Are the current NJO 'Jedi Masters' really to be taken as masters?

first of all, theres luke. not withstanding that he never got more than a months worth of hands on training from true jedi master (obi wan and yoda), but he also seems not to have grasped several 'jedi master' ways and techniques. weve yet to see him glance into the future as yoda did (hes had 'glances' but none so direct as yoda could), he cant 'watch' other people through the force as obi wan and yoda did to him ('this one, a long time have i watched'), he has no concept of 'the living force' or the 'moving force' or any other phase of the force other than dark and light, and he just doesnt have the 'aura' of a master jedi.




and even if you let his experience as a jedi count him as a master, are kyp, corran, mara, kenth, and cilghal master too? if all you have to do is take an apprentice to become a master, then yes their masters, but then there are so many more who arent counted as masters by LFL. none of those i just mentioned accually have the level of force experience that even luke has, and they seem to have grasped force concepts even less (save for maybe corran, whos done remarkable things with little force strength).

also, and this shouldnt really count much against them, from what ive read no jedi alive has the lightsaber skills that even padawan obiwan had. this may just be a result of seeing obiwan on screen, and not seeing the NJO knights on screen, but it still goes to stand. am i the only one to have thought of this?

 

they're Jedi Masters of a different breed, a more liberal one.

 

Luke, yes

Kyp, a grudging yes

Kam, yes

Tionne, should be

Mara, no

Corran, no

Kenth, I dunno.

 

"Corran, a grudging yes"

"Corran, no"

Make up your mind.

 

uum mastage, you mentioned corran twice.

id say yes in his case, but only because of his adaptability of the force. luke yes only because of his experience and because there are no other 'real' masters alive (unless vergere.........nope, she was a padawan when the left) now that ikrits gone.

 

I think Mas meant Kyp gudging yes, Corran no



And lets be honest, HOW do we know? Kyp dissapeared from Levethian to his JJK cameo. He could have done more than any other Jedi ever.

 

I agree that Tionne should be a Jedi Master- she has spent all that time at the academy researching Jedi lore, and has students of her own. Just because she's not out there cleaving Vong in half, doesn't make her role as historian and instructor any less vital or important.

As for Luke, he's doing the best he can with what he knows. He's also wise enough to make changes when he realizes when there are other ways of doing things.

 

I'm very surprised that Mara was counted as a master. It's been, what, nine or so years since she married Luke and started a steady training schedule? Many of the Knights listed went through years more than that and they're just knights.

 

Well, look at kyle, he isn't a master either.

Wallace infered that tionne isn't one in similer cicumstance when I talked to him. (teaching a student doesn't make one a jedi master.)

 

"It's been, what, nine or so years since she married Luke and started a steady training schedule?"

Not even. 6 years pass between VotF and VP. So, at the max it's been six years, and thats only if she started training immediately. The only reason she's considered a master is because she's married to Luke, it's called Nepotism...

 

I was referring to the current point the NJO is at, which is three years into the invasion, therefore nine years (roughly) after VotF.

 

Ok. SBS is only 2 years into the invasion, though. So it would still be only 8. Mara is considered a master in DT for sure, and presumably in VP as well. Therefore, she was declared a master after only 6 years.

 

Actually going by ages mentioned for kids in SBS, I think lfl skipped 1 year of the invasion. Of course denning might have errored in his mentioning of ages?

 

the problem with tionne being a master is she isnt very strong in the force according to the KJA book. though she did seem stronger later on thogh

 

Luke, Corran, Kyp, Kam, Cihgal, Tionne and Mara kind of, are all Masters. Vergere was Knight, not a padawan, read Rogue Planet, I think it might (I am probably wrong) mention Vergere as a Knight. Another thing, Corran, Jacen, Anakin, Luke, Kam (maybe) all have as good or better lightsaber prowess as the Jedi of old did. Corran and Luke are obvious why they do, and just because you are pacifistic doesn't mean you are you a bad duelist. Jacen is very good, Anakin is almost as good. Kam well, he was a Dark Jedi, and an agent of the Empire, if I remember right, I might be mixing him up with someone else. Also, just because Corran does not have strong telekinetic powers doesn't mean he isn't strong in the force, btw. Oh yeah, one more thing, Obi-wan would have gotten ripped to shreds by the Vong.

 

Obi-wan is still a knight even though he is teaching anakin skywalker in the movies. Teaching doesn't make one a master, there is more to it than that.

 

AS far as "these" masters having less lightsaber skill than padawan obi-wan, aside of luke, you have to also take into account that Obi-wan becomes one of the greatest Jedi Knights of the Old Republic, a general in the clone wars, defeats Anakin, defeats Maul.In Saber dueling, TPM make's it clear, IMO, that Obi-wan was even better than his Master at that part of being a Jedi, despite his touch of the darkside to do it. So it's concievable that Obi-wan as a padawan would be better then even some of the masters of the old order.

Also, Luke really had no one to train him in lightsaber dueling. His entire experiences with dueling were against Vader and remotes. He never dueled for practice as we see the NJO do. So it's also feasable to assume that he's still learning to teach this aspect of being a JEDI, while the old order had thousands of years of swordsmanship to train with.

However, as far as the NJO masters go...

Luke - Definately

Mara - should still be a padawan in my mind (joke)

Cilghal - yes only because she's a Master Healer

Kyp Durron - No, part of being a master is learning temperence and patience, Kyp has neither, he's too headstrong yet IMO to be considered a true master.

