PT Are Sith inherently evil?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Emperor Ferus, Jun 17, 2017.

Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat
  1. Emperor Ferus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2016
    star 4
    There's probably a thread somewhere for this topic, and I've seen it discussed on other threads with solid arguments for both sides. I thought it should have its own place to be discussed.

    Do you believe that Sith are born evil, or that it's inevitable that they become evil?

    I think that not all Sith begin with malicious intentions, but the dark side inevitably blinds them from the greater good and causes them to think only about themselves .
    Anakin.Skywalker likes this.
  2. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Nobody is born Sith. But being a Sith is being evil.
  3. Mostly Handless Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2017
    star 4
    I guess it depends upon the individual Sith. The PT, and TPM in particular, goes out of its way to stress that Anakin was in no way an inherently bad person, far from it. By contrast, I've always gotten the impression that Palpatine was pretty much evil incarnate from the cradle.
    Last edited by Mostly Handless, Jun 17, 2017
  4. Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2016
    star 5
    If I were to answer quickly, based on what Sith typically are shown to be, I'd say yes. And, if I may take the liberty to say so, the Sith of these Boards are very proud of their evil ways and so I say "Yes...yes we are thank you very much."

    But there is a small bit of leeway with the Dark Side. Sith, though they draw upon the Dark Side, are not inherently evil. Sith drawn upon anger and hate to fuel their power, but they do not have to commit acts of evil in the process. I don't believe their dark feelings make them evil...only their actions could do that. So, in a way, no, Sith do not have to be evil and are not inherently so.

    However...

    This anger and hate often lead the wieldier to commit acts of evil, thereby making them...well...evil.

    So, it's not inherent, but it's pretty darn inevitable.
    Last edited by Anakin.Skywalker, Jun 17, 2017
  5. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Depends the sith code appeals to many people and has its merits.
  6. Torib Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2016
    star 2
    Certainly the Sith we see in the movies can all pretty fairly be described as evil based on the things they do and the atrocities they commit, although I guess it could be argued that Darth Maul, despite his demonic appearance, doesn't really do anything particularly evil -- killing an opponent in honorable combat hardly qualifies. Vader and Dooku even at their worst still seem to retain a certain amount of honorableness in their behavior (even as they may murder and threaten people here and there when it suits them to do so).

    But as for why the Sith tend to act in evil ways, I think it can probably be ascribed to their more aggressive approach to using the Force. The Sith seek control: not content merely to let the Force flow through them of its own accord, they try to bend it to their will, to make it subservient to their mind. This is an unhealthy state of being: instead of the mind adapting to the world around it, the world is being forcibly altered so that it remains in accordance with what the mind wants. Using the dark side, then, is fundamentally an egotistical act, because it's reshaping and redirecting the primevil life energies of the universe to suit one's own shallow ends. And I guess evil could be described as just a more extreme form of egotism, where the suffering of others is ignored or disregarded as the perpetrator pursues what he wants.
    Huttese 101 and Anakin.Skywalker like this.
  7. Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2016
    star 5
    @Torib

    Although I agree with the vast majority of your post, I have to disagree that a Dark Sider's use of the Force is an unhealthy state of being. The Force is an impartial and integral part of every living being, with some being lucky enough to be able to use it. Both Jedi and With bend the Force to their will, if you decide to call it that -- they just use it differently. Both Sith and Jedi "submit" to and control the Force. So while their uses may be different, it is essentially the same process.
  8. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    As we know, Sith are not born evil.

    Being evil requires evil acts and evil mindset.

    Simply "being Sith" doesn't necessarily mean that, but realistically, a Sith is all about using the dark side, which requires an evil mindset and usually generates evil acts.

    No one is ever 100% evil. Not Palpatine. Not the Devil himself.
    Last edited by Ghost, Jun 18, 2017
    Sith Lord 2015 and oncafar like this.
  9. Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2015
    star 4
    Well, the films don't really shine much light on Palpatine's youth, so you can't really determine if he's always been that way solely based on them, but he does showcase all the traits of a classical psychopath. I don't know about the new canon books and comics, but the old EU at least supported this notion, and George always did intend for him to be evil incarnate. Basically the Devil.
  10. Oissan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 7
    I disagree. The Jedi let the force flow through themselves. They obviously use it on a minor level to do things you normally wouldn't be able to do, but they listen to the will of the force and let themselves be guided by it. The Sith are the opposite, they try to twist the force to do their bidding, and are also muddying it so that others can't use it properly anymore. Palpatine did this on a huge level, which is why he caused the force to rid itself of his influence by creating the chosen one.

