Are Jedi killed, imprisoned or swayed to the dark side by the Empire?..or maybe..it depends?

Are Jedi killed, imprisoned or swayed to the dark side by the Empire?..or maybe..it depends?

From Wikipedia:

The Last of the Jedi: A Tangled Web

Since Palpatine's takeover, he believes his power is absolute. He controls everything, including the senate. He is the leader of the evil Sith.

And now, for some unexplainable reason, he wishes to control Ferus. But Ferus does not want to help him, until Palpatine threatens those people closest to his heart.


From The Force.net:

Coruscant Nights III: Patterns of Force
by Michael Reaves

Throughout the galaxy, a captured Jedi is a dead Jedi, even in Coruscant's most foul subterranean slums, where Jedi Knight Jax Pavan champions the causes of the oppressed with the help of hard-nosed reporter Den Dhur and the wisecracking droid I-5YQ.


I know that there is the reference that he wanted to control Ferus for some unexplainable reason - but what makes one Jedi good to be swayed to the dark side and another not? Thank you.

 

Palpatine seems to go with this idea...

He enjoys having a small cadre of Darksiders in his service but only to a fraction of the size of the Jedi Order. Furthermore, the majority of these Dark Siders are of only a fraction of Emperor Palpatine's power. The only Dark Jedi Masters in his service are Lord Shadowspawn (a total cripple), Jorus C'boath (a total nutbar), and Jerec whom its implied is only a hair's breadth away from being executed when Palpatine dies.

The next most powerful of Palpatine's Dark Siders is Tremayne and he's more of a lackey to Vader than Palpatine.

Apparently, Palpatine's Dark Siders are just an ego trip for him.

So, Powerful Jedi Masters and Noble Jedi are just killed outright. Corruptible Mid-Level or Weak Jedi and Force Users of a style that Palpatine hasn't studied yet are often allowed to live.

 

The same reason why turning Anakin is far more worth his time then other Jedi. However honestly, it is to make the story important. It really doesn't make much sense.

 

I think it makes a certain amount of sense.

At least as much as the Sith do.

Palpatine is a bigot. Non-Force Types are beneath his notice. Simultaneously, he doesn't want anyone who can overthrow him. I always was of the idea that Palpatine was grooming Jerec to challenge Darth Vader for the role of Sith Master. Palpatine didn't expect him to win but Palpatine constantly was throwing challenges at Vader to make him stronger (Baron Tagge, Xizor, Ferus Olen, and others).

 

i think it just depends on the author and story.

obviously for the kids books, ferus is going to be captured in hopes of turning him. you get my point

 

I see your point, but I always had a problem with him trying to "get rid of Vader". Before Luke it made no sense. He had Vader under his control. All these stories of SAs are nice to read, but make little sense. If we learn anything from the prequels it is that Palpatine almost has an unhealthy belief in Anakin.

 

Well, Dark Lord's take was that Palpatine was profoundly brassed off at Vader's crippled form.

And let's take note he seemed to believe in Dooku too.

 

Well considering he was already talking up Anakin even with Dooku already on his side, I got to question his faith in him. And yes I can take him having a problem with crippled Vader, if crippled Vader wasn't still the baddest man in the universe.

 

Well, my point is, that's less a sign of faith in Anakin than Palpatine is a treacherous snake with no loyalty to his apprentice.

Especially given Palpatine encouraged Luke to kill Vader.

 

The Luke situation was different. He was already losing Vader, he knew that. That is why I said up to the point of Luke. But I do see your point.

 

I see your point, but I always had a problem with him trying to "get rid of Vader".[/quote]

I don't think he was actually trying to get rid of Vader, per se. The Sith believe that conflict causes the cream to rise to the top. If Vader is as good as Palpatine thinks he is, than he will be able to defeat the challenges he keeps throwing at him, and he will be better and tougher for having figured out how to best them. If Palpatine is wrong, and one of Palpy's pets ends up getting the better of Vader, then that works, too, because now he has a stronger apprentice.

