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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Are fans taking Star Wars too seriously?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Ganger, Dec 21, 2015.

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  1. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    This "too seriously" thing can go both or multiple ways. I take it seriously in that I don't want people spoiling it and I want to like it and I consider it important to me and I can't stand people just purposely looking for stuff that's wrong with it. I don't take it seriously in that I can't accept something new, or expect it to be more like newer movie franchises that they've gotten more use to watching than Star Wars, or whatever reason people have when they don't like it. I don't take it seriously in the way of thinking it is perfect and without criticism, but I don't linger on that and try to avoid topics about that. I do take it seriously in that I hate reading non-fans use labels like "geeks" or "nerds" or "I'd rather watch paint dry" while knowing they basically get excited in similar ways about other stuff like football games or Black Friday sales. I do take it seriously in that I visit a STAR WARS messageboard and talk about the movie.
    Someone made a comment that the politics were reminiscent of World War II with the UK (Republic), French Resistance (Resistance) and the First Order (guess who). It's something to consider, and think about when or after watching the movie, and that's a good thing to do. It shouldn't always be perfectly spelled out for us. Either way, it didn't seem confusing.
     
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  2. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 26, 2009
    Of course.

    And there's nothing wrong with that.
     
  3. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2002
    Aren't all positive reviews going to sound alike for any film? It's quantity of positive reviews that's the BIG BIG difference here.
     
  4. Iamnoone

    Iamnoone Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 23, 2015
    Indeed, I doubt this is leaving the 90's on RT
     
  5. Ganger

    Ganger Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    I've seen more stubbornness from burned fans than defenders. It's not like when the prequels came out and the apologetics were all over the place trying to explain why the balcony scene in ROTS is a beautiful portrayal of romance.

    The initial purpose of this thread was to discuss if maybe, just maybe, some fans step too easily into denial when something they hold so precious does something unexpected.

    I mean, Leia's joke about the Death Star (38 years have passed) is not out of character. And if Chewie and Leia didn't have an exchange following Han's death, is it "THE WORST THING TO HAPPEN IN A SW MOVIE"?

    Of course not, but it goes to show that some fans just take it a bit too seriously.
     
  6. Teamx

    Teamx Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 17, 2015
    I feel the same way to a great extent, my "criticism" is bases on elements of the movie I didn't like, it's not to say I hated the entire damn thing - for from it.

    People that needlessly bash the film are just trolling imo, yet I also think to just blindly accept everything "coz it's Star Wars" is kind of counter productive as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with honest opinions, even if they're not all overly positive.
     
    TheOneX_Eleazar likes this.
  7. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2012
    I accept them all "because it's Star Wars" to a point. I can't just outright bash any of the movies because there are so many aspects and creative elements involved like the music or the tone or the designs or whatever. Even if I criticize some story elements or whatever, it's more of an observation while trying to find a good, positive excuse for it being the way it was.
     
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  8. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2002
    It's a hard mix. It's not a perfect film, but to a lot of us, it is a *great* Star Wars film. It's hard to judge Star Wars, as a fan, by removing it from the GFFA and treating it with usual film criticism. It also seems unfair to hear from those who ignore similar or identical problems with the previous six and then go insane over really minor stuff being unexplained.
     
  9. Wolfgang187

    Wolfgang187 Jedi Master star 2

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    Apr 8, 2002

    Dude, 2 classic characters not interacting after the death of Han Solo is the dumbest thing I've personally seen in star wars. To me its dumber than all the collective lines of Jar Jar Binks. It YANKED me out of the film.
     
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  10. Jedi Dragon D

    Jedi Dragon D Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 24, 2013
    NO. Star Wars have GREATEST story. Non-Star Wars fans are too blind to not see it.

    My bad, looks like I misunderstood the thread.
     
  11. Lord Ugnaught

    Lord Ugnaught Jedi Knight

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    Apr 16, 2015

    It wasn't anything special. There were cool parts in it (Luke falling for a trap and then jumping out, the big reveal, Vader using the force) but overall yeah it wasn't anything special.
     
  12. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

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    Sep 19, 2002
    Of course they are, that is what fans do!
     
  13. Darth Doop

    Darth Doop Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 24, 2014
    Yes, and I will until the day I die.
     
  14. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 28, 2015
    Double edged sword

    Is there anything wrong with exploring the lore, meeting new characters and studying it's aspects? Hell no there isn't

    Is there something wrong with threatening to kill somebody over a different opinion? Yes. No sugar coating.
     
  15. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    But the overall reception has been overwhelmingly positive, much more so than I personally expected. I thought it would be mostly positive, but I did not expect a 95% RT rating, for example.
     
  16. ucdex

    ucdex Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2015
    Possibly? Maybe? Yes? But are sports fans any different? Why is it acceptable for fans of certain other things but not for star wars fans? Besides the Fandom is diverse. We are not monolithic. Some fans take it more seriously than others.
     
  17. Ganger

    Ganger Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    Good point. It's just that sometimes you wonder if some hardcore fans are actually able to enjoy anything besides the preconceived notions on their heads. Like surprise and change is a bad thing.
     
