Are the Sith aware of the Etymology of their "Darth" names?

And by this I mean, do they know some of their names sound a bit silly sometimes?

While LOTF wasn't my favorite series, I believed "Caedus" to be a very good name. Maybe that is because it took an outside influence in LFL to break the chain of goofy Sith names. And please don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing any authors here. After all, it seemed the tradition started in G-canon with TPM using "Maul" and "Sidious". But there are only so many evil sounding names out there. It just seems eventually it will come down to the cliche fantasy trope of naming one of the Sith to "Darth Darkevil "


So taking into account that for all intents and purposes, Basic = English, do the puns make sense to the characters from an in-universe perspective?

 

I believe they are aware of underlying meaning.

However, given the grave reality faced by those in opposition to the "Mauls" and "Sidious'" of the galaxy...they aren't exactly punchlines to them.

It's all about context...for the reader, and for the characters.

 

The answer seems to depend on which story you focus on. Some make it seem more like a Sith receives some kind of divine anointment from the dark side ether. Others, Haazen/Darth Hayze in particular, seem a lot more aware. Revan, for instance, presumably picked his own name to go with the fact he was already the Revanchist. Ditto with Alek Squinquargesimus/Captain Malak picking his to go with his already established alter ego.

Vader? Less certain. As a name that has a very ambiguous meaning, and given the way the scene is done in ROTS, that seemed a lot more like spontaneous prophetic insight on Sidious's part for why he dubbed Anakin that. I felt Caedus was probably a similar kind of situation.

 

I don't know about spontaneous...but certain not something that was entirely preplanned.

I suspect Palps kept an index of creepy names in the back of his head to proffer on new apprentices.

From about the moment he started trying to turn Anakin, he probably was thinking "Vader? Desolate? Caedus? Tyranus the Greater?" and in the moment, he picked his favorite or what he thought was most fitting. Perhaps his Sith collection brought him a treasure trove of old names...perhaps Maul and Tyranus and Vader were all things that appeared on artifacts, and he happened to peak through his closed eyes at the wall of his office and saw "Vader" and took it as providential.

Certainly not tortuously chosen...but also not completely off the cuff either, I'd suspect.

mild reverence might be the best descriptor.

 

Zor, once more, for the win.

 

I hate Darth Vitus.

 

Oh no my friend, you are mistaken. Caedus is the stupidest Sith name of all time!

The name has nothing to do with Jacen, since his strength was working with animals. The word Caedus is a shortened form of a latin name for a greek diety of medicine & healing, AFAIK, which again has no "evil" undertones & nothing to do with Jacen again cause Jedi healing isn't his strong point. He's like Darth Doctor. Compare that to Invader, Insidious, to Maul a wild beast to death, a Tyrant, & Bane of the Sith. Yes, yes, Caedus is unbelieveably stupid & in this context of other Sith names makes no bloody sense.

 

I was under the impression they picked caedus because it means "slaughter" in Latin? Plus caedere also means "to kill". Both seem pretty apt. "Mara's killer" and such.

While it is not a direct translation of "murderer", slaughter is not exactly unrelated to murder. Right after killing his aunt, "Murderer. My name is Murderer." isn't a completely unfathomable possible reason for his choice.

 

why?

 

You reached too far. Try doing the thing where you see what the word sounds like & then find a similar sounding word that it's a shortened form of...y'know like how nearly all the other Sith names come about?

[image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Image5943.gif]
Caduceus. Remember, this name was voted for by millions of kids that probably couldn't make the connection between slaughter & caedus.

 

So the thing it's explicitly said to be linked to is reaching too far, but finding some random thing and making up the idea that it obviously must be a shortened form of that, now that makes sense?

 

The guy who created the name probably made the connection, though, regardless if the people who just thought it sounded cool and voted for it did.

 

IMO, yeah it makes sense. Not that I'm an expert asuthority on it or anything.

I reiterate...Invader, Insidious, to Maul a wild beast to death, a Tyrant, Nihilus to annihilation, Vestara of evil double breasted vests, millenia of Millenial, sharp Talon & Bane of the Sith. Sith names are either a shortened form of an evil word or they are Darth "name", ie, Lord Kopecz, Kaan, Revan, Rivin, Lumiya, Kreia, Exar Kun, etc.

 

The snakes on the Caduceus are fitting for Jacen. He did make himself an amphistaff suit.

"In later Antiquity the caduceus may have provided the basis for the astrological symbol representing the planet Mercury and in Roman iconography was often depicted being carried in the left hand of the Greek god Hermes (Roman god, Mercury), the messenger of the gods, guide of the dead and protector of merchants, shepherds, gamblers, liars and thieves."

Jacen was "The Gardener" in Traitor.


This said, I remember an episode of Billy & Mandy where Grim is dissapointed a shopping mall isn't a place where people get mauled by vicious animals. Doesn't Coruscant have Malls?

 

This. Soliciting votes as to whether the boy wonder will live or die? Masterful. Asking fanboys to name a Sith, which will inevitable come down to what they think is kewlest? Laaaaaaaaame.

 

Oh yes yes... I like the idea that they were all taken from ancient Sith artifacts. The Sith artifact of "teenage-sith-wannabees-list-of-eeevil-sounding-names"

Or maybe the Banite Sith found some campaign notes from one of Exar Kun's D&D games and took all the names from that?

