Are they trying to destroy Bantaam Era?

QFT.

There was a Star Wars tale story about Leia and her Jediness that was really good. I had to summarize for the folks over in teh canon left, canon right thread.

 

You mean standards that let his students die, him not stepping in and stopping his nephew from dying, and his eldest nephew from going to the Dark Side, or pulling his son away from JINO? Those standards?

 

Get back on the meds, Saiya.

 

It's an honest question, though. Are those the standards you say Luke raised the Order to that didn't make Leia a Jedi anymore?

 

Your question makes no sense, man.

 

Those are the standards Luke seems to have Raised the order to-Complacency, child negligence, and low intelligence. So...that is why Leia is no longer a Jedi?

 

[image=http://www.noseque.net/wordpress/media/imagenes/house.jpg]

Dr. House says: "No meds for you!"

Seriously though, guys, you don't need to be starting an argument here.

 

Thats possible a slightly... narrow view to have on the changes to the Jedi Order since PoT. I mean there is the new Temple on Coruscant (or should i say old temple? ) the Ossus academy, with its various training schemes, the new Jedi Council, the new ranks for children before they become padawan's, the way the order had to change in the NJO was huge, going from almost militaristic, to almost a 'grey' view towards the end (Potentium, misguided, whatever your take on it was), these all affected it greatly, and i'd hardly say its all been negative.

 

All I was saying Leia was still considered a Jedi in HoT and the following YJK series. And then, six months later, she isn't one? And then in Swarm War, she gets promoted to the rank again? Even though she should have been a Jedi Master by the horrid Vector Prime?

 

Was she really?

You have to realize, Luke's first class was graduating after about two years of vague group instruction. It was pretty much "show up and graduate". Then things became a little more stringent and a little more intense eventually until we get younger training, reinstituted one-on-one (or one-on-two) Padawanship, and a much longer ten-year training program.

The standards for Jedi training keep moving up, and as they go, they move beyond Leia's level.

 

Leia casts battle meditation and force storms in DE. Those are difficult powers that usually require powerful Jedi lots of training to use. I might be wrong but I don't recall those techniques being used by any other NJO members, and that's including Luke.

If that's still not good enough for Luke's standards, I don't know what would be.

 

You have to personaly kill 10,000 dark jedi actualy.

 

In Ambush At Corellia, Luke and Leia dueled for a bit and she beat him. He told her, basically, "You're a Jedi." She was a Jedi! Heck, she should've been instructing Saba, for Force sake.

 

In theory, maybe. In fact, no. She didn't keep it up. Getting around Luke's defenses once doesn't make you a Knight and it doesn't make you a qualified teacher. It just means that Luke just said, "Screw it, good enough. It's not like she's ever going to get any better."

Now that's a good point. Then again, she is a Skywalker. Leia certainly has the raw talent, she just hasn't trained enough to use it consistently.

 

Being told informally that she's a Jedi and actually having it confirmed are two entirely different things. Like at the end of YJK at the ceremony. The heroes (Jacen, Jaina, and the YJK crew) were confirmed as 'heroes' of high gallantry but they weren't actually Jedi Knights.

As for 'erasing' the Bantam era, I see the Bantam characters and planets used a lot. The NJO books (and the Force Heretic books in particular) managed to include almost every Bantam character, planet, race, and organization into the conflict. In my opinion, DR is trying to erase the NJO more than the Bantam books, in fact, they're actually trying to provoke a 'dark Bantam' feel with LOTF, right down to the simple good-vs-evil plotline.

 

No using DE to establish force-ness/Jedi-ness. Yeah, i know it's canon and all, but...it is not good.

"Hi, i'm Palpatine! Let me zap you so you can become Dark Jedi! Let me zap your fighters so they can somehow become better! Let me zap-teleport the ultra-powerful son of the Chosen One across the galaxy! Zap! Zap! Zap!"

Sorry, i apologize. I just lose it sometimes at the mention of DE.

Besides, DE is what, 10 ABY? We never see Leia have anything resembling even close to that power in any comparable time period (or any time later either). The point was already made, but Leia basically pulled back from her Jedi training periodically, and even began to stop referring to herself as a Jedi Knight. It makes sense that she pulled back as she focused more on the diplomatic side of her life (and heritage, for that matter). And i think that Tales story that rumsmuggler summarized in the other thread should definitely be canon (if it isn't yet), since it does go a long way towards explaining another facet of why Leia pulled back.

