ST Are fans taking Star Wars too seriously?

Before I start I want to state that I mean to take the following discussion as respectfully as possible. It's not my intention at all to antagonize and bash certain fans who may disagree with me and others.

Upon watching the movie, I had some reservations and criticisms, but one of my first thoughts was: "Man, the fans at 7SA are going to dig this!". I immediately logged in and started sharing my thoughts but mostly reading what people had to say. I was a bit shocked by a lot of people here that were as dissatisfied as I was back in 1999. I didn't expect that at all.

All criticisms are valid, of course, and this is a movie which is meant to be appreciated subjectively. Diversity of opinion is a good thing.

Still, one thing that came across to me upon reading tons of negative reviews, were the following:

1. "Preconceptions!". There's a huge denial from some who just can't grasp or accept the fact that certain storylines didn't go as they thought they would, or that certain characters didn't do what they expected of them.

2. "There was way too much dumb humor". This was a bit baffling to me, since I think this movie had a very well set tone, were humor was important, not a distraction. Do you remember how funny ANH is?

3. "Han Solo should've died in a blaze of glory, not betrayed by his son". This one I can sympathize with, but I think it gives the perfect depth to the villain and makes the new characters' motivation and drive more intense. I believe it worked, besides I'm not into making ficticious heroes into gods. This is about drama and character development, not about putting people on a pedestal because of infatuation.

4. "The state of the galaxy wasn't explained". Was it really that explained back in 1977 when there were no other SW movies out there? Did that hurt the movie?. The fact that we know the Knights of Ren killed the new Jedi Order and is now leading the Remnants of the Empire through the Dark Side of the Force, while there's a Resistance that works with the support of the Official Republic, is fine by me. I'd rather have it implied than have exposition dialogue and scenes about politics. Remember the last time we had senate meetings, trade disputes, chancellors overthrown, etc? That didn't exactly work either.

Those were the ones that stood out to me. Now, the question I ask myself is: Are fans taking Star Wars too seriously? Do we really need what I stated above to have a heartfelt adventure story set in a galaxy far, far away?

Discuss!

 

How so?

In ANH I think it was very ably throughout the entire movie. That is a massive part of the fabric of the film. That really is the major role of Leia in the movie as she introduces us to Vader and Tarkin, the Death Star Senate is dissolved scene, Obi-Wan and Luke, the actions of the Empire and Stormtroopers, Han the smuggler, 3PO telling us all sorts of information. Then of course the cut Luke and Biggs scene.

I have to say it's all over the movie.

TFA doesn't go to quite the same lengths as ANH does. That isn't the part of George's stories that they were pulling from.

Could it have been done better in TFA? Sure.

Was it done just well enough?

Probably but as ever we are talking about the difference between the vast regular audience and their experience and we the fan audience who are going to watch this over and over and pull information from all the other sources. The Visual Guide alone gives the basic backstory nevermind the details that I would assume are in the novel.

 

Yes

 

Yes

 

Yep

 

1) This is why the PT got a bad rap. Say what you want about dialog and CGI, but at the end of the day, people had their own opinions of how a young Vader will be and what we got in the PT contridicted that so therefore people whined and complained. The PT was good, but people did not like the change in tone.

2) All SW films have dumb humor

3) I am glad he is gone now, lets let the OT be and move on to new places and characters.

4) The only reason why some people didnt like the politics of the PT cause it wasnt in the OT and SW fans sre too close minded to accept change. This is why TFA is so liked, cause it is juet a copy and paste of ANH which is just sad. Also, you have to understand, GL added politics in the PT to show how there was a working democracy unlike the Empire of the OT. Again, this was too much for SW fans to comprehend so they whined and complained. I was 100% fine with the PT politics caused it was a contrast to the dictator/empire of the OT. I am sorry that was too much to understand but I understood it and respect how GL atleast attempted to be creative and give us a new/different perspective of the galaxy and how it once was prior to the darktimes unlike JJ who just did a EP4 reboot.

 

Of course.

 

I know ANH had more exposition about this in particular, not that much, but yes it had more. But at the same time, it didn't have any other material to back it up, to create context. TFA is coming out after 6 movies and endless Star Wars related stuff. The broad picture it painted throughout the movie was enough IMO.

 

Of course. Have you seen the Mark Hamill thread in the last few years?

 

Yep, and then some.

 

no , I think it's pretty balanced .

obviously the film avoids some of the mistakes of the prequels , but at the same time the fans are smart enough to recognise that that isn't enough , and analyse it on it's own merits - yes some aspects are very good , pace , humor , certain performances etc. but it's also very derivative and lacking in new ideas and clarity .

I still don't understand what the status is of the FO , the Republic and the Reisistance , it does seem rather muddled , and that should've been clarified , it wouldn't need senate hearings (like in the PT) , it was clear in ANH .

 

(SOME) Fans will never be happy, simple as that,...