Corran Horn - I dunno, he's not very powerful in the force in my eyes, however he earned his stripes defeating Shedao Shai.

Kam Solusar - the juries still out IMO

However, in the "dramatis personae" at the beginning of Dark Tide I: Onslaught, Mara is listed as a Knight not a master, and even in Edge of Victory II: Rebirth Corran is listed as a Knight as well, so I dunno if he can be considered one. And I don't remember where Mara is elevated to that level, unless as was mentioned earlier in this thread that simply taking an apprentice raises you to Master level. If that's the only way they're going to justify mastership, then I don't agree. Obviously Luke IMO is THE master, although we have to take into account that this is a different JEDI order, the experience of the Old Masters just isn't there to feed off and learn from.

 

mara's had some form of training for just as long, and possibly longer than luke. Palapatine, jat(briefly), kyle, then the honeymoon and beyond. She has had quite a bit of training.

 

Mazzara, wasn't Jacen able to fight with two lightsabers? *scratches head* I didn't read the YJK or JJK series. So I have no clue. And this is my thinking about the Jedi Masters.

Luke: Yes. He's the only Jedi in the New Order to have gotten training from any of the Jedi Masters of the Old. Also, he's like one of the oldest Jedi in the NO, more expierence because of that.

Kyp: Um...I don't really know Kyp that well, except he annoys me a bit in the books after VP. Maybe yes there...

Kam: I don't really know Kam that well, so I'm not going to pass judgement.

Tionne: Same thing as Kam.

Mara: Yes. She's been trained by the Emporer using the Dark Side, yes, but that must give her more expierence than any other Jedi, maybe more than Luke. The fact that she actually got some Jedi training for six years doesn't get rid of the fact that she has been trained, though it was Sith training. I think she deserves to be a Master.

Corran: I think it's about the same situation as Kam and Tionne.

Kenth: Ditto

 

Kyle was before JAT by the way.

 

Mara didn't get sith training just neutral force training by palpatine.

"She is neither light nor dark"-palpatine.

 

And I don't remember where Mara is elevated to that level, unless as was mentioned earlier in this thread that simply taking an apprentice raises you to Master level. If that's the only way they're going to justify mastership, then I don't agree.

Me neither. I think it's just dumb. I think of Mara as a strong new Knight. Like Obi-wan was when he was newly knighted. By no means is she a master. Just because Jaina tagged around with her for three or four years, and has the Skywalker talent to boot, doesn't make Mara a master. Jaina sure made that easy on her since she could move objects around at four. Mara was what? 28 when she did that? I think Jaina could teach her a thing or two.

 

"Mara: Yes. She's been trained by the Emporer using the Dark Side, yes, but that must give her more expierence than any other Jedi, maybe more than Luke. The fact that she actually got some Jedi training for six years doesn't get rid of the fact that she has been trained, though it was Sith training. I think she deserves to be a Master"

I wouldn't exactly call what Mara received from the Emperor 'Sith Training'. As already stated, it was neutral. Secondly, it was barely any training at all. He taught her how to hear his voice across the galaxy with the force, and nurtured her danger sense. Thats about it. Some Jedi could do more powerful things innately, without any training.

Mara went from barely any training to a Master in 6 or 7 years? Some people say that its not the amount of training, rather its the quality of the training or the amount of experience. In another thread, someone proposed that Mara was a master because she spent 6 years training very closely with a Jedi Master. They said the closeness of Luke and Mara's relationship compensated for the briefness of her training. But the Jedi Master/Padawan relationship was very intense (something akin to a parent/child relationship) yet the time from padawan to knight (not master) was something like 18-25 years.

As for Mara's experience, how much could she have? She has loads of non-jedi experience, but how does that equate to experience as a Jedi? She trained in one of the most peaceful times in the galaxy in decades. The other Jedi masters we're discussing here participated in the Galactic Civil War and honed there skills there. The most Mara could have encountered during training was petty regional arguments and the such. There simply weren't as many oppurtunities for Mara to put her new skills to use and to gain experience. Luke was able to make up for his lack of training with lots of experience, yet the debate about whether he actually was a Master when he declared himself one still rages. So what accounts for Mara's meteoric rise from regular person to Jedi Master?

 

has anyone else noticed that not ONE jedi master currently alive (maybe vergere) has the aura of wisdom that the masters of old had?

i think mara, cilghal, kenth, and even kyp are masters in the way that qui gon was a jedi master. there upper-level knights (in this era). i think the only ones that come close to being an accual master are tionne, corran, and luke. kyp seems very much like a sort of new order qui gon, with a little of callistas master (i forget his name, other than he was a renegade master). mara is definitely a knight, but sure as heck not a master. nepotism is a horrid thing. corran should be considered a master because he was sort of nudged into his teachings, and learned many things and ways of the jedi on his own. but thats just my opinion.

 

If a Jedi Knight sucessfully trains a Padawan Learner or other Jedi Apprentice to the level of a full Jedi Knight or until they complete the trials then they become a Jedi Master.

One question however...what if a Jedi doesnt train another or does not want an apprentice?how do you become a jedi master without training someone else?Luke did it in Dark Empire but he also helped Leia train as a jedi Knight which was mentioned in the comic.