 

Part of whether Palpatine and the Empire decide to just kill or try to convert a Jedi depends on plot device, of course. I alos think it depends on the Jedi involved, and whether Palpatine is in the mood to be sadistic and break someone's spirit, or whether Vader is obsessed with something at the moment. For instance, most Imperial officers would probably just try to kill the Jedi. If a Jedi had darkside leanings, or at least wasn't quite such a goody-two-shoes that they would be open to dark-side prodding, Palpatine might keep them around as a potential servant and/or for his own entertainment. Vader would probably just kill any Jedi he encounters.

Palpatine throwing challenges at Vader is part of the Rule of Two, that backstabbing and treachery will either kill the Sith or rather, if they survive, the Sith will just keep on getting stronger and stronger, and... it actually sorta works, in a survival of the fittest kind of way, as it led from Bane to Palpatine, it just took a few centuries. And as someone else said, if Vader survives, then he's now stronger, and more full of hate. If Vader dies, then the other guy was stronger and Palpatine now has that new guy as his new apprentice. Although with Dooku, Palpatine probably mainly needed a pawn to act as the public leader of the Conefederacy, while he was waiting for Anakin Skwalker to mature enough to really fall. Palpatine had quite a few Force-sensitive agents- his Hands, I think some Inquisitors were Force-sensitive, Vader of course, but most weren't really powerful enough or ambitious enough. And Palpatine probably liked watching some power plays too. Like there was that (very good) comic where Vader fought what seemed to be a ressurected Darth Maul, and when Vader wins... the darksiders who brought Maul back are instantly killed. Palpatine says he just arrived in time to help Vader... but its obvious that Palpatine was probably just waiting to see who would win between Vader and Maul, and that the winner would be his new second in command. But the general policy seemed to be shoot Jedi on sight. Funny enough, in Legacy, I think its implied that the new Sith criticize Palpatine for allowing some converted/fallen Jedi to live, and that they won't be making that mistake. Though the new Sith have lots and lots of Sith, so no real need to convert any Jedi (except for Cade, but that's only because of his unique healing power). And it might have some merit, considering Palpatine was killed (the first time) by Anakin Skywalker.

 

I think he knew that Anakin 1. Was VERY VERY Powerful and 2. Was not entirely stable.

If the situation was different and Anakin turned out to be a well adjusted Jedi, he probably would have stuck with Dooku and made sure Order 66 dusted Anakin.

I think Palpatine's other thing was that total destruction of the Jedi included turning their "Chosen One" to the Dark Side. That's just icing on the cake. If Anakin had kept his limbs, embraced the dark side fully, and eventually offed his Master...I think Palpatine would have accepted that. A full flesh Dark Sided Vader that realized his full potential would have virtually guaranteed Sith Domination of the Galaxy for a long time.

Instead, he got a half butchered and conflicted Vader. Blah. Not as cool. He better toughen him up yet or in the process find a more powerful apprentice.

 

Palpatine is right that Vader, even in his reduced state is THAT powerful.

But he's also quite serious that he'd have taken Dooku if Dooku had killed him.

and would take the SA if he could kill Vader.

Luke the same.

Palpatine is aware, though, that Anakin at the end of the Clone Wars is more powerful than Dooku and Dooku was nearly as strong as Mace.

 

Yeah, so if Anakin is that powerful when he's just in his um... late teens (?, I forget how old Anakin was by Episode III), Anakin will probably just keep on getting stronger as he trains more. It also helped that Palpatine had a very easy way to manipulate Anakin, that angle being Padme, whereas with Dooku there wasn't any such convenient hostage or something.

Although I'm not entirely sure why Palpatine isn't worried that people will team up and kill him, but I guess Palpatine knew he was still more powerful than most people, or that he probably would've planned for that event. Or that even if Palpatine died, then the remaining darksiders would turn on each other, and that would still eventually lead to a stronger Sith emerging.

Although yeah, while Vader wasn't what Palpatine wanted originally, Vader was still very useful. Although Palpatine underestimated just how much of Anakin remained, but otherwise, its not like anybody expected that Anakin's child(ren) had survived in secret all these years.

