Are the true fans the ones that point out all the flaws or are they the ones that like the prequels?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by sdj, Sep 13, 2002.

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  1. Forty-SixAnd2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 1
    >How is the subject of midichlorians any crazier than something like the force? I think the subject of midiclorians allows the subject of the force to make more sense and a lot less crazy.<

    I think magic and wizardry is best left unexplained. I didn't want to know that Yoda is capable of conjuring inhuman power only because he was born with an XMen-like mutation. I feel pure, mysterious magic is more interesting than a scientific explanation for something like the Force.

    >Qui gon discovering Anakin makes the story much more rich, and gives it more depth. It would be incredibaly boring if Obi wan discovered Anakin.<

    I disagree. Can you imagine if Qui-Gon lived and was the mentor Anakin will end up stabbing in the back in Episode 3? From the moment he met him, Qui-Gon believed in Anakin and was willing to cross the council and everyone else in his life, out of pure faith he was doing the right thing for the boy. Years later, imagine Anakin growing up and spitting on him and his teachings, showing him that the Council was right all along. He would've been crushed. It would've been a sad, powerful betrayal to witness. "All that faith Qui-Gon put into Anakin when he was just a mere slave. Look how Anakin repaid all that he did for him! I hate Vader! I hate the dark side!" Kenobi should've played the role Qui-Gon did all along. As it is now, Kenobi and Anakin don't seem to be all that fond of each other. They come across as if they're suffering through being stuck with each other. When they split in Episode 3, my response will be "Big deal. They hardly got along anyway. Kenobi was guilted into training Anakin in the first place. Now they're out of each other's hair."

    >It would also be incredibaly boring if Anakin was a mean kid in TPM. Where would the story go if he was a mean kid? If he was a mean kid, why would the Jedi train him in the first place?<

    Who said he should've been a mean kid? How about just having a disturbing aura about him? How about a sadness in him, as a result of his slavery? A kind but tortured soul would've made a more interesting young Anakin Skywalker.

    >And about Jar Jar: Ok , Jar Jar is Jar Jar. You dont have to like him. In fact, I always assumed that he was meant to be annoying. In my opinion thats good characterization.<

    In my opinion, it's an awful call on Lucas' part to intentionally torture the audience. If he had to give us an annoying character, he could've at least been a little less immature when presenting that kind of comedy. And if his goal was to see Jar Jar appeal to kids, he blew it. During Halloween 1999, I saw lots of little Darth Mauls running the streets, and very few little Jar Jars. Even kids don't seem to like the goof. Jar Jar merchandise wasn't exactly on fire...ever. Except for wackjob gushers who like anything Lucas tells them to like, the character never really caught on with anyone.
  2. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    300+ posts!!!!
    SDJ, you should be proud! :D

  3. ElfStar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    Why is this type of thread even allowed? No good can come of this. It's a flame war waiting to happen.
  4. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It's very ironic that the people who are the most against Jar-Jar turn out to be more grating and annoying than he ever was.

    That's the point to Jar-Jar, that some people are like that and we should learn to tolerate those kinds of people. If you won't, then don't be surprised when someone refuses to tolerate you. For that is how Karma works.

  5. One-with-the-Force Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    It's not really a Flame War...
  6. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7
    sdj, don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed.

    46&2, who said the midichlorian theory will prove valid? Maybe it's a theory that dies with the Jedi Order? It's possible.

    Go-Mer would say that's not possible because it would go against Lucas' idea of symbiosis introed in TPM.

    Why does it demystify the Force? Midis are NOT THE FORCE.

    How did Obi-Wan describe the Force in ANH? "An ENERGY FIELD surrounding all living things."

    Now, how does he know this? How does one know it's energy and a field surrounding all living things?

    They investigate, gather evidence, and present their conclusions.

    You think he just made it up?
  7. Forty-SixAnd2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 1
    >That's the point to Jar-Jar, that some people are like that and we should learn to tolerate those kinds of people. If you won't, then don't be surprised when someone refuses to tolerate you.<

    If I want a lesson like that, I'll watch Barney the Dinosaur, not Star Wars.
  8. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Except for wackjob gushers who like anything Lucas tells them to like...

    You guys just don't get it, do you? We don't like Star Wars because Lucas tells us to, we like it because--now get this--we just like it!

    I don't understand why a segment--a faction is probably a more appropriate term--of the fan population has this selfish concept that Star Wars is for them and them alone, and they will belittle everybody they can in order to drive them away from Star Wars so they can have their "perfect" little Star Wars world all to themselves.

    I have seen new fans, intrigued by Star Wars, post on these very forums, expressing their fondness for this film series they discoverd through the prequels, only to be viciously attacked by a selfish minority and ultimately dismayed and driven away from their own budding fandom.

    The ones who are driving away these new fans, are we to believe they are the real fans of Star Wars?
  9. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Do unto others and all that rot.... :D
    We had already seen the whole "be nice to the misunderstood creatures" before... remember EWOKS?!

    The biggest problem people had was TOO much Binks. I wonder if GL really cut his screen time in AOTC out of the vocal opposition or not...
    Of course, if he did, then he's PANDERING to the fans and not creating his VISION? Right? :eek:
  10. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I'm not saying you can't like the PT, it's just not up to the caliber of work that was created in the OT, IMHO.

