Are Clone Wars and Rebels canon?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Jedi_Lantern, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    In addition to the arguments Circular_Logic provided from Trebor and Tado-Fett, the New Battlefronts guidebook states outright that it's Almec's opinion, and the man is extremely defensive and bitter toward the idea that the galaxy at large constantly associates Mandalore only with the warrior clans rather than the "more progressive" New Mandalorian faction. Canonically, Jango remains not only Mandalorian, but the former Mand'alor of the warrior clans prior to his death.
  2. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Lucasverse: fact
    EUverse: Almec's opinion
  3. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    What do you mean with Lucasverse?
  4. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    movies and TCW without the EU
    WatTamborWoo and Darth_Pevra like this.
  5. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    [IMG]
  6. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Filoni said that GL told him that Jango isn't a Mando.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  7. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    Thanks, Mia, for providing the additional info. You never fail to provide us with the necessary, relevant arguments needed whenever these debates come up.

    And I'm now Circular Logic, not Circular_Logic. :p

    I suggest we take a "wait and see" approach to the (potentially) new continuity. Given that we haven't gotten anything definite about the old EU (or all C-canon prior to the ST) getting overwritten or being completely discarded, I think it's still too early to assume that this is the case. It might well happen, and in fact, it might likely happen, but that doesn't mean it's really happened yet. Your comment about a friend saying the writers are forbidden to access Wookieepedia is interesting, but I don't think it means much, because I would imagine that Leland Chee's Holocron is more comprehensive and more accurate to what's considered canon than the Wook is. But that does not mean they will expunge everything that was ever written about the universe prior to the ST treatments and Rebels, and I expect many, if not most, elements of the "old" EU will survive the ST. But again, we'll all have to just wait and see, and try not to make too many assumptions and consider them definitive.

    At the very least, I am hoping they can keep the old universe intact, whether they choose to overwrite large swathes of the post-RotJ EU, other parts of the EU, or go with an alternate universe. One of Star Wars' greatest strengths is its adherence to a single, unified continuity, and I hope that Disney will respect that and do what they can to maintain as cohesive a continuity as possible, even if they end up rebooting parts of the EU.
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Oct 20, 2013
    Docgeo and Mia Mesharad like this.
  8. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    Apparently not, since Maul is now walking around with new spider legs.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  9. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@infinata 12 Sep
    @StarWarsJedinyt Hadn't heard that before. The heart of the canon is Episodes I-VI and TCW.
  10. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    TCW doesn't overwrite TPM, however. Maul still gets cut in half and falls down that reactor shaft. You just didn't see what happened afterwards.
  11. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    Now that I've got the S.I.T.H. trophy, I'll post a Sith-related theme to bring me from 3-stars to 4-stars.

    You cannot forget the scariest Ewok Sith of them all, @Darth Archimage! Credit to him for this awesome image.

    [IMG]
    Three is always better than one! Fear the Yub Nub!

    @newdawn12

    Alright. Let me entertain your idea of a new continuity, just this once.

    Ewok Sith Lord:

    "You think your EU is safe.
    It is an illusion, a comforting lie, meant to reassure you.
    Enjoy this final batch of novels.
    For I have come
    To commence my purge.

    So, shall we begin?"

    Hey, if Benedict Cumberbatch can voice a dragon, why can't he voice an Ewok speaking Basic?
  12. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Almec is expressing his point of view.
    Not every line in every film is a "canon fact."
    Contessa, Dark-Fox and Mia Mesharad like this.
  13. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4
    I think somebody else mentioned it too, but yeah, even if George said something to Filoni in private... well, to paraphrase Duke Ellington: it don't mean a thing if it ain't on that screen.

    And I don't say that as a sleight to George, either; to me, the fact that he had Almec (a proven liar) make that statement about Jango so subjectively but never pursued it with any sort of insistence actually does speak volumes about his position. Really, when he invented the concept of "Mandalorian Supercommandos" back in the 80's, maybe he already had the idea that there was some highly-trained race who the Republic utilized in some capacity before ANH, and that was all he needed from them. Perhaps it's an admission that the EU has done more with the Mandalorians than he would have, so he gave them plausible room to do it and confined his Mandalore to Concordia and Sundari... because yunno, he didn't even have to use the Death Watch name, but he did. It's at least a nod, and one shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

    Or maybe Filoni struggled for that compromise. We don't know what happened. Either way, GL does believe in growing the mythology. That's why he sold the franchise to let new voices come in and tell stories, instead of building a golden tomb and sealing himself inside with the film reels clutched to his chest for eternity. Just because he doesn't like some ideas presented in the EU (clone Emperors, Luke's marriage, etc.), and perhaps some events bothered him because they stepped on his own conception of it (which he's totally entitled to), it doesn't mean he's against the EU itself.

