Are TIE Fighters REALLY that bad? (Fleet Junkies welcomed)

We've all heard the descriptions of the TIE Fighter: cheap, no shields, easy to kill, no good unless they outnumber an enemy 10:1, etc.....

...but, even in the LOTF Era, where more advanced fighters (A-10, I-7, Preybird) exist, TIE's are still being fielded by ALL sides in great numbers. Even the Imperial Remnant is still using them after decades of their "shortcomings"....

What gives? Are TIE's the fragile eggs that the Rebel/NR/GFFA pilots (esp. Rogue Squadron) claim? Or did the TIE fall prey to the same guys who said the Rebel X-Wings were held together by bailing wire & the Force?......

Thanks in advance.....

 

IIRC they aren't 'THAT bad', as you put it. Even the older models had better manueverability than X-Wings. Folks like Rogue Squadron vaped them left, right and center, but they were elite pilots.

 

I think to fully answer your post we need a TIE Fighter series. Until that point, no comment.

-The Rebel Gungan

 

I think to fully answer your post we need TIE Fighter: Empire.

I believe the current TIE designs are shielded?

 

My understanding is that they were perfectly functional fighters designed to be a good blend of maneuverability, speed, firepower, and (most notably) ease of production (speaking primarily of the base TIE fighter of course). What they lacked in durability they made up for in other areas, looking from a "big picture" strategic perspective. They were effective at screening starfighter threats from larger craft, which was their primary role.

One-on-one, other fighters might be superior, but they were also harder to produce/more expensive. They might not be the most protective craft around, but they almost always have superior numbers and definitely have cost-efficiency. I would even argue that the "average" Imperial pilot was likely more skilled than the "average" Rebel, both as a consequence of better formal training and the fact that they had to make better use of their crafts' strengths while minimizing their weaknesses. Certainly, elite pilots piloting superior craft will mow through TIE Fighters with average pilots by the dozen, but those are the elite. I don't think there's anyplace in the collective fiction where the Rebels completely discounted the threat posed by TIE fighters, for example.

And of course, once you get into the TIE variants, you come across some of the most formidable Starfighters in Star Wars canon. I'd be hard-pressed to think of a Starfighter that surpasses the overall superiority of the TIE Defender, even in the timeframe 25-35 years after its' inception.

Though admittedly we've rarely seen a comparative breakdown of the later model X-wing "stats" so to speak.

 

The only thing I like flying better than the Defender in TIE FIGHTER is the Missile Boat. That kind of missile capacity means its a Capital Ship killer.

 

I always played the game with unlimited ammo. Made everything a lot easier. Gratned I was like 10 or so at the time.

That game was so much fun though.

-The Rebel Gungan

 

The Tie/ln is faster, more maneuverable, cheaper, and easier to maintain than the X-Wing strike fighter. It fulfills the role of an Imperial short-range defender perfectly, outmatching the possible strike-units of the early Rebellion era, and despite the Rebel-centric EU, is an even match for the X-Wing strike fighter.

Although later Tie models such as the Interceptor, Avenger, and obviously the Defender were superior units, the original Tie/ln is the perfect mass-produced short-range defender, and fielding millions of them is more cost-effective and tactically significant for an Empire which defines power projection from the deck of a Star Destroyer than any other design.

The notion that Ties are fielded with a swarm mentality that demonstrates the Empire?s devalued sense of life is Rebel propaganda?they are great units.

 

Did Jello change his username?

 

TIE fighters were awful fighters for the Empire's needs because they're ships that can only be effectively used by Elites. A Tie fighter is awful for swarm tactics, that they used, because they didn't have shields or heavy weaponry that would render them effective against capital ships or even light ships (like the Falcon). Also, it hampered the speed and maneuverability that they were so famous for since they were supposed to stay in formation.

Elite pilots like Baron Fel and company could make them into Rebel killing machines but they were just sitting ducks in groups.

 

Err...

Tie Fighters are not strike fighters, they do not target capital ships, and they are a threat to light vessels like the Falcon or your basic Imperial Shuttle.

And the much vaunted shields of Rebel fighters lasted about three seconds longer than Tie armor did in the movies...

 

<--Tie Fighters are awesome

lol, but in all seriousness, the more I look at the Star Wars fighter craft, the more the TIE Fighter philosophy makes sense to me. It worked well for the Republic V-wings and Jedi Starfighters (the Jedi flew them!) during the Clone Wars, and the only thing they probably needed were some shields to increase pilots' survivability. I mean, if you took an X-wing and removed the missile launchers, removed the hyperdrive but kept the shields, how much more effective of a dogfighter would you have? Not every single mission the X-wing flies is a deep-space strike sortie, so those things may not be necessary. If you can put up a dozen TIEs against a 4-man X-wing flight dropping out of hyperspace to smash your convoy, then you can't be doing all that bad.

 

Exactly. The TIE fighters are launched from ISD's, and they have more than enough firepower to deal with just about any other ship in the galaxy. TIE fighters are not designed to go head on against a capital ship, but to draw off fighter screens, although you do have ships like the TIE bombers which I would think could make runs on capital ships, but on the whole, an ISD vs just about any other ship is simply no contest, unless I'm forgetting some outstandingly powerful ship on the rebels side.

There are scenes in the movie where the TIE fighter dog ships like the medical frigate, but obviously a med firgate is not going to be as protected as a combat ship.

One interesting note is right at the beginning of ANH, there are no fighter screens out chasing down the blockade runner because the ISD is able to take the ship out with a few volleys.

