CT Are the Y-Wings in ANH ex Republic or a new model entirely?

I've always assumed that the Y-Wings in A New Hope were basically ex Republic versions.
I'm pretty sure (but not 100%) that Dave Filoni mentioned something about them being the same model as the ones we see in the Clone Wars TV series, just with all the steal plating stripped off them by the Rebels & slight medications in performance. We know that the A-Wing and X-Wing series were developed way after the Clone Wars ended. But I'm still fairly certain that the Y-Wing was the only ex Republic fighter that carried on to be added to the main four used (A-Wing, X-Wing, B-Wing, Y-Wing) in the OT.
However, in the Canon mobile game Star Wars: Commander. We see that the Rebel Alliance has gone and re purposed many ex Republic ships & trasports to help in their fight against the Empire. These include, AT-RT's, AT TE's, AT TP's, LAAT Gunships & even some re programmed CIS Hailfire Droids & AAT-1 Hover Tanks.
Anyway, just want to clarrify this just incase I might be wrong and the Y-Wing

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According to Brian Daley's ANH radio drama and Han Solo, the fighters at the Yavin IV base were older than Princess Leia.

The Star Wars Sketchbook by Joe Johnston from 1977 clearly stated that the Y-wing fighters had their exterior hull plating stripped for increased speed and easier maintenance, thus I've accepted in good faith that what we saw in The Clone Wars is more or less the original appearance of the Y-Wing.

At the occasion, I'd also like to state that I strongly believe that the standard (OT) Y-Wing is a two seater (suggested by the Holiday Special and the Y-Wing Leia used to arrive on Tatooine in ROJ together with Threepio).

 

The Databank at least allows for the possibility that the bubble-less Y-Wing is a later model:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/y-wing-starfighter

Y-wings saw service during the Galactic Civil War, with rebel pilots respecting their ability to take a beating in combat and still return home. But these starfighters were showing their age by the time of the struggle against the Empire – many had been stripped of hull plating and engine nacelles to make maintenance easier, and models that eliminated the gunner’s turret had been introduced.

It's also a lot shorter- 16m length was based on the OT models.

Compare to the 23.4m length of the TCW model - even the long prow guns and long engine nacelles don't look quite enough to justify the extra length being just "extra plating".

 

May also be just artistic differences. If gunships and battle droids can be different from their movie counterparts, so can Y wings.

 

It's possible that the Y-Wings in ANH were a model that came out much later in the Clone Wars, but arrived too late to really be integrated into the Republic fleet. This would explain why, by the time of ANH, they look pretty dated. According to Wookieepedia, the classifications for the two models are slightly different, so they're definitely meant to be distinct.

 

the Rebels still used X-wings which were derived from the Republic so I'm sure the Y-wing was inspired by them

 

The Y-Wings are one of George Lucas favorite ships as he made them into choppers, Lucas did an interview about the A-wings, X-wings, Y-wings, Tie fighters and other ship, especially stating that the MF is a hotrod spaceship. The Y-wings are from the Republic Age, we see them in the state they are in for easy maintenance, maneuverability, and speed for hit and run attacks on the Empire.

 

The Y wing is a beautiful ship, in both its original and stripped down forms. It would make sense that late war models of the y wings would have reduced the turret. We saw the same evolution with the republic gunships where the later models had removed the bubble turrets.

 

X-Wings were made after the days of the Republic. The Republic had ARC 170's & Z-95 headhunters that they used in the Clone Wars. Which both inspired the design of the T-65 X-Wing just before the Galactic Civil War broke out. Probably due to Imperial oppression and mass production that was needed in that era, they probably wern't able to make the first X-Wing look 'Sleeker' in design. But performance wise it was better that both its predecessors the ARC 170 & Z-95 put together.

 

It always struck me as odd that the republic were using these ships that were obviously stylistically designed to be predecessors of rebel ships. Why would the Empire take a step down in ship design? I mean, sure TIEs are fast and cheap but wealth is clearly not a problem. If you look at the OT in isolation it makes perfect sense, but in terms of the saga as a whole, why would the Empire "downgrade" their entire fleet in less than 20 years.