    I sometimes think some people are looking to take things personally...Hmmmm...
  11. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I'm not saying you can't like the PT, it's just not up to the caliber of work that was created in the OT...

    This is where we simply have to agree to disagree.
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If Lucas cared what selfish fans wanted, then he would make another ID4.

  13. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7
    "only to be viciously attacked by a selfish minority and ultimately dismayed and driven away from their own budding fandom."

    Yeah Durwood, that's why we have gushers posting in the OT forum telling us how those films were just as bad as TPM was. ;)

    And then we have gushers who are always asking others "If you hate them, why do you post here?" to a simple criticism of the PT thus far.

    Not very fan-friendly now is it?

    ;)

    We are all guilty of being plain lousy towards others. We're bitter towards those who like the PT. We're bitter towards those who do not, or don't like all of it.

    Fans are just plain bitter.
  14. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Durwood got it right. We should not drive people away smiple becasue they like the PT. Because then there will be no new SW fans.
  15. Forty-SixAnd2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 1
    >You guys just don't get it, do you? We don't like Star Wars because Lucas tells us to, we like it because--now get this--we just like it!<

    It's not like we don't hear ya. It's just that we don't believe ya. ;) The evidence suggests you're fibbing. There's no way your taste could be this bad on its own. Something else is at work. That something is a desire to be a loyal Lucas fanboy.
  16. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
  17. Scruffy-looking Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 3
    Bannable Threads, continued...

    "I predicted AOTC would make $300 million domestic and $650 million worldwide, which gives me the authority to declare that the PT are not Star Wars." [face_plain]


    I'm having a realization... those that take a "Gusher" side don't care about anything that happens in the films because they don't feel the need for any plot line to make any sense at all or to benefit the greater whole of the story.

    Huh? The reason I care about the PT is precisely because of the plot development, and how it enlarges and adds dimension to the greater SW story.

    In addition, I appreciate the progression we have seen of Anakin in the PT, from a good-natured young boy, to a brash overly confident young man who suddenly unleashes his destructive potential in a fit of rage, to what I assume will be the completion of his journey to the dark side in Ep III. As for dramatic tension, I hope you're not going to bring up that old chesnut, "GL can't show that Anakin is Vader, that would ruin the surprise in ESB!"

    As for your ranting about characterization and stereotypes, whatever. [face_plain]


    The Star Trek parallel is illustrative, for the PT bashers are a lot like those TOS diehards who bitterly complained--actually, still complain--about The Next Generation and how it ruined Trek forever, despite the fact that its first (largely forgettable) season was the product of The Great Bird of the Galaxy, Gene Roddenberry himself. It's funny, their complaints are very similar: TNG is too PC, the characters are too stiff, there's not enough action, all those kids! Of course, from what I've read on TrekBBS, the bashers of Enterprise hold a candle to no one in their bashing capacity! ;)


    I guess a lot of you don't feel the need to have personal responsibility or standards in ones work.

    A good thing you weren't addressing anyone in particular, or someone might think you were flaming... ;)


    I respect the work of those that made the Saga come to life, but I question the capability of said creator to make the best of his creation.

    I question the point of listening to the hubris of a fanboy who thinks he knows Star Wars better than its creator. [face_plain]





  18. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Thanks, Durwood. I agree to disagree.

    No, Lucas would have made Braveheart or Lawrence of Arabia or any other epic film that dealt with the human condition against a backdrop of war.
  19. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Forty-SixAnd2,

    You think I would have to be impossibly stupid to appreciate what Lucas is trying to do with the prequels?

    You do realize that when someone else sees something you can't it doesn't automatically mean everyone else is really stupid. In fact, the opposite could just as easily be true, and many times is much more likely.
  20. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    The evidence suggests you're fibbing. There's no way your taste could be this bad on its own. Something else is at work. That something is a desire to be a loyal Lucas fanboy.

    An adhominem attack from a basher in response to a well reasoned and thought provoking post. Gee, I'm shocked.
  21. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Tsk, Tsk, who's trying to flame now.... ;)
  22. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7
    Durwood, dumb post. I don't know which one, but anyway. I'm just being a typical poster on this thread and taking sides, picking winners and losers.

    Someone mentioned keeping this thread open so long as no flame war, and no basher vs. gusher thing.

    UMM.....Sapient?

  23. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Yeah Durwood, that's why we have gushers posting in the OT forum telling us how those films were just as bad as TPM was.

    Do they really? Frankly, I have yet to meet any of these fans claiming the original films are as bad as the bashers say the new films are, but if I did, they'd have a fight on their hands! I don't let nobody diss on my Star Wars!
  24. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Yes that we like SW. That is why we don't bash it. I like the Red WIngs yes I'm from MI. But do I like them because of the players no I like the team becasue there a good team. Just like SW I like for SW not for GL or any one else I like it because it gets me thinking about what if there is life out there what would it be like. I like CE and CE 2 not because of who wroite it but because of what it's about. It also shows just how good Palpaitne palyed ever oen for a fool even Anakin.
  25. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Tsk, Tsk, who's trying to flame now....

    How was that a flame? I was just pointing out that his ad hominem attack doesn't hold water. If he has a meaningful counter argument I'd love to hear it, but I'm not going to be bullied by childish insults.
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