Saga Are they a Vader or a Palpatine?

I've seen several threads where it is debated whether Palpatine should be a cartoon villain or with more depth added. That made me wonder which Star Wars villains are more dimensioned (Vader is an obvious one) and which are more one dimensional, cartoon like. Share your thoughts here.

 

I would completely disagree with Palpatine being seen as a 'cartoon villain'. He has as much depth, if not more, than Darth Vader.

The philosophy underpinning the Galactic Empire is a complex array of military might and psychological subjugation: only the most twisted scholarly mind could create such oppression. Palpatine is the sole reason the Empire exists, it is controlled by his will. This in itself is complex and very political.

We see Palpatine as this evil leviathan of power, despite this, his past is unlike the typical fairytale villain upbringing. We know that Palpatine came from an aristocratic family that hailed from an opulent world. The dichotomy between the two is unparalleled in the Star Wars universe.

Finally come Palpatine's machinations. Playing a facade of a gentle and compassionate politician; yet wielding the most destructive powers ever seen. He's slowly breaking the galaxy and reassembling it to how he sees fit. Whilst simultaneously gaining the apprentice he has always wanted, using and planning the death of his current apprentice, and finally, the death of the Jedi Order.

Palpatine- The most multidimensional character.

 

Palpatine pulls puppet from behind. He tricks people. He's a mastermind. He could use people for his own benefits. And he let Vader and other people do the dirty work. But he must have also done cruel things. Vader described him in RoTJ that "The Emperor is not exactly as forgiving as I am"

Yes, excatly this

 

gg is a cartoonish villain and it's great. he's a great general and loves to tell everyone about it but won't hesitate to run from battle in order to survive. he's a great warrior but he's also a coward who only thinks of himself. he's more of the mustache twirling type of bad guy who tells you his whole plan.

 

That's a character that's very
-intelligent
-calculating
-adaptable
-manipulative
-deceitful

Not multi-dimensional. Multi-dimensional means personality, inner-conflict, etc.

 

All that does require a multi-dimensional aspect. That essentially defines his personality; he is more than evil. Read the Tarkin novel and you will find out about the Emperor's end goal: more complex than any characters'.

I can't understand how anyone could dismiss this, so my question to you: Why do you think the Emperor is not multidimensional?

 

Grievous is very much a cartoon villain. Unfortunately, he's not a very good one.

 

For the reasons I already described. His personality and goals are not complex, even if his schemes are. He's more archetype than person, even more than your average Star Wars character. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I like him the way he is.

 

Palpatine is about as one dimensional as Grievous. He really is basically a pure evil bad guy doing evil things evilly for evil reasons. It's just the archetype he happens to personify is a more cerebral chess-master manipulator and schemer than Grievous' dirty-coward brute characterisation. Palpatine's schemes are multi-dimensional in that he is accounting and planning for multiple eventualities at most points, but Palpatine himself has no depth at all. He wants UNLIMITED POOOWWWAAAHHHH and gets it by trickery instead of brute force.

 

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, I will always think of Palpatine as the most complex character in the saga. I have read and looked into him too much to dismiss this analysis. I hope you also come to realise this and reconsider your assumption.

 

I have considered it I assure you. But just because he plays the role of benevolent Chancellor of the Republic and Wise Uncle to Anakin does not mean he is ever actually either of those things. They are just roles he plays to get what he wants, which is power. Taking ultimate control of the Galaxy is literally the only thing he truly cares about, he uses people and then gets rid of them the instant they are no longer useful - Dooku replaces Maul, was replaced by Anakin, who would have been replaced by Luke if Palpatine had succeeded - like I say, means to an end, and no more.

And as for his background, well... 'evil aristocrat' is at least as old as Shakespeare and probably around a lot, lot longer than that as a literary archetype and certainly in real life.

His plans are complex. His character is not.

 

An analysis of Palpatine if anyone is interested.

 

A summary of Palpatine:



He's a fun character. And whilst he is very, very flat and basic, he is a particularly pure and true example of the megalomaniac villain archetype. His scenes on the Second Death Star make him one of my all time favourite villains in anything. But complex? Nope.

 

I would agree that the ROTJ Emperor is quite one-dimensional, but if you actually take time to analyse his ROTS dialogue and plotting there is quite a lot going on.

 

Seriously, give the script analysis a read, it might change your mind. Palpatine in TPM and pre-transformation in ROTS is layered. He never says anything without some hidden motivation.
I would agree he becomes simpler when "Unlimited power" happens and the facade is dropped, though.