 

For Vader, I always thought he got the name for invader of the Jedi Temple, but that is just me maybe...

 

I think the sith wear these titles with some irony.

 

I think the important thing to remember with the Sith is probably that they're actually quite cool with the whole "being evil" thing. Like RL Satanists, their religious is primarily an "in your face" towards traditional society morality.

You have a guy who names himself Darth Murder rather than Darth Peacelove because Darth Murder sounds scarier to the people around you. The Sith are probably aware that they've got a reputation as Galactic-Level Badguys and Space Nazis.

So they exploit that for all its worth.

It's all about "I reject the chains of traditional morality. Now aren't you scared of me?!"

Sort of like the Operative from Serenity. He openly states he's evil despite following his intense moral code because it A: Helps him cope with the actions he's doing and B: Also makes Mal aware that he'll go to any lengths to do what he's been ordered to do.

Edit:

I actually also had a fun thought for an RPG. "Sidious" and "Tyrannus" could actually be Pigin Basic that got incorporated into the Sith. If the Exiled Jedi that came to Korriban spoke Basic, then their language would be mysterious and weird sounding to the Sith natives.

 

Well, technically, "caedus" (at least the Latin) is not pronounced with "a" hard c like in "caduceus". It actually sounds more like "saydus", which then reminds me a bit of "sadist". Even there I don't think I'm being totally right, as "ae" should normally sound like "i" which means it probably is more like "s-eye-dus". Think cider and add "us".

I don't really see how I'm reaching too far though. I've studied Latin so it was never really reaching on my part as the word "caedo" came to mind as soon as I saw the name.

If I recall right, I think they actually gave the meanings on the Darth Who vote page.

After all, remember Darth Taral? Where the heck did that come from? Right... "It means to protect in Sith". Uh... it does? They had to tell us that one, as we sure didn't guess that meaning ourselves.

Which has always baffled me. How did the person who submitted the name Taral have space to explain the meaning? Did he submit "Darth Taral in Sith means to protect" or something using the form? I remember there was a pretty stiff character limit though, so heck knows how he did that. I was always left rather suspicious about that name's origins.

 

Oh, my bad, Zorr. Now I understand where you were coming from. I was just looking for the simplest explanation for Sith names, had no idea you had a real latin backround. I like the Caedus=Sadist connection, don't know why that never occured to me before.

Still, Darth JINO? I hates that guy & my opinions on anything to do with it is colored with loathing & disgust. Fake arse wannabe Sith! His name is a wierd exception from from what I see as normal Sith naming conventions, being that fans chose & picked the name instead of authors or LFL staff.

Carry on with the discussion then.

 

Right. But(as a Sith) I would rather my name strike fear into people's souls because of the things I did, not because the name itself is scary.

Take Palpatine for instance. That name sounds mega-scary now. But not because the name itself has a scary meaning, it's because of the actions he carried out. Or how about (in before Godwin's law) Hitler. Again, taken away from the context of the Holocaust, not that scary. But knowing the history of evil associated with the name now is very frightening to people who are generations apart from his death.

Also, it's probably why Palpatine didn't go by Sidious all along. Because no one would take him seriously.

Calling yourself Darth Murder to me seems like pining for attention. But calling yourself Darth Peacelove then going and punching a baby out... That to me has a delicious irony.

 

In Spanish, "caer" also means "to fall."

 

As opposed to people's laughing it up against Darth Vader?

Palpatine will never be scarier than Darth Sidious because Darth Sidious is the heir to a tradition nearly 10,000 years of evil.

I disagree, it's more just demeaning what it means to be Sith. It's like calling yourself a Communist for World Capitalism. It demeans what being a Sith really is, which is something that is the boogeyman of Space.

Edit:

I guess it boils down to whether you buy the Sith's logic or not. That they actually are cool and edgy by wearing black robes, proclaiming themselves beyond normal morality, and sporitng all their scary attitudes.

I.e. whether you take Goth-chic seriously or not.

 

Well, I'll be... as the official site gave Caedus the meaning of "a battle of darkness", I never questioned that and never gave much thought to all that "in latin it means slaughter" talk either, for forum analysis doesn't trump official statement.

But actually deriving Caedus' name from the Healer aspect that Zahn originally planted in the "Jacen/Jason" name... and then someone seeing the amphistaff suit parallel right away...

You know, in a parallel universe LOTF was really great.


Regarding the transparency of the names, a few days ago I read that the Clone Wars movie novel has a joke about nominative determination and Whorm Loathsome. While I can appreciate the joke on some level, I think it doesn't work in SW, because if you deconstruct the basic rules of the universe ("people have funny names but nobody seems to laugh") nothing works anymore.

The Darth names? I don't know whether we should avoid them being transparent to the whole of the galaxy or if we should embrace it, something like the Lords carrying their powers on their sleeve. I don't think anybody would laugh at someone being called Maul, especially not if the guy looks like he can back his name up. But mostly, characters don't take telling names too serious, anyway - Han Solo has both a sidekick and (later on) a wife and kids, and once one of his kids became a loner, the expression Solo Family was set in stone, and nobody thought "cool, Jacen's a Solo and a loner", especially not the authors.