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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Are all imperials sociopaths?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Dark Ferus, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    I think the title is pretty self explanatory. Basically, is every individual affiliated with the empire as evil as Palpatine, Vader or Tarkin?
     
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  2. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Of course not. Just like not every German affiliated with the Nazis were mass-murdering psychopaths. And yes, Godwin's law apply since Lucas did draw heavily from Nazi Germany when creating the Galactic Empire.
     
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  3. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Let's answer this question. No they are not and this is shown throughout history and through Finn.
     
  4. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    That and drawing inspiration from all Empires down through the ages.
     
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  5. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    This is a strange question. Why would they be?
     
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  6. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003
    I would guess the point being made here is, if individual members of the imperial forces thought that such destruction (like planet destroying, for example), poor treatment/exploitation of defenseless planets and harsh rule were not right, than why would they have joined the Empire-and/or continued to serve?

    My answer to this is that in most cases they were serving less than willingly (via draft), or they could've felt there was no other option availiable if they or their loved ones were to survive...Compromise, in a word.


    I think Finn is a good example of this, and what can happen when one chooses to act on their disagreement with such practices.
     
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  7. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    Finn isn't a member of the Empire, but the FO which existed after the Empire. While the FO tries to emulate aspects of the Empire, it does have big differences such as being much more equality and not using cloning as well as completely different leadership.
     
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  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In Lost Stars, one of the two protagonists has a crisis of faith when she realises just how evil the Emperor is, after discovering the existence of the 2nd Death Star (she thought the only valid justification for the first Death Star was preventing civil war, and since civil war happened anyway, the 2nd Death Star lacked that justification.

    What keeps her in the Empire is her own honor code - when she joined the military, she swore to obey - and no amount of horribleness from the Empire will cause her to break her oaths.
     
  9. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    What could they do?

    Imperial Employee: “Tarkin! I object to you blowing up Alderaan! This is NOT the Empire I want to serve!”
    Tarkin: “Lord Vader, please teach this cadet some manners.”
    Lord Vader: <Force Chokes>

    It's easy for us to take the moral high-ground because we don't have rifles literally and metaphorically aimed at our backs. You'd be surprised at how differently you'd act when you're in a situation where taking the moral side winds up with you being dead.
     
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  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    That's where planning comes in - instead of objecting to your boss's face, you quietly plan your escape from the Empire, maybe even joining the Rebellion.

    Still risky - but taking risks for one's morals is probably what makes the difference between "Good" and "Neutral" so to speak.
     
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  11. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
    most troopers are just doing there job. agent kallus in rebels is questioning it as well as all the rebels that are ex imperials, which is a lot. rotj has a deleted scene where the guy in charge of the ds 2 doesn't want to blow up endor's moon.
     
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  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012

    It also had a deleted scene of him preparing to blow it up even after Palpatine was dead and it was obvious that everything was going to Malachor in a handbasket.

    The novelization emphasised his cruel nature in that scene:


    The Emperor hissed. "Your fleet is lost — and your friends on the Endor Moon will not survive..." He pushed a comlink button on the arm of his throne and spoke into it with relish. "Commander Jerjerrod, should the Rebels manage to blow up the shield generator, you will turn this battle station onto the Endor Moon and destroy it."
    "Yes, Your Highness," came the voice over the receiver, "but we have several battalions stationed on"
    "You will destroy it!" The Emperor's whisper was more final than any scream.
    "Yes, Your Highness."



