Are the final 40 minutes of AOTC the best in action cinema history?

I couldn't find a topic about the action in AOTC on the first three pages, so please don't lock this, mods.

Anyway, this topic was inspired by Steven Spielberg's comment that AOTC featured the best action directing of Lucas's career. I don't normally heap praise on films excessively . . . but I think they are the best ever!

Allow me to explain:

A lot of blockbusters these days seem to peak too early, as if they're afraid of boring the audience. To give some examples - Pearl Harbor had the attack happen at the halfway point; Gladiator had the biggest arena battle take place in the middle; FOTR had the Mines of Moria as the setpiece, and the battles that came later felt slightly anti-climatic to me; and Spider-Man, well there wasn't much great action to begin with in that (good film, though).

I think AOTC, on the other hand, is a textbook example of how to build a complex final action sequence, adding new thrills and danger at each stage. I believe Lucas learnt from the mistakes of TPM, where the build-up to the final battle took too long and the whole sequence was too rushed when it finally arrived (not to mention the overuse of parallel cutting). I enjoyed the final battles in TPM, but it felt like a dry run, IMO.

There was a long build-up to the final battle in AOTC too, but I think Lucas paced it better with some short but sweet action scenes early on (interspersed with that pesky stuff called plot and character development) that wet my appetite for what was to come. All the hints early on in the film - Dooku being a great former Jedi, the clone army, etc. - paid off in the most amazing battle sequence I've ever seen.

What I love about the Battle of Geonosis compared to the other Star Wars battles is that it doesn't start as a standard conflict. First we have the fight with the Arena monsters, which would do fine for the conclusion of most films. Then it escalates, in time-honored Saturday Matinee Serial fashion, with the Jedi coming to the rescue. Seeing the Jedi charge into battle sabers drawn was something I've dreamed of seeing for 25 years! Then, of course, the Calvary . . . I mean clones arrive and the whole thing turns into the biggest inter-galactic rumble in history.

Some critics have claimed that the sheer spectacle of the battle distracts us from becoming involved with the characters on a personal level, but I didn't feel that was a problem. What we're seeing is galactic history being made with the start of the clone wars, and the heroes have no control other it. They're mere pawns in the larger struggle for control of the galaxy that Sidious and Dooku have orchestrated. This is not a minor skirmish, or a fun adventure for our heroes. It's WAR.

Finally, of course there's the lightsaber duel, and while it may not match Duel of the Fates in terms of sheer visual thrill, I think it makes up for it with emotion. There was no real reason for Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to fight Maul, other than the fact they were Jedi and he was a Sith.
But I could feel Anakin's anger ("You're going to pay for all the Jedi you killed today, Dooku!") and Obi-Wan's calm determination to stop Dooku, which made for a more emotionally-charged duel, IMO. And of course there was the Yoda fight, which was . . . pretty cool. The audience I was with seemed quite excited about this as well.

So that's basically why I think AOTC features the greatest action setpieces of Lucas's career and will ensure the film's place as one of the greatest action/adventure movies of all time, up there with Raiders of the Lost Ark and Terminator 2.

But that's just my opinion.

 

That's my opinion too.

 

Icebreaker Agrees




~ICeBReaKeR

 

i would say it is.

 

No.

We still have the Battle of Helm's Deep coming in Dec., which no one has seen yet, for one. There is also the final battle in The Return of the King.

There are many equally compelling (either visually or thematically) finales. I'll get flamed for this, but it needs to be said: arguments can be made that as bad as some of the effects were, there is little difference in scope between AOTC and The Mummy Returns. Further, Gunga Din offers an epic battle with personal sacrifice. The Matrix certainly can make a claim to the title. Even Speed, while smaller in scope, can make the claim. Enter the Dragon contains many of the same elements, and is an established part of cinema history. Mad Max can make the same claim.

Don't get me wrong - I do enjoy the last 40 minutes of AOTC (minus the Yoda duel). "Best in cinema history" is a far greater claim than many realize. Cinema history is far richer and varied than these fora tend to admit; I think it's being tossed around too lightly and without sufficient justification.

 

I'm with Q-Sith on this.

 

I loved it but i wouldn't say best in action cinema history.

 

I think it's the second best action setpiece in the entire saga. Reason? It has a wart on it - C3P0's banter. A dark, epic action scene isn't afraid to offer non-stop grimness until the final payoff. Which is why I think the climactic Death Star run in ANH is still the best action setpiece in the entire series. Pure character drama, and relentless.

Other great action scenes I would nominate - the multi-weapon fight between the two women in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon; the chariot race in Ben Hur (if that counts); the opening battle against the Germanic tribes in Gladiator; the rescue of Morpheus in The Matrix. And well-paced suspense can count for a lot - when I was 13, I thought the most intense action scene ever was the final chase in The Road Warrior.

