PT Are the prequels more appreciated now then they used to be?

Nostalgia is not confined to theatrical experiences, but is rather predicated on experiences period. We're nostalgic for what we were exposed too during our childhood and young adult years (yes, despite so many posts that imply the contrary, nostalgia is not just associated with your childhood years).

Every single person here will get nostalgic twinges based off plenty of cartoons, live action series and films that they grew up watching in re-runs or on home media/streaming.

Based off when I was born, I have nostalgic attachments to the original OT, which I grew up on via VHS and TV, along with the SE & TPM, which were released during my late teens; I have a very nostalgic connection to all things late 90s. TPM was the first Star Wars I ever experienced in the theaters before I did on home media.

It's odd that you assume people who grew up on the PT somehow either didn't likewise grow up on the OT, and that they couldn't prefer films from the OT to the PT. As I mentioned before, I know not a single person who "grew up on the PT" who prefers it to the OT. Most of them don't hate it, which is huge in an of itself, but preferring it to the originals? Haven't seen it, and again, only speaking from my experience.

Also you're underestimating the power of Disney's Star Wars, which is heavily based on the OT. If they continue in this vain we'll have far more people preferring the OT and it's connective sequels and spin offs than the isolated group of adults who might somehow prefer the prequels to everything else.

It might be massive wishful thinking if you honestly believe there's some huge, silent majority who will make the PT the "meat of Star Wars".

 

You do realize that your entire premise for comparing the prequel trilogy to the Moore films (let alone Bond in general) is flawed when you consider that Star Wars is a SAGA? As in, the prequel trilogy is literally vital to the entire story. With Bond, there is no such structure.

The same applies to Indiana Jones as well.

 

I think you make a lot of strong points, but I fail to grasp the suggestion that TFA didn't do for SW exactly what CR did for Bond. TFA was massively successful on every single measurable front, and it's follow up is heavily anticipated. It was an olive branch to the greater public, a calling card that it was safe to return back to the SW they loved, and it worked. And that good will tour continued with Rouge One.

SW is thoroughly reinvigorated in a way that nobody imagined. It is a safe franchise again. There's no major backlash, no contention, it's generally expected not only to make goobs of money, but to also be well received. That's not been the case in over 30 years. That all began with TFA, a film that was called on to do the near impossible, and pulled it off.

 

TFA was fairly safe in many ways, it felt like fans got what they wanted which is nostalgia with basically nothing with to much change from the OT.

I know i seen a fair amount of people who liked the movie criticize it for feeling like a rehash of everything OT but if anyone says that you will likely get someone else counteract it by bringing up the prequels as like a kinda what are you complaining about type thing.

 

Long before I saw a single frame of TFA I figured it would need to be a safe film. The PT, for a lot of people, tarnished Star Wars. From a purely marketing perspective it made sense that they'd do a "safe" film that recalled the OT, which is nearly universally beloved. It's not even about the artistic merit of the PT, but rather the perception.

TFA was what it needed to to be, and it succeeded extremely well. Now the hope is, between success of it and RO, they can begin to branch off into new territory. I really don't want TLJ to be a TESB call back.

I do miss George's innovation. I like how different the PT is from the OT, and while it makes perfect sense that the opening episode of ST would cut close to the OT, I hope the next two films begin breaking radically new ground that allows this trilogy to be distinct.

 

I think (perceived) quality enhances nostalgia just as much as nostalgia enhances quality. For a while now I've felt that the PT is just a more interesting set of films than the OT across the board. Not to say I dislike the OT, just that it hasn't been the core of my interest for a long time. Given that the PT is still driving my current interest in Star Wars, I naturally tend to look back on the days of its release with more fondness than I do with other parts of my personal fan timeline.

 

I think that now that we finally have more than just two trilogies to compare to, the PT is not singled out as much as it used to be. I also feel that hardcore fans have finally been able to move on from the old and tired PT bashing that was so everpresent in previous years, now that their attention is diverted to new material. People will always nitpick more on the old stuff if there's nothing new to sink their teeth in.

In terms of the general moviegoing public-people who don't know what the Sundered Heart is, or what the names of the creatures in the Geonosis execution arena are called, etc.-it seems that they were much more accepting of the PT than many hardcore fans were from the beginning. But now with the new films out, it seems the PT (for whatever perceived faults it had) is at this point if nothing else respected as a legit part of the story of the saga as a whole, and the names places and events now seem more respected as a legit part of the overall canon, not ignored or brushed aside like an ugly stepchild sort of thing...