 

The old EU explained that very well, and I'm pretty sure this has carried over to be canon still. Basically, the Empire went for quantity over quality, and didn't value their pilots lives that much since they were deemed expendable. TIEs have their advantages too: fast, hard to hit, and cheap, so the Empire could make an absolute tonne of them, whereas the Rebel fighters took a lot longer to build/maintain and were way more expensive.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, yet, is one obvious difference between a TIE vehicle and a Rebel starfighter (ANH, ESB).

The X- and Y-Wing fighters (mostly) require astrodroid copilots, TIE vehicles do not unless every TIE vehicle has to some extent a built-in A.I. copilot intelligence.
Essentially, the TIE designs got rid of astrodroid copilots.

No need for an astrodroid copilot aboard a B-wing fighter because it's an alien design, apparently from a culture not dependent on astrodroid copilots.

From a strictly OT point of view, the A-Wing looked like the first step of a non-TIE design that no longer required astrodroid copilots, but - alas - not much consideration was given to that, as A-Wing fighters existed prior to the OT already in Droids and ultimately in Rebels.

 

I figured that the ANH Y-wings were the same as the PT Y-Wings but without the armor, or at the very least the next iteration of the design.

BTW... LOVE the Y-Wings. Love 'em.

 

I always liked the Y Wing too and I think the explanation works. They get striped down because there is no time to reskin the thing every time you want to mosify it or perform higher echelon maintenance. No such thing as aerodynamics in space and facilities are in shorter demand.

I did always assume that there was a gunner in every Y Wing that wasn't a Longprobe. I think it's actually dumb not to include one in the Longprobe as well. Somebody can better monitor the cameras and sensors, as well as launch probes. It wouldn't take a person sized compartment for the reconnaissance equipment - just replace the gun turret and add what is needed to the exterior.

Because the Empire cranks out pilots in a hurry in order to police the galaxy. Those that live long enough get better and become squadron commanders. A variety of galactic threats and a reliance on experienced leaders is what dictates that the academy pilots are not trained to face all of these threats on their own - reliance on close formations is necessary both for survivability and for mission accomplishment. In my mind, most imperial pilots aren't even officers but low ranking petty officers who have spent maybe a year learning to fly before being deployed to the front.

With rebels, it's a totally different philosophy. Ships can be produced and bought relatively easily, but pilots are harder to come by. A skilled fighter pilot is harder to find and train than a cargo pilot, so crew survivability takes priority over ability to overwhelm through a swarm. Also, greater numbers aren't as importance. The rebels dictate when and where the battles will take place. An unruly or piratical system can be dealt with after the empire, whereas the empire cannot afford to lose a system it controls because it will lose face AND resources.

Just my .02 imperial credits...

In reality it's probably more that George wanted ww2 in space. In world war 2, the Zeros were lighter and more maneuverable than anything anyone else had - they could outmaneuver spitfires and even circle them until they forced them to land and refuel (and destroy them on the ground.) This was for a good reason: they were designed to fly long missions over the open ocean and between islands. The reason doesn't translate to Star Wars but the functionality of a hily maneuverable but squishy fighter does.

 

I still have my Y-wing from the original Kenner release. No, it's not in a storage unit or on special display. It's in my son's room with the rest of the toys and has been in heated combat for two generations, just like the movie. It's been in multiple environments, veering through gardens, sandboxes, lots of grassy terrain, and interior houseflight. It's even survived a crash in the bathtub. She's old and she's missing a lot of parts- but she's still ready to take on the Empire.

 

TIEs being inferior to X-Wings and Y-Wings is an element of the EU and canon that I'll never accept. It seemed clear to me that the Rebels were supposed to be the underdogs and the X-Wings and Y-Wings look beat-up while the TIEs look sleek and modern. Star Wars Poster Monthly says that TIEs are superior to X-Wings and Y-Wings. http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post6-03.jpg

The following descriptions are given:

X-Wing: Because Rebels have few resources, all ships are refurbished earlier models. Lovingly maintained, with replacement engines and body panels. Basic fighting ships, battered and stripped of all but essentials. Armed with four wingtip laser cannon. Wings extend into characteristic X-foil foraxium maneuverability in attack mode. Crew: one human pilot and an Artoo unit.