However, AOTC's ending gets colossal props for offering 40 minutes of action, offering new surprises all along the way, and never for a second getting old. Definitely way up in the top 10 or so of all time, IMHO.

 

Compared against Peal Harbour and Gladiator, yes it has the best action sequence.

Pearl Harbour sucks btw.

Compared with the whole history of American cinema? Thats a whole nother issue.
Apart from the ones Astreus mentioned I would also add Saving Private Ryan, Braveheart, T2, Raiders Of The Lost Ark and Apocolypse Now.

 

I don't know if it is the best, but taken all together it is my favorite, so yes I would say so.

 

As far as the scale of the action, probably yes.

But as far as how it impacted me personally, no. I would name "Gladiator" as one example where the action was much smaller in scale, but more personal, and thus it had more impact for me. "T2" is another example - All the way from the office building siege to the steel mill, incredible action. Both these movies had action that felt more intense and suspensful for me than the Geonosis arena/battle.

Is bigger action always better? Not IMO.

 

Is it the greatest action? Yes.

Why?

Well, I'm not exactly sure if any battles in othe rmovies have had the same scale, but when it comes to details, enjoyment, and actual character development, it tops all. It didn't have the "brother getting killed on the battlefield" emotion, but it had that kind of emotion that you feel helpless, suffocated, which is even better in my opinion.

And why was RotK and TTT battles even mentioned? Obviously we can't predict what future movies will be like, this is about if AOTC is the best NOW.

 

Loved the Morephous resuce in the matrix. All of the action in Terminator 2 were intense. Couching Tiger Hidden Dragon has some of the best hand to hand combat in film history. Those girls can kick ass.

Plus Fist of Legend with Jet li also has some good combat scenes.

 

Well, I'm not exactly sure if any battles in othe rmovies have had the same scale, but when it comes to details, enjoyment, and actual character development, it tops all.

This is what I'm talking about - making an assumption based on incomplete and inadequate evidence. If you haven't seen the other films, you have no basis for comparison. Thus the difference made by "IMHO".

EDIT:

And why was RotK and TTT battles even mentioned? Obviously we can't predict what future movies will be like, this is about if AOTC is the best NOW.

Because they are in the can now. Since all three films have been filmed, they are part of cinema history. We will see how they stack up to the others in a few months. "NOW" and "Best Ever" are distinctly different claims, much in the same way as "Best in 2001" and "Best Ever" are different claims.

Saying that AOTC trumps them all simply does a disservice to all of the great films that came before it, as well as the mediocre films that happened to excel in action. It's an unjustified claim in light of *all* of the other movies made in the genre. If it isn't made in an honest and comparitive light to other paradigmatic movies in the genre, it's simply hyperbolic fanboyism.

 

"Black Hawk Down" was kickass and a great memorial to the troops who fought the real battle. Too bad "Pearl Harbor" didn't live up to the hype. BHD was definitely the movie I hoped it would be and Ridley Scott delivered!
The CloneTroopers in action was pretty cool but altogether with the other scenes of lightsaber duels and all I still think BHD was more powerful and you felt like you were actually right there in the firefight! I wanted to fast-rope down and pop some caps as well! Hoo-aah...

 

Are the final 40 minutes of AOTC the best in action cinema history?

YES!

 

It's great stuff, but not the best in action cinema history.

Personally, I kind of felt that there was a lack of Anakin in action during the arena battle with the droids. Besides deflecting laser bolts, I think we, literally, only see him slice-and-dice one droid from the ground. He hops on Padme's chariot and gets a few more, but that's about it. Just from watching the 'Trying to do my Thing' video with Hayden on the OS, made me think we would definately see more of Anakin slaying droids. Also, it would have been very cool to see Anakin and Obi-Wan fighting side-by-side during that action. And of course a few more minutes of the lighsaber duels could added much more excitement.

I still dig the whole finale though.

 

Yeah, the last act of Episode II is unmatched.

 

ARE THE LAST 40...?

No.

Lucas' action/chase scenes are WAY too choppy [in sequence of events AND camera shots].

Bad flowage.

 

If you haven't seen the other films, you have no basis for comparison. Thus the difference made by "IMHO".

I never said I didn't see them (at least I don't htink I did), I meant that I couldn't think of the scales of the movies I've seen right now.

 

Although I love the end of AOTC and would definately rank it very high, I find it hard to believe that any movie surpasses the end of John Woo's Hard Boiled.

 

Indeed, Ultimate. Woo, himself, hasn't even come close, since.

 

[image=http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004W458.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg]

The wildest action movie I've ever seen.

 

Nice, Darth Poutine.

Hard-Boiled is action-filmmaking at it's best. The Killer is up there as well. Woo's American-made films have all let me down in one way or another. They just don't hold a candle compared to Hard-Boiled and The Killer.

 

I think it may be. The Road Warrior car chase is right with it as is the the end battle of Return of the Jedi in my opinion.