 

QUANTUM OF SOLACE is technically vital to the entire story, yet most people just seem to ignore that one, whereas they do remember CASINO ROYALE. The fact is that CASINO ROYALE makes just as much sense as it did before QUANTUM OF SOLACE came out. Similarly, the original trilogy made perfect sense for 20 years without the prequels. So obviously, the prequels were never vital to that story, which worked just fine without them. So the only question is whether the subsequent films (THE FORCE AWAKENS and ROGUE ONE) make any sense without the prequels. Well, just like SKYFALL and SPECTRE, they make perfect sense to somebody who’s never seen the prequels. They don’t make much sense to somebody who’s never seen the originals, but they’re almost perfectly designed to work just fine for those who have never seen the prequels.

I think something like CASINO ROYALE did a perfect balancing act of returning the series to its roots after the disaster of DIE ANOTHER DAY (still the worst Bond film, in my opinion), as well as freshening it up and putting a new spin on it. THE FORCE AWAKENS really didn’t put a new spin on STAR WARS the way that CASINO ROYALE put a new spin on James Bond. It simply regurgitated all the STAR WARS motifs we know from the previous movies and put them into a well-made, entertaining, but very uninspired package. This is what I mean when I say that STAR WARS hasn’t really been reinvigorated. CASINO ROYALE made me more excited for the next Bond film than I ever had been at any point in my life (I was born after the classic Sean Connery era had already ended). THE FORCE AWAKENS had me looking forward to the next film, but it didn’t really get me excited about the future of STAR WARS. The fact is that I really haven’t been excited for a STAR WARS film since 1983…and THE FORCE AWAKENS didn’t really change that. (I’m actually one of the few people who predicted that THE PHANTOM MENACE would be a bad movie, considering the fact George Lucas hadn’t directed a film in over 20 years, the relative disappointment that RETURN OF THE JEDI had been, and that Lucas’s output in between trilogies had mostly been crap, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE notwithstanding. I didn’t predict just HOW bad it would be, but I knew it’d be bad.)

 

Ah, I see your point.

Though I'd argue that the best course of action for the SW reboot was exactly what we got. I never, ever expected VIII to be a radical departure. Disney-Lucasfilm heard the cries for a throwback, and that's what the delivered. TFA was exactly the movie Star Wars needed at that juncture. Now TLJ hopefully takes up the mantle of breaking new ground.

I'd also argue that while you personally are not, TFA, and now RO, have absolutely gotten scores of viewers exciting about the future of Star Wars.

 

TFA was a blatant remake of ANH, only with a politically correct cast, and Rogue One was full of the very same stuff that people screeched about in the prequels: CGI, wooden acting. Neither one of those flicks took a single risk, yet all we heard about was how "gutsy" the films were. And they wouldn't shut up about how TFA would "go back to the old school style of special effects," when it was just as laden with CGI as anyone accused the PT of being.

Maybe "scores" of people are excited about the future of SW because of TFA and R1, but I don't know if that's such a good thing. They're "excited" about TFA, which not only remade ANH, but which regressed the OT characters for the sake of "coolness"? And Luke wasn't just regressed. He was turned into a coward who runs and hides from a punk like Kylo.

 

I love the direction they took with the old gang in TFA, so we'll just leave it at that (though I will always lament that they didn't reunite the Big 3 one more time).

My point still stands. Regardless of how any one person here feels about the Disney SW films, they have ignited a positive reaction to Star Wars in a way that hasn't been done since the early 80s. And have made absurd amounts of money in the process. Disney's strategy is paying off.

 

So the strategy of homogenizing SW and retreading old territory and cynically pandering to a small if vocal minority of malcontents who liken the prequels to the molestation, even murder, of children, is paying off. How splendid.

I might also point out that the prequels made absurd amounts of money, but we're not supposed to remember that, right?

I HATED what was done with the "old gang," not least because it was part of the aforementioned cynical pandering.

And maybe remaking ANH and lying about how the movie would "return to the old style of special effects" was a good decision from a business standpoint, because it certainly got the media and the screeching haters on their side before the flick was even released, but not from an artistic standpoint. Yet it gets gushed over for its "artistry" as well.

 

WOW.