 

I disagree. Palpatine was brassed off at Vader's lack of confidence and mopeyness. As far as Vader being "crippled" went, Palpatine was convinced Vader could reacquire all that he'd lost through strength of will.

"Sith power resided not in the flesh but in the will .... Vader's real weaknesses were psychological rather than physical ... Sidious understood he would need to do everything in his power to shake Vader out of his despair, and reawaken the incredible power within him. Even at Sidious' own peril..."

Though, twenty years later, when he still hadn't... I guess he thought it was time to swap him out for Luke.

 

Yeah, except the Invisible Hand fight wasn't a pure Sith on proto-Sith duel - and in the novel Palpatine even has to intervene when Anakin loses his focus. (i.e. Dooku was going to win against both Anakin and Obi-Wan, while Anakin, as later demonstrated, can't even take Obi-Wan)

 

What version of the ROTS novel did you read?

Palpatine's intervention was less helping Anakin to win-which he was gonna do anyways, given that Dooku considered himself to be in potentially serious trouble to begin with when he registered that he'd been tricked-and more encouraging Anakin to use the Dark Side to defeat him.

 

Nah, look at Dooku's POV just before Palpatine steps in and Anakin's POV before he realizes he can win in the next chapter. Dooku's relaxing and back in control, Anakin's panicking. Then Palpatine's intervention helps Anakin tap into the dark Side.

Anakin then wipes the floor with Dooku - but he wouldn't have been able to do it if Palpatine wasn't there.

Even in the movie, Anakin is out of the fight and dazed for ten seconds while Dooku is dealing with Obi-Wan. In a one-on-one duel where Dooku was actually trying to kill him that would have been fatal.

Palpatine pretty much structured the fight so that Dooku was going down in his instructions to Dooku. Despite that, Dooku still nearly pulls it off.

Luke's win over Vader in ROTJ is a lot less ambiguous.

 

As for teaming up, that was Darth Bane's fear.

Palpatine believes strongly that Jedi teaming up actually dont' do any better than the best guy they have.

In other words.

He can kill 20 regular Jedi instantly with a force lightning storm (See Empire: Betrayal) and only have to face Mace and maybe Obi Wan now.

 

I'd agree about the Luke vs. Vader fight in ROTJ, but I simply don't get where you're getting the impression that it was solely Palpatine's urging of using the Dark Side that allowed Anakin to win. Dooku himself realizes that he's in serious trouble when he can't penetrate Kenobi's defenses, and that Anakin's offense is too strong for himself to directly deflect-this is stated. He barely avoids getting run through by Anakin within seconds of Anakin and Obi-Wan dropping their deceptive swordfighting, gets kicked around repeatedly by Anakin, gets his own sabre bashed into his shoulder...I don't see Anakin as being on the ropes at all against Dooku.

 

As I recall the scene, Dooku is struggling against Anakin but it's not over until Anakin decides to use the Dark Side.

At which point, Dooku is history.

 

Except Dooku actually lands more hits/kicks/chairs on the two of them than vice versa, and seriously manhandles Obi-Wan. I did a short analysis with quotes here a long time back. Off-topic so I won't regurgitate further. But just because Dooku's struggling from his POV doesn't mean Anakin's not also struggling from his POV (which we also see, but only briefly), and I'd lay odds Kenobi's struggling too even if Stover doesn't give us his version

By the time Sidious intervenes, Dooku's figured out what makes Anakin tick and is back in control of the situation.

 

Back to the original question,i think its about time.After Order 66 acoording to Wook there were about 200 jedi survivors,so Palps decide to bring ome Inquisitors,Shadow Guards on his side so they could hunt the jedi while he and Vader are busy doing other things,hovewer it is rare to see Inquisitors and other dark jedi hunting them because Vader sells.
If the captured jedi could be turned well,why not?

 

Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder what happens to Ashoka.

I like to think that Palpatine -- not totally went against, but took exceptions to the rule of two, wasn't so rigid with it. That makes sense I guess - with two main Sith Lords always being in existance.