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  18. Gamma626

    Gamma626 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 6, 2014
    It's funny that you bring up preconceptions, since that is EXACTLY what's wrong with your opinion on the film. You have the preconception that Han's death deserves grandiose shots of everyone holding each other and crying. Instead the reality of the scene is this:

    Chewbacca is escorting Finn to make sure he survives, and is ok. Chewie didn't just lose his best friend, he lost his best friend right in front of him. He doesn't go him Leia because Chewbacca has his own feelings to deal with. He's focused on keeping Finn alive before he becomes a grieving ball of fur. It's why he leaves with Rey to find Luke. Chewie, with everything we know about him, isn't one to sit around and mope. He's a wookie of action. He's not going to rest until Kylo pays for what he's done. Then he can grieve with Leia.

    Not everyone grieves the same way. Leia is heartbroken, and is comforted by the only person around that knows what actually happened. Chewie is grieving in his way, while Rey comforts Leia. You're puttin these characters into preconceived places that you think they belong in, when their actions show that's just not who they are. Characters are organic, living things to a writer. They aren't going to write "Chewie and Leia cry a bunch" because you want it to be so. They're going to be accurate to the films before them.

    Did Chewie stand around and cry with Leia when Han was taken? No. The first thing he did was book it out of there to try and hunt him down. Does Chewie stand around and cry when Han dies? No, he rescues his friend, paying him back for earlier in the film, then books it out of there to find Luke and get help. That's who Chewbacca is. He's not a moarner. He's a doer.
     
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  19. Wolfgang187

    Wolfgang187 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2002
    At no point did I say or suggest I NEEDED a grandiose shot of anyone. A 5 second glance between them acknowledging they both understand the other is there. A hug is not needed, mourning is not needed. Some sort of acknowledgement is tho. If youre going to stay true to those characters, it demands it. 5 second glances are VERY VERY far from grandiose, yes?

    When Han was frozen, did Chewie ignore Leia or did he put his arm around her? Well, now Hans totally dead. They'd do more than walk right past each other as if they had never met. This is just a staggering oversight by JJ.
     
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  20. DarthKreVass

    DarthKreVass Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Yes, people/fans take it waaaaaay to seriously, but everyone is entitled to their own view.
     
  21. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 28, 2011
    I generally agree with a lot of this post, but disagree with the bullet point I highlighted (I actually like Kylo Ren). Also, on John Williams, I wasn't so much disappointed as much as I hardly noticed the score; nothing really jumped out at me as in all previous films, including the prequels. I'll likely be seeing the film again in a day or so with a relative while on vacation, so I'll try to pay attention to it more.

    I have been very harsh on the film, rating it a 5 of 10. I feel confident in my opinion of the film coming naturally and not simply from "I wasn't going to be satisfied with anything." But I am only mildly surprised at the overwhelmingly positive response to the film. After all, I recall Phantom getting an overwhelmingly positive response early on. It waned substantially within time after the film was released. I suspect that will happen to a lesser extent with this film, but it will still enjoy a spot as a top-half-of-the-series film.

    What has not surprised me is basically becoming a pariah because I have dared to not like the film. I've had numerous friends berate me for not liking the film and another passive-aggressively post to his Facebook timeline, "I need a list of all of everyone I know who didn't like the new Star Wars so I can unfriend them now," who subsequently unfriended me when I had earlier posted on Facebook that I was very disappointed in the film. A close friend from college said he simply wouldn't discuss the film with me because he thinks I have such an insane opinion; I was, "Why the hell not? We've argued about lots of other stuff over the last 7 years."

    Rather than me telling people they'll come around to my way of thinking, I've been asked why, I've laid out my reasons, and I've been inundated with people trying to dump loads of rationalizations on me for why I am wrong and how I am just a bitter snot of a person who would never be happy with anything. It's quite interesting to see the vitriol. On the flip side, I've found a small amount of friends generally agree it was sub-par, though I have been the only one whose gone to the length of, "I disliked it," whereas the others say, "It was weak, but I still liked it." Still, our complaints are generally the same. I think I just haven't spotted the film any brownie points or given it a break for certain things whereas others have. *shrug*

    Point all being, I think there really is an element of when someone criticizes this film that those who liked it/loved it (and there are obviously a massive amount) need to validate their liking it by piling on those who didn't. Based just on some casual observation, I think there is a higher incidence (though not terribly much) of dislike amongst those who I know are also EU fans compared to those who I know are solely mainline films fans.
    I felt the humor in this film was either forced or just right, depending on the character/actor/actress. I thought Poe's humor was good, as was Finn's. Finn's humor fit his character well. Conversely, I felt Han's humor was very forced, totally unlike his dry wit in the OT. Maybe the humor in the new trilogy will step away from the dry humor of the OT and become more overt.