 

The more I see TFA get gushing praise it doesn't deserve and the more credit Abrams & Co. get for things they haven't done, the more sourly I feel toward them. I don't dislike TFA; I found it enjoyable. But that's all it really is: enjoyable. I wouldn't expect anything else from Disney, the safest-playing money machine in the business. And I could have done without the subtle and not-so-subtle jabs Abrams & Co. took at the PT, by way of kissing up to the screeching malcontents. I especially could have done without Abrams' BFF Simon Pegg likening the prequels to infanticide.

ETA:

By the by, TFA has not ignited a positive reaction toward SW that hasn't been seen since the early 80s. The SEs did that, or at least, ANH: SE did. So did Episode I, at least until the haters took over the microphone. I know the prequels have plenty of detractors. I could hardly think otherwise, since the alleged "fact" that "everyone hates the prequels" has been trumpeted nonstop for 18 solid years.

I doubt that the prequels are as well-liked, in general, as the OT. The OT was a one-time thing, an experience that really can't be repeated, due to various societal, cultural, and technological factors.

However, the prequels did get a whole new generation interested in SW, although the haters bragged that they would "not allow" their kids to watch the PT, at least not without thoroughly schooling them on how bad it is. And then there's the "humorous" clips of haters going up to kids in toy stores and scolding them for picking out Jar Jar action figures. Wow, such wit and hilarity. Actually, that sort of thing comes across as nothing more than bullying to anyone who isn't a faux hipster/hater. That kids enjoyed the heck out of TPM: 3-D despite all the silly, histrionic warnings in the media about "exposing" their tender psyches to "the worst movie ever made," indicates to me that maybe the supposedly universal hatred for the PT isn't so universal after all, and that kids, if allowed to form their own opinions instead of being pushed toward hatred by their infantile, spiteful parents, will generally like the PT.

 

I couldn't care less personally what any of these people think in real life about any film, SW or otherwise. I try to judge artistic endeavors based off the quality of said endeavors.

So I don't get knocking a film simply just because other people love it, for whatever reason, in the same way I don't get mindlessly hating the PT just because so many other people seem to.

Also lets me real, the "malcontents" are far more plentiful than you're willing to admit. These new films aren't being based heavily off the OT simply because a small, vocal minority screamed the loudest.

The irony is you're acting very much like the PT bashers that obviously get under your skin. Two sides of the exact same coin.

 

So this pseudo-objectivity makes your view, as you describe it, the "real" one?

The malcontents aren't nearly as plentiful as you keep insisting. People who make the most noise get the most attention.

And took over the microphone. And made it their duty to shout down any and all positive discussion of the prequels. And were the only group that the media paid attention to. This created a feedback loop: the haters spewed hatred, the media trumpeted their rantings all over the world as THE view of SW fandom, and the haters cited these reports as "proof."

And the new films, or at least TFA, aren't "based heavily off the OT." TFA is a paint-by-numbers remake of ANH.

If the prequels are so hated and the haters such an overwhelming, influential majority, why were there two prequel actors in Rogue One? Why didn't Disney recast the characters?

Not even close. My criticisms of TFA are mild compared to the virulent, violent, nonstop hatred that has been flung at the prequels for almost two decades. And while the haters hate the prequels (but seem strangely unable to move on from them, or even stop watching them), I don't hate TFA. Like I said, I enjoyed it. I'm "knocking" the film, as you said, based on what I think should be "knocked" about it.

 

I just recently rewatched all 7 movies and while there would have been a time when my order would have gone

4, 5, 6, 3, 2, 1

I'd say it's now

5, 3, 4, 7, 2, 6, 1

I guess I just don't really see the delineation of trilogies anymore. A prequel is one of my favorites, an original is in my bottom 2, and the first film of the new trilogy is smack in the middle.

I will say, having seen Rogue One with friends that had never seen a Star Wars movie (taking me to see it was their bday gift for me) and then leaving the theater hearing them go on and on about how much it sucked, it does really impact my own ability to enjoy it. Being surrounded by Debbie Downers criticizing something you like can ruin something that otherwise can be enjoyable. The opposite can also be true, if a bunch of Star Wars fans took someone who had never seen one, their enthusiasm can be infectious.

So when it comes to prequel hate, I'm guessing some of it could be a snowball of pessimism. Herd mentality.

Now that critics have new films coming out every year, I'm sure prequel hate will probably not be voiced so loudly. And they probably won't be treated so harshly going forward.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

That's what everyone said in 1999. Look what happened now.

 

What happened now?

 

You know, I wasn't really aware of the prequel hate until a few years ago. I always liked all 6 of the movies. There were things I liked and disliked in each one. I guess my few pet peeves about the prequels are the political scenes are a bit tedious IMO (but it was necessary to the story I guess). And I didn't like that the circumstances of Padme's death. I had always assumed, based on what Leia told Luke in ROTJ, that Padme was alive until Leia was 2 or 3. My personal canon I guess you could say was she was in hiding in the palace on Alderaan. Maybe in disguise and posing as Leia's governess. Long enough for Leia to have actual memories, just not very clear ones. So then you have her dying right after the twins were born. So I guess The Force is as good an explanation as any why Leia remembers her. However, I think Luke (even though he doesn't recall his mother's face), remembers her last words. Or The Force somehow impressed the idea "There is still good in him on his mind". And no, I don't buy it when some people try to explain it away by saying she was talking about her adopted mother Breha. The fact that Luke said "Your real mother", tells me he knows she's adopted and he knows that she knows it too.

You are right about how things like prequel hate can just snowball out of control. Or herd mentality. I refuse to be herded. Sometimes it seems to me like I like the stuff other people don't. Maybe I'm just contrary that way.

 

Original Trilogy bonanza.

 

I feel like I walked in on an argument between Smeagol and Gollum.

 

Anyway, as I've said already if Disney does have an anti-PT agenda then...
1. I must need glasses because I don't see it, since..
2. LFL seems to be building on the legacy of both Lucas trilogies going forward. Otherwise
3. Why would we be getting comic panels about

Spoiler: Leia sensing Maul on Naboo

Spoiler: post from page 6

Yes there was the ''real sets, practical effects'' marketing of TFA.

But the second line of that movie was, ''Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in The Force.'' Balance of The Force is a PT concept. The movie also ends at the location of a supposed Jedi Temple, another aspect of the PT's legacy.
Then there is Rogue One, which quite happily dished out Genevieve O'Reilly (Mon Mothma), Jimmy Smits (Bail Organa), Coruscant and Mustafar, all of which were also introduced to SW by the PT.
Rebels has also not been afraid to put Pt and TCW call backs into their show. We've had Maul, Ahsoka and Rex in the flesh, the hologram of Anakin training with a Lightsaber, more Jedi Temples and some exotic PTish planets as well, Takobo comes to mind.

Then there are the novels and the comics. Yes there has been more content covering the OT time frame, but PT era content has not dried up completely by any means. Since the EU reboot we have gotten...
'Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir' by Jeremy Barlow (4 issues)
'Kanan' by Greg Weisman (12 issues)
'Obi-wan and Anakin' by Charles Soule (5 issues)
'Darth Maul' by Cullen Bunn (5 issues)
The main 'Star Wars' comic has just completed a 4 issue detour through the PT era, and we are due an ongoing 'Vader' series, also written by Soule, set immediately after the end of ROTS this summer.
Christie Golden's 'Dark Disciple' and
James Luceno's 'Catalyst' are also set in the PT era.

In conclusion, although the primary focus seems to be on OT currently, the PT era is still alive and well in Disney's 'Star Wars'.

I understand that those who dislike PT may not want to acknowledge this, but it appears to me that its here to stay, and that's that.

 

This is exactly why Star War is slowly losing its value to me. Disney won't cover the full universe. A lot of the newer Star Wars fans didn't grow up to the PT or the OT. For many their first taste of Star Wars is the Filoniverse. Many of these newer fans enjoy Clone Wars, but Disney will not make any films during the 32bby-12bby timeline and that is a real shame. The Han Solo film will most likely be after 12bby as well. I just don't understand why they won't create media based during 32bby-12bby timeline or even go pre 32bby. Just have to wait wait wait.

 

I can easily be nostalgic about things from before touchscreen phones, before Facebook and MySpace, before 9/11, having another job just seven years ago, watching "The Phantom Menace" for the first time, etc, and I was an adult during all of that. It isn't the same as looking back on childhood, but nostalgia none the less.
For me, the initiative behind the prequels is appreciated. I watched the movies curious about Lucas's plot and design. It felt a little more official and focused knowing he was behind it, kind of like with "the Clone Wars."