    But he was the only one with the right to those creative control issues. I hope the story group thing works out for the best, because it could be fairly smooth to manage democratically without George, the one guy who actually deserved to wield veto power. I think the lesson there is that, just because democracies are the way of the future, it doesn't mean all monarchies were failures.
    Last edited by PraenomenCognomen, Oct 20, 2013
    Circular Logic and Dark-Fox like this.
  14. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    http://lightsaberrattling.com/?p=26

    @stern_man More than 140 chars allow. Nutshell: story group is about ensuring future storytelling meshes better far more than in past
    — Pablo Hidalgo ( @Infinata) July 29, 2013

    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@infinata 12 Sep
    @StarWarsJedinyt Hadn't heard that before. The heart of the canon is Episodes I-VI and TCW.
  15. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    One of the few things I just won't accept as canon about TCW is the retcon that the Blockade Runner in ROTS wasn't the Tantive IV.

    Sorry, it was just too cool to see young Obi Wan, Yoda and Bail walk down the exact same corridor Vader would step into 19 years later to capture Bail's daughter.
    Slightly different ship scale or not (I don't remember the full reasoning behind the retcon).
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  16. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4

    I don't think TCW caused that retcon, did it? According to Wookieepedia, TCW actually included the Tantive IV in an episode. It was ROTS crew who seem to insist that it's different.
  17. Dark-Fox Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2008
    star 2
    I went through quite an interesting inner conflict when I first saw the Mandalorian season 2 episodes. As I was separated from discussions here and only watched the show once it hit Blu-Ray (I think by then Sky Movies had stopped showing the series on Saturday nights) my reactions were probably later than most of you all here. At first I was upset and appalled but I was also really intrigued by the new take on Mandalorians and the idea that Jango was once again surrounded in mystery.
    PraenomenCognomen likes this.
  18. JediLight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4
    This is my opinion:

    It's all fiction so none of it is real. :)

    Each viewer can determine if they want to include each segment into their own version of the "Star Wars" canon/story. For me, it's strictly PT and the OT only.

    I hold everything up to those standards.

    I'll give some illustrations:

    1) TCW doesn't make the cut. It's the simple things such as Anakin having an apprentice and having no closure for that character. (whether it was unintended is irrelevant) It's the notion that there are two Sith and 100 other darkside persons (Ventress, witches, Savage, etc). It's the idea to bring Maul back. It's having Anakin fight Dooku 10x in between AOTC and ROTS. It just don't flow right from AOTC into ROTS.

    2) Bane novels/Plagueis novel Over-the-top Sith powers (Bane). And retconning the entire TPM is not something I'm interested in doing (Plagueis)

    3) TFU/KOTR - Rebels started because of Vader's fallen apprentice sacrifice. How does this story really make any sense? KOTR has over-the-top powers again, although the story is incredible.

    4) Any novel post ROTJ. As Lucas said/paraphrasing "Luke wouldn't have had married and the Emperor wouldn't be cloned"

    Did I enjoy Bane/Plagueis novels? Definitely. Does TCW satisfy the SW content itch? Absolutely. But all of it ultimately it falls short as being part of my official SW story.

    The ST has to flow with PT/OT. And it's inevitable, the Sith will return and has me very nervous. That was Anakin's redemption point of the entire saga. I'm sure their are OT only fans that don't include PT as part of the story. It could be the same with me.
    leiamoody likes this.
  19. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    @stern_man More than 140 chars allow. Nutshell: story group is about ensuring future storytelling meshes better far more than in past
    — Pablo Hidalgo ( @Infinata) July 29, 2013

    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@infinata 12 Sep
    @StarWarsJedinyt Hadn't heard that before. The heart of the canon is Episodes I-VI and TCW.

    MaGnUs ‏@lordmagnusen 19 Oct
    @Infinata Hey, are you doing any work for "Rebels"?
    Expand
    Pablood Hidalghoul ‏@infinata 19 Oct
    @lordmagnusen Yeah, I'm lucky to be part of that team.
    Hide conversation

    SW Beyond the Films ‏@SWBeyondFilms 15 Sep
    So these Standalone Origin movies.... changes won't be limited to POST-ROTJ EU Folks.
    Expand
    Pablood Hidalghoul ‏@infinata 15 Sep
    @SWBeyondFilms turns out 'beyond films' will be an interesting spot to be in a future dominated BY films :)
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    This.
  21. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Exept for Death Watch who had their own madalore
  22. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    It's a damn good thing that it doesn't matter what Lucas thinks, isn't it?
    Darth_Pevra and Mia Mesharad like this.
  23. Darkskar95 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 1
  24. TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2013
    star 1
    I figure this would be a good place to explain my own personal opinion on cannon levels. I do something like this:

    G-Cannon - This is everything that has total involvement from George himself (i.e. The Movies)
    G2-Cannon - This is everything that has some level of involvement directly from George, but George isn't the main creator
    EU-Cannon - This is everything that has no involvement from George
    F-Cannon - This is everything I hate and believe needs to be erased from history!

    We will see how it goes, but I will probably need to add a D-Cannon for Disney.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    TCW would fall into G2 canon on that scale. Possibly also the Star Wars Holiday Special, and the Ewoks movies. Unless you're going with "anything I think should be F-canon, is F-canon" :D

    However- quite a few EU books had a small amount of direct involvement from Lucas- specifically- him approving something, or demanding that it be changed, before publishing.