Y-Wing: Chopped and hot-rodded attack gunships of the Alliance. Body shell has been stripped aft of cockpit by Rebel mechanics for ease of access. Twin laser cannon in cockpit turret.

TIE Fighter: Sinister pursuit craft of the Empire. Technology and resources of the powerful Imperial fleet allows use of advanced ion engine propulsion rather than rocket engines. Shape (black, batwinged) enhances use of TIE Fighter as terror weapon.

 

This strength is heartening. I'm presently still trying to get to the bottom of the spherical towers on the Star Destroyers. By way of doing that I have to pass by the intersection of radar and air power. Which brought me to some cursory similarities between the Messerschmitt 109 and TIEs, high maneuverability relative to opponent, short range relative to opponent, greatest total production of any fighter type of the period. This is not the thread for such a topic, as it is about Y-Wings, and I'm not seeking a thread about fighter analogues, which would be a rabbit hole different from the continuing rabbit hole which has occupied me for two months.

One angle of inquiry would be the source of the Y-Wing itself, which would be Colin Cantwell. Part 3 thru 5 of:
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/20...o-interviews-star-wars-prototype-models-nasa/

Using Star Wars Poster Monthly as a time stamp, I would be curious when the Y-Wing was first retconned or referred to as a bomber. If I recall correctly there is a radio play where the Leia character is given exposition by some other Base One staffer on how the Y-Wings are the main assault force (i.e., more or less like bombers) and the X-Wings are the main cover or diversion (i.e., escort type, or primarily fighter type).

 

I always thought the Y Wing was a better analogy for the Bf 109. It is old and supposedly obsolescent by the time we see it, but it can use its mass as an advantage and it can do more in the hands of an expert. Let the rookies have their fancy, easier to fly Fw 190/X Wings: a skilled pilot can do more with the older one. At least that's kind of how I pictured it as opposed to Y Wing pilots just being poor unlucky bastards who have to fly the old clunky fighter.

 

Another analogy that works for me is that the Y is an F-4 Phantom, while the X is an F-16; lighter and more maneuverable, but less payload and not so tough as the older birds.

 

What would the B-Wing be likened to Sarge ?

 

Slow and ridiculous amount of firepower? I'm thinking A-10.

 

There are republic ships that also have design elements of the tie fighters, the jedi eta actis interceptor used in episode 3 and the last few clone wars season is clearly a predecessor to the tie as is are the v- wing fighters scene escorting palpatines shuttle to resuce Anakin.

 

I like Tie fighters, but the idea of the side panels existing to catch solar rays as a power augment is so stupid. If they are on a mission in deep space, you aren't getting much out of them. They should have just said that they exist for aeronautical purposes in atnospheric flight and some similar technobabble for space (just say tachyons and call it a day.)

 

Re solar panel, I had to go look up where the oldest source for this is. X-Wing book series and Essential Guide, both 1996. I cannot just by this assume that Lucas had anything to do with a specification of "solar panels". He may have, and I would love to know that. Somewhere in the TFA forum the phrase "advanced propulsion" was dropped and IIRC referred to a vintage canon source for how TIE fighters work.

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/72907/whats-the-purpose-of-solar-panels-of-tie-fighters
(And stellar neutrinos unfortunately do not bail out the idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_luminosity
"
Values of the solar radiative luminosity do not include the solar neutrino luminosity, which would add 0.023 L☉.")

Re Y-Wing, Rinzler Making of Star Wars p38 says Lucas specified to Colin Cantwell that he wanted a space fighter analogue of a "TBF Torpedo Bomber", with a lower tail gunner, upper tail gunner, and forward facing pilot. Joe Johnston was hired to adapt and redesign Cantwell’s models into something that could show up on blue screen and had more bulk for armatures, mechanisms and lighting. So Johnston’s version of the Y-Wing removed the bottom tail gun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_TBF_Avenger

 

West End Games also called them "solar panels" in The Star Wars Sourcebook, published 1987.