 

I would say far more in that it was given a clear and concise way and with less distraction. Hux actually said a lot but what with the parade ground and Starkiller firing you could forgive people for not paying attention to him. Not quite the same as a bunch of people sitting around a table in a quiet room.

I would add to that TFA also has six movies before it that give us the overall context that we can pull from. We can presume that the New Republic Senate is based on the Republic Senate seen in the PT.

I wonder how many people thought that Coruscant was destroyed?

It really wouldn't have taken that much to lay things out in a simple and clearer fashion in some places.

Now realistically this is a minor complaint and really will have no effect on fans who already have it sorted out or will soon enough.

 

Definitively.
It was a foregone conclusion this movie and even the concept of a sequel trilogy will split a fandom as diverse as Starwars again. Fortunately, all of this are just usual internet drama so I don't take them seriously. Do some of them have legitimate grievances over the movie? of course but for now, it sounds like a shouting contest.

 

I think it comes down to the tone set by the previous films and other works. I haven't read any of the expanded literature so a lot of that will be lost on me. I am a fan of the movies though, having grown up with the OT.

To me overall the movie is fantastic but there were some things that didn't follow the mechanics as set out in the previous films (won't discuss this here there is another thread dedicated to that topic), which was the only thing I feel they could have done better.

I guess the studio made it with the intention of having enough detail to keep old fans happy while still easy enough to follow for people who are new to the films.

 

I find the opposite. With the overwhelming amount of positive views this movie is getting, I think both fans, critics and the general public alike just don’t take the art of silver screen very seriously nowadays. The same thing happened to Avengers and Jurassic World. As long as people are treated with the fanservice they expect, find the characters funny and are awed by the special effects and the badass moments, it seems to be enough to give any movie an astronomically high rating.

I mean, TFA is already ranking higher than EBS and ANH in rotten tomatoes. Do you really think that’s fair assessment for a movie that is basically a remake with little originality? This ranting needs to drop a bit, and in order to do that, more negative reviews are needed to balance it out.

 

I totally agree that people are disappointed because their own assumptions/preconceptions about the progression of the storyline weren't met. Ultimately that is what points 3 and 4 are about too. My disappointment came from the obvious replication of ANH which I guess is still because I assumed that the storyline would be different/move forward rather than repeating almost exactly the plot from 40 years ago!

Does that mean people are taking it too seriously - no! As you said, healthy debate is exactly what fans should be having...

 

We got enough in ANH to understand the stakes of the story. There was an evil Empire in control and our heroes were rebels fighting against it.

In TFA which side is in control? Is the First Order rebelling against a strong Republic, or is the Republic weak? The viewer has no idea.

 

I think politics is plenty present in this SW movie. And by politics i mean "2015 this galaxy" moral/political/global themes.
The situation seems clear to me: A New Republic somewhere a new Evil Empire and a Resiststance that permits the good guys to have "boots on the ground" and fight without officially being involved in the war.
And Kylo Ren is the Jhiadi John of the saga revolting against his family and societal values seeking for extremes and unbelivable values but still uncertain if the rebellious path he has choosen is the right one but sure that "it's to late".

 

This would have much more universal praise if it didn't have the title "Star Wars" in its name. TFA was a really ****ing good film, but some have different ideas of what they want in a new Star Wars. It's impossible to please every fan of a franchise as big as this.

IMO, there's just as many flaws in A New Hope as there are in The Force Awakens, if not more, and ANH is in my top 2 (or was, TFA may have taken its place).

 

Yes, I get that, and believe it to be a minor fault. My point is that these types of issues don't necessarily kill the movie. Some fans are perplexed and deeply dissatisfied because of details such as this. The focus was on characters, their adventure and journey, the other stuff was backstory.

 

Yes some of the fans take things too seriously. That doesn't mean the plot wasn't weak, or that the film wouldn't have benefited from a few more minutes of exposition.

 

I've found the majority of folks who are complaining ad nauseam fit into two categories:

(1) EU/OT Fans who can't get over the fact that their head cannon was not taken into account by JJ and Larry; and
(2) PT Fans who are trying their mightiest to take out their frustrations of being fans of the least well-received movies on folks who like the new movie in an attempt to shield the PT from any further criticism.

TFA is not perfect by a long shot, but it is really, really good.

 

I thought it was just fine. Did it have echos of ANH? Of course! Was it a 'safe' outing? Designed to 'win back' older fans and introduce the Universe to new fans? Yes and yes. Was it a lot of fun? Oh hell yes!

TFA isn't the bottled lightning that was the first S tar Wars, and anyone expecting anything different is bound to be dissapointed, an invaribly will moan about it.

PS, I actually enjoyed the PT, and was there when ANH was just 'Star Wars'. I think TFA is a worthy, fun filled new start to the series, and will be dropping some more coin on theatrial viewings - something I haven't done in years.

 

1999 wants its thread back