into their political structure in any way?
     
  12. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    May 28, 2003
    Essentially, when the Oblivion Crisis begins, the Empire pulls nearly every Legion in Morrowind back to Cyrodiil to defend their homeland. When Oblivion Gates start appearing in Morrowind, the Dunmer are essentially defenseless and suffer tremendous losses. Eventually, House Redoran gathers together various Dunmer militia groups and forms a Dunmer army and fight to close gates in their homeland. Following the resolution of the Oblivion Crisis, the Empire essentially abandons Morrowind. The various Dunmer house turn on House Hlaalu, making them the scapegoat for all their pent up frustrations. The house essentially is erradicated and the Redoran become the main power in Morrowind. The Argonians eventually invade and it is the Redoran Army that prevents them from conquering, at great cost.

    The Empire, following the Oblivion Crisis and the war against the Aldmeri Dominion, is essentially reduced to just Cyrodiil, High Rock, and Skyrim. As far as the relationship between the Dunmer and the Empire goes, they don't appear to be enemies, but the Dunmer undoubtedly still resent the Empire for pulling back all the Legions.

    I want the Empire restored, but I am not sure how they will do it. They have their work cut out for them.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  13. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    Hmm, so province in name only. Makes my first character's backstory as an exiled Hlaalu noble all the more interesting.

    My personal belief is that, despite what a silly treacherous, racist, demagogic (yes, Jello, I don't like all demagogues :p) jerk Ulfric is, the Empire's best chance for success is to forge a secret truce with the Stormcloaks. Put on the appearance of civil war to fool the Thalmor observers while the Empire goes about and tries to recruit the rest of Tamriel to fight the Thalmor. Convince the Redguards that they are serious about taking the war to Alinor this time around, contact the anti-Thalmor resistance in Valenwood, convince the Orcs to enlist in large numbers, play on the old Dunmer hatred of the Altmer (after all, the reason that the Chimer migrated to Resdayn in the first place was to get away from the orthodox Aldmer who later became the modern Altmer- the Chimer literally became a separate group out of opposition to Altmer religion and culture), convince the Stormcloaks that the Empire will restore the worship of Talos and go on the offensive against the Aldmeri Dominion. Use the Civil War to buy time to do all of this, and as soon as the Empire has enlisted these groups declare a truce with the Stormcloaks and declare war on the Aldmeri Dominion.

    Also, get the Dragonborn to enlist the aid of the Dragons/dig up a third Numidium. Because the Empire might as well have a deus ex machina in reserve, just in case.
     
  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I loved all the Great House politics of Morrowind. I always sided with Hlaalu even though I knew they were two-faced schemers, because they were the loyal ones... Telvanni was too xenophobic, Dres wasn't around, and Redoran too stodgy. I suppose technically I could have joined Indoril via the Temple hierarchy, but I never have my Imperial characters join the Temple.

    That *still* always confounds me. :p

    I agree with you about it as far as I've seen the trailer -- when I posted it in here earlier, it was like... well, basically like a homecoming, watching all those familiar things. And the music must be great -- Skyrim itself had a few tracks of Morrowind here and there, and whenever I hear it, I feel like I'm trying to navigate those godawful cantons of Vivec again.

    I can't wait. And if there are any Dwemer ruins in Dragonborn, I hope they're the old-Morrowind-style steampunk Babylonian Dwemer instead of the whole generic Dragon Age (and therefore LOTR) style dwarven stuff from vanilla Skyrim.
     
  15. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    I'd be confounded if there were any Dwemer ruins in Dragonborn. IIRC Bloodmoon made it clear that the Dwemer had never settled Solstheim. That being said, I agree, though I can justify the differences as being due to distinct cultural groups within the Dwemer- makes me wonder what the Clan Rourken ruins in Hammerfell look like.

    As for houses, I usually either sided with Hlaalu- because I was a loyalist and usually play a rogue/nightblade- or Telvanni- because I decided to be a Sith Lord :p. As for playing as a loyal Imperial, I suppose one could always play as a Colovian separatist. I'm sure there's three or four of them somewhere. Dres is supposed to have been the most racist of the houses- their holdings bordered Black Marsh, and they were the biggest slavers of the bunch. Tamriel Rebuilt will probably add them in by 2020 or so.
     