    Commander Jerjerrod sat, brooding, in the control room of the Death Star, watching all about him crumble. Half of his crew were dead, wounded, or run off - where they hoped to find sanctuary was unclear, if not insane. The rest wandered ineffectually, or railed at the enemy ships, or fired their guns at all sectors, or shouted orders, or focussed desperately on a single task, as if that would save them. Or, like Jerjerrod, simply brooded.
    He couldn't fathom what he'd done wrong. He'd been patient, he'd been loyal, he'd been clever. he'd been hard. He was the commander of the greatest battle station ever built. Or, at least, almost built. He hated this Rebel Alliance now, with a child's hate, untempered. He'd loved it once - it had been the small boy he could bully, the enraged baby animal he could torture. But the boy had grown up now; it knew how to fight back effectively. It had broken its bonds.
    Jerjerrod hated it now.
    Yet there seemed to be little he could do at this point. Except, of course, destroy Endor - he could do that. It was a small act, a token really - to incinerate something green and living, gratuitously, meanly, toward no end but that of wanton destruction. A small act, but deliciously satisfying.
    An aide ran up to him. "The Rebel fleet is closing, sir."
    "Concentrate all fire in that sector." he answered distractedly. A console on the far wall burst into flame.
    "The fighters in the superstructure are eluding our defense system, Commander. Shouldn't we-"
    "Flood sectors 304 and 138. That should slow them up." He arched his eyebrows at his aide.
    This made little sense to the aide, who had cause to wonder at the commander's grasp of the situation. "But sir ..."
    "What is the rotation factor to firing range on the Endor Moon?"
    The aide checked the compuscreen. "Point oh two to moon target, sir. Commander, the fleet-"
    "Accelerate rotation until moon is in range, and then fire on my mark."
    "Yes sir." The aide pulled a bank of switches. "Rotation accelerating. Point oh one to moon target. Sixty seconds to firing range. Sir, good-bye, sir." The aide saluted, put the firing switch in Jerjerrod's hand as another explosion shook the control room, and ran out of the door.
    Jerjerrod smiled calmly at the view-screen. Endor was starting to come out of the Death Star's eclipse. He fondled the detonation switch in his hand. Point oh oh five to moon target. Screams erupted in the next room.
    Thirty seconds to firing.
     
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  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    There is no doubting that Sheev was evil that's for sure.
     
  14. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003

    This was my line of thinking as well. A planned out defection-not unlike the "Antilles Extraction" episode of Rebels. Also, even though it's technically Legends (it could still fit into the current canon really), the book Death Star focuses on specific characters throughout the entire story that do just this.
     
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  15. Wylding

    Wylding Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2000
    I think this question shows just how far our education system has fallen. We have people who now think that everyone associated with an organization or movement all share the same monolithic personality/outlook. Sad day...
     
  16. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 29, 2016
    I
    I don't think they are, I just want other opinions.
     
  17. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 17, 2015
    Captain Needa struck me as a decent guy who was just doing his job and sacrificed his life to protect his men. Besides, we have no idea how many people were simply drafted.

    If you haven’t seen DAS BOOT, you should really check it out (the late ’90s director’s cut is my favorite version). It follows a German submarine crew and it’s pretty clear that these were just guys, not die-hard Nazis. They even make fun of their political officer and express nothing but contempt for him.
     
  18. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    You could make the point that we never did see a mutiny. Even the Remnant in TFA had Troopers unwilling to break rank. It is likely the Stromtroopers are so staunchly disciplined and have a clear hierarchy of command that nobody would see mutiny as worthwhile. Quite likely they are well paid and enjoy lavish expenses on some cozy planet before being called up to fight for the glory of the Empire. Everything I see in the franchise points to a well fed soldier. Totally loyal to the Empire and willing to work with just about everyone as long as they continue to brandish their weapon and enjoy the benefits of conquering the Galaxy.
     
  19. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    Several of the Rebels were former Imperials in fact. Wedge Antilles (in both old and now new canon), Tycho and other pilots, Biggs (technically), heck even Han Solo did a bit of time as an Academy boy even if he didn't jump directly out of Imperial service and into the Rebellion. Twilight Company has (I think) about a third of the Rebel troops being ex-Imperials, so mutiny definitely did happen we just never really got to see it - because it was totally irrelevant to the story of the films.
     
  20. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Kuro beat me to it with the reference to Captain Needa. IMO, he was a decent guy, but caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. To a lesser extent, you could make a similar argument for Piett. Maybe he wasn't a hero, but he definitely was no sociopath.
     
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  21. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 17, 2015
    Yeah, Piett never really struck me as being evil either. Just a guy who did his job, did it well and rose through the ranks.

    It would actually be interesting to see one of the spinoffs be a DAS BOOT type film.
     
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  22. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014
    are all imperials sociopaths?

    no.
     
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  23. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    Given the lawlessness of the Galaxy I would say no as well what with mercenaries and Crime Bosses controlling chunks of space.
     
  24. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013

    Personally I think stormtroopers were all clones in the OT, and pretty much like the Sardaukar from Dune, loyal to the death because they are made that way. Plus being cloned from Jango Fett they would be an army of ruthless thugs with abnormal personalities along with lifelong brainwashing. They also probably police their own officers by 66 any who dared to disobey Palps.

    Many of the officers probably either thought they were doing the right thing or scared to disobey orders or go against the imperial ideology.
     
  25. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    We saw many non stormtroopers stationed alongside the them. On Endor and on the corridors of the Star Destroyers. Not going to disagree with you over the make up of the Stormtroopers being clones only that all the other non combat junior grade officers were not ruthless thugs. Technicians & advisors more likely