    See, this is exactly what I was talking about above. Does the street not go both ways? Clearly, most people like/love this film. But can't those who like/love the film also be those who "demand that their opinion is the only one"? Because I've certainly seen that so far in-person with people I know, on social media, on here, in the comments section of articles... Anyone who has a negative opinion of the film is obviously crazy, right? Now, I do absolutely think opinion for this film will wane over time, but only a bit (certainly not anything like what we saw with Phantom in the time since it was released). But that is what I believe to be an objective observation and belief that, with anything highly anticipated, people come down from a high as time passes.... to varying degrees.

    I desperately want to like this film. I also desperately tried to set my expectations low to avoid a repeat of the way I feel about the prequels. Maybe that was the wrong strategy. Those I know who were excited as all heck about the film overwhelmingly loved it. But for me when I saw the first full trailer and saw so much from Episode IV in it, my heart sank. Sitting through the movie on Sunday, I saw what I felt was Episode IV v. 2.0. I didn't expect that (before the trailer). I really felt there would be a brand new story that would advance the overall breadth and depth of the Star Wars universe, especially since Disney made the clear decision to eliminate all of the EU to pave the way for their own story. It did not. And that was very, very disappointing for me. I love the EU and wanted to see it survive, but as a business person I understand why the decision was made. If Disney was going to destroy the existing EU, wouldn't it be natural to expect they would use that clean-slate opportunity to do something brand new? I can somewhat see the logic a few friends have forwarded that Disney *needed* to reboot/reset the universe for a younger generation that didn't grow up on the original trilogy. I do think there are a lot of younger fans of the prequels, TCW, and Rebels who actually have little knowledge/understanding of the OT. But that doesn't mean I agree with that charted course at all, if it is true. It seems like a big waste to me of a blank canvas that could've been used to explore brand-new territory and push the boundaries more, as Star Wars has long done.

    I am in a small minority, I get it. I'm not going to tell people they're wrong to like this film, but I will stand strongly by my opinion that it is a weak film that was very, very disappointing for me after such a long wait. I am very concerned about the future of the series, too, as I am concerned that it will get Marvel-ized, and films that wildly-vary in quality and strength will be churned out each year, building toward some ideal goal of an ultimate capstone film at the end... but wondering if we'll ever actually get there.

    I am trying to keep my head up for Rogue One, which should cover something I've been banging my fist on the table for years to see (ground troops/special ops troops) in the films, but being the focus rather than the backdrop. We'll see how it goes.
     
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  22. TheYankee

    TheYankee Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 2006
    No, that isn't "why the PT got a bad rap." There's an enormous list of reasons why the PT got a bad rap. It wasn't just because people had "preconceptions."
     
  23. WrathofRunia

    WrathofRunia Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2014
    I think a lot of people take a lot of things too seriously. In-depth discussion can be fun, but people get carried away.

    I definitely agree with your first point. People concoct too many expectations going into the movie.

    The state of space politics doesn't interest me either. I don't think it carries much interest among a casual, general audience either. Small doses are fine when implemented in an engaging manner, but leave the rest to books where it's better suited.

    I also get the impression some feel a need to analyze things to death. It's just a movie. A simple, fun adventure is enough for me. I loved Mad Max: Fury Road.
     
  24. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    TFA: I saw. I hated. I vented. I'm done. :p

    Yeah, folks are taking it seriously, but that's what fans do (myself included.) ;) If we didn't love the universe we wouldn't be losing our minds.
     
  25. blaisedinsd

    blaisedinsd Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I personally feel that people who hold up TESB and ANH as the 2 best films and bash on ROTJ and the PT are the ones that take Starwars too seriously. The complaint often heard is that they did too much too sell toys and appeal to kids after 1980. Well I saw these movies as a kid and I am not going to complain about Ewoks being too cute of Jar Jar being too goofy, to me that is part of Starwars.

    I am mixed on TFA and honestly have to give it an incomplete until I see how things progress but currently would rank it as my 7th favorite film of the series. I think I am familiar and comfortable with Lucas Starwars and am having trouble with this film feeling like it doesn't fit with the others, it feels like an imitation they paid George 4 billion dollars to be able to make to me. Emotionally it feels like this movie is trying to be Starwars. I am not a big EU/ Starwars Legends fan at all either but this film I see as trying to appeal to the people who do take Starwars too seriously as I defined in first paragraph and they did make an entertaining film that avoids those things for the most part and only trys to sell cool toys, not cute toys.
     
  26. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Unless I am misinterpreting what you said, I think that this film was made for a far broader and more general audience, NOT the more big EU/Legends fans or fans of alternative media (I hesitate to call some things EU/Legends, like some games they lack a story or aren't plot-driven). If I am trying to be objective and be the business person I am, I think that's probably a very good decision. As a fan, I don't like that, but objectively it's probably the best way to approach this. Star Wars is absolutely a mass-market franchise in the theaters; it is not mass-market in any other form of media.... that's not to say it doesn't have a large following, but even TCW/Rebels will, predictably, not have nearly as large of a following as the movies. Therefore, the movies should be designed to appeal to the most people possible, generate a lot of buzz, and generate, more than anything... lots of money.

    It's things like books, video games, merchandise, and other items/things that will appeal to the hardcore fans.
     
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