  16. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 29, 2005
    I always play a Breton. And if you follow the Imperial path to the end before the main quest, you'll get the word straight from Ulfric's mouth that you were right to do so.

    Shouting Ulfric down was the best piece of poetic justice since I killed Caesar in Fallout: New Vegas wearing the Burned Man's armor and with Boone and Rex as my companions.
     
  17. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah, Caesar was an awful, awful jerk. I was said I couldn't side with the Enclave Remnants. Old people are funny.
     
  18. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    You could recruit them to fight for you at the end battle, which is pretty fun as well.
     
  19. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    May 28, 2003
    Well, I have always been a big lover of Roman history, both during the Republic period and the later Empire. Granted, if the Empire had a faction that wanted to depose the Emperor and restore power to a Senate, I might feel slightly different. But yes, the Roman elements of the Empire make it one of my favorite factions. For what it is worth, I have always loved that the Empire was against slavery and allowed all races to join the Legion. Those elements of the Empire make it a good choice in my book. I loved that after I killed Ulfric that I went around making sure that any Dark Elves in the area were taken care of. I was a patron of their businesses so that they could make a living. :p

    Rumor has it that the next DLC for Skyrim will involve choosing a new king and an apparent war with the elves. I sincerely hope that it refers to Aldmeri elves and not the Dunmer, though the Nords and Dunmer do have a long history of conflict. The Nine Divines know that the Empire cannot afford another war that saps its strength...

    --Adm. Nick
     
  20. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I should tell you about the time where I argued with the professor who wrote one of our textbooks in undergrad. I had remarked how I disliked several of the claims that the author made in our text and thought that it was needlessly tendentious, and my prof was like "well he's visiting next week, perhaps you can tell him yourself." This guy was basically talking about how Constantine had saved the Empire and that greater concentration of power under the throne was a good thing, and he'd argued that the narratives of bad emperors came from senatorial sources so we couldn't trust them, etc. He said that the late emperors came from more modest backgrounds and cared more about the reality on the ground than boring things like literature, arts, and culture.

    I contested his arguments and said that while the late republic was a disaster, the best emperors pointedly had the best relationship with the Senate, and that the Senate overall was the *essential* institution to the Roman state that made it what it was. So this guy goes up to my prof and says "one of your students just accused me of being a rabble-rouser and a populist." My prof was shocked and said that he'd talk to me, and the author says "no, it's great. It's totally true." He seemed very pleased at the accusations. :p

    Re: Skyrim itself, yeah, I don't know how anybody could honestly buy into Ulfric's "oh noes we're oppressed" narrative and yet not get appalled by what the Nords do to the Dunmer. They're horrific racists.

    I hope you're right about the next DLC -- especially if the elves in question are the Thalmor. I love messing with their agents every time I see them.
     
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  21. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    See, I'm torn on the Thalmor. On the one hand, I feel that they need to have some sort of greater treatment than they received in Skyrim- clearly their designs on the Dragonborn are not benign, and they are clearly an element of his/her story. On the other hand, I feel that the conflict with the Thalmor is too big to be properly resolved in a DLC.
     
  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Who said resolved? I just want them as an antagonist. They don't have to be defeated -- perhaps just kicked out of Skyrim, or a new, full-scale war begun.
     
  23. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    I say resolved because I suspect that a Thalmor-centric DLC would be expected to resolve the Thalmor somehow. Which is unlikely- my prediction is that ES VI will deal directly with the Thalmor as the primary antagonist, and will be set either in Valenwood, Hammerfell or Alinor.
     
  24. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I am in love with plain old Skyrim, so I suspect I will greatly enjoy the DLC when I finally get internet set up. Though I am also pretty sure I need to do some leveling (I am only level 10) and ideally purchase Breezehome before I continue with the main quest, I have already reached Diplomatic Immunity in Act II.
     
  25. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Agreed, and I haven't heard anything rumor-wise myself, only wishful thinking.

    My guess is that they will have at least another 'tweaking' DLC like Hearthfire - and if we take the example of Dragonborn, I would guess that another DLC would lead into a new world area adjacent to Skyrim - such as Orsinium.
     
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