Besides, i do have this theory that part of the reason Luke is so strong in and with the Force is due to Leia not embracing her Force-heritage as fully as she could.

 

Interesting.. I'd like to hearyour theory sometime.

BTW: I like DE I and II. Empire's End not so much though.

 

Though it's moved away from the original topic, I wanted to weigh in on the Jedi Ranks thing...

All the stuff that's been said has actually been acknowledged in the books (in my opinion). Though not what I consider the finest hour of the books, the Dark Nest books address this to some extent. Luke realizes that the Jedi are going way to far off the center (to either side) and he lays down the law: You're either a Jedi or you're not. No more 'I'll get around to the training when I feel like it.'

As for Leia, until recently, her power has gone up and down. I tend to look at it like a professional athlete. Even if you're at the top of you game, what happens during the off-season? If you don't keep up the work, then you're going to fall behind. Training camp is gonna be a bear when you have to get yourself back in shape. Leia does some really strong Jedi work (say, in Dark Empire), then she sets it to the side and works as a senior senator, then Chief of State. Can't imagine there's a lot of time for studying your belly button (aka meditating) while trying to run a government. "Use it or lose it."


As for Del Rey trying to 'destroy' Bantam...I don't know, I think they're just working to make the stories a little tighter, both within their own books and with the Bantam-era novels. I'm not going to debate the success or failure of their work; regardless of what is done, some people will like it, some will despise it. Doesn't change the fact, though, that this is the intent - to merge the stories into a tighter whole, not to destroy what came before.

 

Santa's drow elfs aside, in what way has Bantam books been Hutted? I want to see some point form examples, not generalised this and that, please.

 

It's still formulating to a degree in my mind, as i'm only barely halfway through the NJO right now, and that works into it. Basically a twin-thing, so an analysis of Jacen/Jaina would figure into the theory (and quite possibly incorporating Anakin as well, expanding it beyond the twin-dynamic). But in a basic nutshell with respect to Luke/Leia, it would have to do with how a child decended from the Chosen One would be endowed with near-limitless power, but as the child was twinned, the power-potential was divided equally between them. Leia clearly never embraced her Jedi-ness for quite some time (mainly since she never knew of it), while Luke did. That "well" of inherited Chosen One-power (as a deep a well as there could be) was then being drawn on almost exclusively by Luke, cultivating his power and making him into the uber-Jedi he became. Meanwhile, the "well", being extensively drained by Luke, left Leia with less to draw on -- which in turn may have led to why she did not/has not felt the calling of The Force as strongly as Luke has, despite them both being borne of the Chosen One.

Like i said, i'm still kinda putting it together in my mind, so i'm not sure if it's making sense as i write it compared to it in my head. I guess the simplest idea of it would be a sibling Force-pool -- that a given family has a sort of limited Force-potential access. That's oversimplifying i think, but it's something like that.

But i've hijacked the thread enough, sorry...

S'okay, not a crime. Half of my hatred for it is really that it had so much potential and good ideas in it, but turned out much less than it could have been. Why we need a DE novelization...

 

That's pretty interesting so far.

I would buy a Dark Empire novel(s) if they ever made it/them.

 

It's more of an abstract theory at this point. It started formulating in my mind as i was reading Balance Point and thinking about how Jacen's decision not to draw on the Force may have strengthened Anakin & Jaina's force-ness in a way. From there, the Luke/Leia speculation began. Again, i don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but what other Force-user siblings have there been? There was the tribal brother and sister in DE (their names escape me at the moment), but we barely see any of their potential.

Same here (a duology would work best, methinks). As i said, there were some good ideas in the series, but just not IMO presented well/fully enough. And i'll let alone the art-bashing and poor dialogue construction.

 

I liked the art style, but i'm pretty out there at times. I don't own DE II or EE but I have the audio book of the DE series. It's pretty wild.

 

For me, it's not actually the art style i dislike, it's the horribly off-model character drawings. I did like the subdued color-scheme (it fit the story's tone), and the large battle scenes are done well for the most part.

I'd be interested in checking out the audio-version. Am i correct in understanding they used official sound effects and music and such?

 

Gotcha..

Yep, they used the sound effects and music.