    The Sith use the force in an unnatural way. This doesn't matter much on a lower scale, because the force is too vast to be impacted by minor acts, but as can be seen in the movies, the way of the Sith can cause the force to be moved out of balance, which triggers a response to return to balance.
  11. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    Nobody is born evil. George never introduced that idea, and he never would. It's a dangerous concept.
  12. Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2016
    star 5
    But the Sith also listen to the Force. And I don't believe they use it unnaturally -- the Force is not partial. True, they moved it out of balance, but it wasn't done "unnaturally" because they used the Force to do it. I don't think it would be "unnatural" to use the Force in a way that the Force can be used. Unnatural would, I feel, be working outside of the Force to manipulate the Force.
  13. sith_rising Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    I've always liked the idea of a "Sith Light", sometime during the peaceful pre-TPM era. During times without war, no armies, Jedi just doing their negotiation thing, Senators doing their thing, there had probably been a Sith or two like Count Dooku - just chilling in his elegant estate, not some dark dungeon, no black robes, no tattoos, just biding his time, training in the Dark Arts but doing his "real" job at the same time. He may go his whole life without double-crossing or killing anyone, may never usurp his master, and might just die in his bed.
  14. ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2015
    star 4
    No one is born a Sith or born evil. Just like no one is born corrupted , but the dark side corrupts
  15. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    The Sith code is very Nietzchean. It is fundamently about the liberation of the individual, conquest of death, and achieving one's full potential "The force shall free me."

    There's your villain apologetics for the day.
  16. The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    I don't think it's that simple. I think everyone's born a little bit good and a little bit evil. Some people naturally tend towards one more than the other, but except in cases of true mental incapacity there's always a choice. Palpatine probably had a teensy-tiny little bit of good deep down inside him somewhere, but unlike Vader he didn't have any human connections powerful enough to ever bring it out of him. And he probably never would have been an exceptionally good person like Anakin was.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Jun 24, 2017
    Darthman92 likes this.
  17. ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2015
    star 4
    Perhaps. We all perceive and react to things differently.

    If some are born with more evil than others than I agree that Palpatine was probably always crazy . He felt no remorse for anything unlike Vader who always has that Jedi spirit deep with in
  18. The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Sidious is obviously a megalomaniac who's out for power over any other consideration, but I always felt that he really believed on some level that he was bringing peace and order to a chaotic universe, and that it was a good thing for the galaxy that he was in charge. How could it not be, when he's the absolute greatest, wisest, and magnificent being to have ever lived?
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Jun 24, 2017
    EECHUUTA and Darth Formidious like this.
  19. Darth Formidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2015
    star 4
    Good and evil are simplified concepts.

    In my opinion, Sith are not born evil but are corrupted by the dark side. However, people are born with a tendency to be naturally drawn to one side or another. The Sith don't think of themselves as evil; they want 'good' but a tainted and perverse form of 'good'. This is what George Lucas alluded to when mentioning that the Emperor did have "good intentions".

    @The_Phantom_Calamari gives a great insight into Sidious' intent.
    themoth likes this.
  20. Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2016
    star 3
    It depends on the motivations and ambitions of each Sith in the old expanded universe some Sith just wanted to bring destruction to the galaxy, others wanted to govern it to have a better government, some were secretly hidden to better learn the dark side skills (This happened more with the Sith post Bane-era) and some became Sith by knowledge


    It all depends on the motivations of the person the Jedi could also be considered evil because they served the republic and they attacked innocent worlds united to the separatists and even some killed their Padawans to avoid the resurgence of the Sith while others were selfish and corrupt

    As I said above everything depends on what the person does
    Last edited by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Jul 9, 2017
  21. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    Nobody involved in creating Star Wars would agree with the concept of anyone being born "evil" or born as a darksider. That's a terrible idea to convey to younger people. Or to any people, for that matter.
    Last edited by Gigoran Monk, Jul 9, 2017
    Martoto77 likes this.
  22. Daxon101 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2016
    star 2
    Evil is a point of view.
  23. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5


    That's irrelevant. I'm objecting to the idea that people are born with an inherent moral disposition. Morality is learned, not inherited. The latter idea is incredibly dangerous and at the center of a lot of racist views.
    vncredleader likes this.
  24. Ancient Whills Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2011
    star 5
    Didn't a writer confirm there was supposed to be a script from the Underworld TV series where Palpatine would have a sympathetic backstory? If so then no, Sith are not inherently evil. Selfish and power-hungry? Definitively. Though from what we see in the movies and other medias, they act evil too.
  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    There's always the "sociopathy is at least partially inborn" theory.
    Huttese 101 likes this.
Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat