Are the Royal Guards for the Emperor Clones?

Theres a few failures to the cloning idea though, there are several RG that go "rogue". Jax and that one who joined the RA. What failure would that be in the cloning process to make these clones of the Emperors personal guard go against him?

I was thinking earlier today that perhaps in their training they Emperor brainwashed them, or something through the force to bend them more to his will. I totally forget what made Jax turn though, I had a reason, but now I forget. Maybe it was all Lumiyas doing.

As for Jax's unmasking, I figured it was just to show he was a man. The difference between him and Kanos seemed to reflect how they lived. Kanos was rugged and gruff, scarred, reflecting his loyal service to the Emperor. While Jax had neat hair, clean cut features, he looked like he had an easy life. Thats what it meant to me, not clones.

 

Jax could have had some kind of error in the cloning process. Maybe someone spilled an atrisian crystal in his flash matrix or whatever.

As to people not liking Tierce's identity, since the Royal Guard info is so secret they might not have known he was originally a clone. Maybe even Thrawn didn't know, and Tierce's crazyness was caused by the effects of a clone being cloned.

Well, we've had plenty of rogue clones before. Spar, the guy who founded Aurodium Shield, Able. Plus if they were GeNodes, maybe their programmed personality overrides their limitations after a while.

 

1. We've seen Clonetroopers go rogue before.

2. Jax turned because the Emperor preferred recruiting scum than pure fanatics. Jax was hardly the exception.

3. I admit, I don't think that Kir and Jax looked alike.

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/2/21/FinalFaceOfDeath.jpg]

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/49/Kirkanos1modified.jpg]

 

werent the rogue Clonetroopers the Arc type? with alot more cognative freedom than the standard rank and file? I just dont see a good reason where an elite, need to be perfect clone for the Emperors personal guard no less, would generate some kind of flaw like that. Thats just me though. I prefer to think of them as not clones, that I can reconcile in my mind when someone switches sides.

And if it is confirmed they are clones...I'll say right now that Kanos will be linked to being a clone of Kyle Katarn

 

Yeah, but that pictue of Kanos also doesn't really look like he does in the comics (did he ever even have a beard?). Neither does his NEGTC pic.

 

toy sculpt, but its side by side at least
[image=http://i18.ebayimg.com/06/i/07/c9/c5/77_2.JPG]

 

They do look alike in the comic-- but, with the artist who drew it, most men look alike aside from basic distinguishers like hair and eye color.

I think, at least in Jax's case, the idea of him being a clone is best chalked up to authorial intent and therefore not canon. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Randy's work and it sucks he wasn't consulted about the further use of his character, but at this point there's really nothing to indicate Jax is a clone and plenty to indicate he isn't.

 

I always believed he was a clone and frankly wondered why people argued that Kir Kanos and company weren't. Doesn't it occur to anyone that there's no life for Kir Kanos mentioned at ANY point? Not when Mirith Sinn is talking about her dead husband. Not when he's flashing back.

His life is entirely from the Royal Guards onward. Not even an internal monologue like "I was born on Tatooine..."

I didn't believe he and Jax were clones of the SAME person (I thought Kir was a clone of Kyle Katarn) but I never thought he wasn't a clone.

 

Well, it seems to me that the Empire would want more cognitive abilities in elite troopers for the same reason, otherwise they just stand around and wait for the Stormtrooper Effect to bump them off. Although (a bit off topic) on the subject of advanced clones and ARC troopers, I always wondered why the Kaminoans didn't just use something like flash-matrix copies of Jango's mind on them, if they were after as close to Jango as possible.

The Crimson Empire Handbook does mention a pre-Imperial life for Kanos, as I recall, although it's basically just "Kanos had a hard life that helped prepare him for joining the Empire."

 

Conceded.

I didn't know about that.

I always thought the choice that Kanos has no non-Imperial attachments was deliberate. He's a machine less than a person, at least in the Empire's eyes. Ironically, instead of the usual storyline with these "animal becomes more human" stories, Kanos rejects his humanity to continue being a murderer.

 

Lengthy training and indoctrination could account for a lack of humanity just as easily as him being a clone. Like I said, I wouldn't object to Kanos being a clone, but there's no real reason for it.

 

There is one complication with Carnor Jax being a clone: His father
has been named in Evil Never Dies. A Thyrsus Sun Guard from the Jedi
Apprentice series who was killed by Palpatine because he failed his
mission. Of course, it could be retconned that this man would be
the person Jax and Kir Kanos would be clones of.

 

Well, back when stormtroopers being clones was a novel idea. I thought it was a great way to reinforce the fact that they WERE people and not droids.

 

I thought that Kanos and Jax were clones the moment Jax's face was shown. I blamed the small differences on the different kinds of life they had lived and for Jax being force-sensitive, while Kanos is not:

We don't know for sure, that Kanos can't use the Force. Maybe the talent is dormant and Jax is only able to access it, because he was secretly trained by Lymia and Kanos was not. Aside from that, it wouldn't be the first time for a clone from an entire line of clones to be the first or only one with access to the Force (Dorsk 81).

According to the AotC:VD nobody had an idea, where the Red Guards came from, so that rules out the possibility, that some of the Blue Senate Guards were among their ranks in the beginning. Later the ROTS:VD makes clear, that they're from non-clone military units and - as the reference to the Thyrsus Sun Guards suggest - from backgrounds of Sith-cultists.

 

Which doesn't eliminate the background that Kir Kanos could be a clone or that the Royal Guards weren't replaced with clones. Frankly, I imagine that the non-clone military units would be inferior to the clone.

 

Because of this I said "in the beginning". Combined with my earlier statement about Kanos and Jax being clones it should be clear, that I have no doubt, that there are clones among the ranks of the RG. The only question would be, if they were cloned on purpose to be RGs or if they're originally clones from the Stormtrooper-Corps.

 

Good point.

I like Kir Kanos as a clone but I honestly don't like Canor Jax being one. Canor Jax is just too arrogant and imperious. Also, there's enough fratricidal hatred between the two without making the subtext into text.

and someone needs to mention to Stradley that deflecting blaster bolts without the force is silly.

;-)

(I respect the man tremendously and could never do what he's done but I just thought I'd mention that)

 

Why should they like each other?

Just because they are clones? The memories of Kir Kanos show their training, where they have to compete against each other till death. Not a healthy foundation for sympathy.

And why shouldn't Jax be arrogant? He belongs to the elite of elite of the Empire's soldiers even before he ascends to the throne. And don't forget the institutional sense of superiority many military groups have over civilians and other "mere" mortals. Officers of the Wehrmacht, US-Marines, ect., ect. . Granted, much of that might be just Hollywood trying to show us the military with its collective heads up their butts, but there is some truth to it.

 

No, *I* said I liked Kir Kanos as a clone. I also think it's cheesy that by being clones of the same source, they essentially become brothers.

As for Canor Jax's arrogance, the military is very big on the fact that you sacrifice individuality and self for the good of the group. Officers occasionally bypass this sort of
feeling but Jax has utterly skipped it.

 

Carnor Jax was specifically mentioned to have a father in the Sun Guards.

 

dont forget Nightsaber did reference Kanos as being Force sensitve, with limited types of Sense and Control type skills (I think those were the types). Being that he could affect his own performance but not up to par to affect others I don't think. This explains the blaster reflection and some of the wonderful uber fighting skills.

 

Yeah, but as mentioned above, that could easily be retconned to being either their prime clone or a GeNode memory.

 

It could be retconned, but theres little need to do so. In the quote from Randy, he actually says they were "supposed" to be, meaning that they aren't now. And with all this backstory being scrounged up, it would be a waste to say that they were now clones.

I like Kanos not being a clone, because then it really turns him into the tragic hero that we usually get with honourable soldiers of the Empire. He passes up love for revenge, others like Baron Fel get pulled into some kind of strange political spiral (he lost contact with his wife for a while)....Aldric Brandl went from being a promising actor to a slave to the Emperor.

 

What I meant was that Kanos and Jax (and all the other Imperial Guards in our story) were supposed to be clones -- because the whole emnity between Kanos and Jax was based on them being, quite literally, as close as brothers, yet one betrays the other.