Also, for all their shields, the X-Wings blow up REAL good when a TIE gets a solid barrage in. We see this over and over again in the movies.

People are forgetting that the Rebellion needed ships that had a snowball's chance of inflicting damage on ISD's and holding off TIE fighters for at least a few seconds, and even then it's often a very, very close race as to who gets in the lucky shot.

Rogue Squadren is the only group that on a regular basis takes out TIE fighters in numbers, and as someone else pointed out those are elite pilots. For their intended purpose, the TIE seems to be an excellent frame which spawned multiple versions such as the already mentioned Tie/in and bombers and Defender and so on.

Jim

 

Yeah, TIEs aren't so bad except compared to the people WE SEE piloting the Rebel craft.

Sure, they have no shields and are thinly-armored comparatively, but they pack a wallop for ships that size and are incredibly fast and maneuverable.

 

After hearing people's comments in this regard based on old VGs...let's get something straight.

Those games were not true simulators, and to take a grasp for any craft based on them would be a bad idea. First off, if it were a true simulator, anyone flying a TIE would be immediately fragged...just because the learning curve in a TIE is super high. Second, once someone became supremely proficient in the TIE, the game would be unbalanced...the advantage rebel pilots always had was their unusual and cooperative tactics...sans those in a simulation environment...a TIE is gonna own you (unless you have a SW universe simulator, yourself).

On paper, with equally matched pilots...a TIE will own a rebel craft...even the vaunted A-wing if toed with an interceptor.

The shields give a "great" pilot one forgiving moment...they give a good pilot a single chance to rethink...they give an average pilot a prolonged death.

A ship sans shields gives a "great" pilot focus, a good pilot, a challenge, and an average pilot the quickest death at minimal expense.

 

I think what it comes down to is this:

Imperial starfighters are more specialized, while Rebel/NR starfighters are more all purpose.

All the Rebel fighters short of the A-Wing can be used to take down capital ships, all the Rebel fighters short of the Y-Wing are effective dogfighters.

On the Imperial side (excluding the super expensive models), TIE fighters and Interceptors are purely dogfighters. If you try to take down a capital ship with a group, they're dead. Bombers are the capital ship busters. But put they're toast in dogfights.

 

I like to think of Ties vs Xwings as something like the U.S. tomcat versus the Russian Mig. (Yeah, I'm mired in the '80s.)

The Tomcat is tough, has superior instruments and armor, and has more firepower, but the Mig is faster and more maneuverable usually.

I'd say Tie Fighters are more dependent on pilot skill to overcome their shortcomings while Xwing pilots can sometimes let their ships superiority overcome their shortcomings.

 

You are serious? Every piece of EU states that X-Wings are superior to normal TIE Fighters in almost every way! They are slightly less maneuverable, but, shields keep you alive, which means you survive more encounters, which means you become a better pilot. TIE pilots get one mistake, and then they are dead, and then the Empire has to train new pilots. X-Wings are superior in terms of armament, capable of 4 linked lasers to the TIEs two, and X-Wings can carry missiles and torpedos, TIEs can't. X-Wings are maneuverable in atmosphere, TIEs are about as non aerodynamic as you can get. Sure, they can forwards and backwards, but in atmosphere, good luck getting them to turn. Those flat wings create incredible drag. In addition, from the side, TIEs present a much larger profile, hitting a TIE wing is like the side of a barn. Regular TIE fighters do not have hyperdrives, which means they must rely on capital ships to transport them, if the capital ships get blown up, or flee before they can be picked up, they are DEAD. X-Wings don't have that problem either. They can hyperspace out immediately, without having to wait for a capital ship to give them a ride.

They may go a few klicks faster, and turn slightly better, but those advantages in no way make up for their inherent weaknesses. TIEs are disposable fighters for an Empire with plenty of disposable pilots. Why does the Defender kick ass? Because its got 4 linkable lasers, missile capacity, hyperdrive, and SHIELDS. The Defender is a superior fighter because they corrected the weaknesses of the TIE. Sorry to say it, but, X-Wings are vastly superior to a TIE. TIE Fighters are better named DIE Fighters.

 

Except in TIE Fighter, where TIEs do own.

 

Wait a minute, I distinctly remember a thread with this exact name. What happened to it?

 

G-canon > EU. The movies clearly do not show a massive superiority on the part of the X-wing or any other rebel starfighters. Refer to ANH where TIE's were more than capable of wiping most of the Alliance craft. Most Alliance starfighters are in general terms a better craft one on one, but they are multi-role craft while TIE's are as noted, short-range defensive platforms.

 

Hahaha. If I had a dollar for every time I heard the "Some vague implication from the movies overrules everything that ever happens in the books" argument, I'd be rich.

 

G-canon > EU. The movies clearly do not show a massive superiority on the part of the X-wing or any other rebel starfighters. Refer to ANH where TIE's were more than capable of wiping most of the Alliance craft. Most Alliance starfighters are in general terms a better craft one on one, but they are multi-role craft while TIE's are as noted, short-range defensive platforms.

That means nothing. They don't directly contradict at all.

 

I always kind of assumed that, unless otherwise specified, that the TIEs mentioned in the more recent books were some of the more advanced models like the Avenger or the Defender. In the NJO, the Defender seems to have come into more common service. With the Empire undergoing a bit of a resurgence from the end of the Vong War to the "present," it only stands to reason that thier high-end fighters would become much more common.

And aren't there some EU sources that mention Thrawn working to replace the TIE/ln with the Interceptor? If anyone has thier copy of the original Essential Guide to Vehicles, I think it's in there.