Oceania Are we really the sporting nation?

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Protege-of-Thrawn, Dec 1, 2001.

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  1. Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2001
    star 6
    recent updates for those who don't know:

    1) Mundine knocked out cold in world title bout.
    2) Australia defeated against all odds by France in Davis Cup, tennis, 3-2.
    3) New Zealand in command of third and deciding cricket test against Australia, on Aussie soil, against world champions.
    4) Australian Socceroo's denied World Cup dream after defeat in Montevideo, score line from series 3-1.
    5) What more? possibly many more fields in which we are failing.


    So the question is: are we truly the world champs in sporting terms?
    Or is our arrogance without justification?

    I can say my patriotic pride is suffering from such a string of heartbreaking defeats.

    your thoughts.
  2. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    Are you saying you wanted Mundine to win? Pfft. I want a vid cap of the referee counting him out. Wanna hear a strong rumour? He'll suit up in the red and green next year after he packs a sad and quits boxing, blaming 'certain elements of the media.'

    The Davis Cup loss rests with one person and one person only. Pat Rafter. I can't stand him, never have. I know he's a great tennis player and all but he isn't a team player. The biggest mistake he made was getting the Poo put out of the squad, and you can count on it being his fault. When we won the Davis cup two years ago, who won it?

    But his decision yesterday to play was even beyond me. We have Todd Woodbridge sitting there on the sidelines twiddling his thumbs and he's been a part of the one of the greatest doubles teaming ever, yet our man Pat wanted to go for it yesterday and hog the glory and he stuffs his shoulder forcing Wayne Aurthurs into the pressure situation of winning or losing the Cup. I feel so sorry for Aurthurs. He'll be forever remembered as the person that lost it for us, while in truth it was lost yesterday by the glory seekers.

    Bad form Pat. I'll bet his sister will be on the Today show tomorrow morning with Steve having a cry. I hope he does retire, at least we'll get the man who won the last Davis Cup in the side.

    The cricket is a worry. It'll be an embarrasment to lose this one. The top order needs to perform more frequently. Gilchrist deserves a promotion.
  3. Teknobabel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2000
    star 5
    It'll be bad form after the first two tests being so damn screwy
    That first was in the bag till the weather came about
    The second wasn't much better, worse still the rain made a mockery of boonies plan to push 38,000 throught the turnstiles of the ground over 5 days

    But the best thing about matches in perth is that they finish at 8:30 in sydney :)
  4. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5



    I love sport.



    I can watch it for hours.
  5. Astaroth Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2001
    In answer to the question, I really hope not
  6. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Why, oh, why, can't we be the "Small-things-that-have-many-apparent-uses-but-actually-don't-work-really-well-at-one-particular-thing" Nation? It'd sure be a damn sight more useful then being the Sporting Nation.

    I'm sick to death of the emphasis of every aspect of life being on sport. Yes, one can pass one's HSC - an intellectual and academically based element of an educational carreer - by kicking around a stuffed pig's bladder.

    I am constantly annoyed at people who are unable to even spell the word "literacy" being awarded trophies and treated like heroes, all because they excel at throwing small white spherical objects at vertically mounted poles. These people are given more limelight than people who strive in their school careers to acheive something worthwhile in their lives; perhaps studying a variety of sciences so that their research in later years may benefit medical science, or the understanding of the Universe. Or people that learn to paint like masters, creating lucious images, seething with beauty and power that captures the emotions and inspires others. People who learn to write with a fluency and personal quality that penetrates into the imaginations of others.

    But, no. Unfortunately acheivements that can shape humanity and further the progress of the human race towards harmony and understanding are overlooked, because some students can run really well.

    Even the media gives a mass overexposure to sport. Turn on the TV on a sunday - Extreme Sports on Seven. Motor Racing on Nine. Football on Ten. Soccer on SBS. The History of Cricket on the ABC - tell me, what is the benefit of watching events such as these? Do we learn moral values? Does it stimulate the imagination? Does it inspire someone to do something, apart from consume copious amounts of foods of questionable nutritional benefits, and yelling words of dubious dictionary definitions at the small glowing box in the corner?

    I believe not. Sport is entirely useless, except to gain physical benefits, and even then it need not dominate an entire existance - a 15 minute walk a day will do most people perfetly well.

    Australia certainly is the sporting nation, and I am thoroughly disgusted with the concept.

    Thank you for your time ...
  7. Grizzly Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2000
    star 4
    Here Here Gecko!!!! :)
    that's the reason I don't even bother with FTA tv anymore...

    As for that horse race in Melbourne... don't get me started there.... the Labor Premier over here (Perth) is thinking of making it a bloody public holiday!!!
  8. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    I can't get enough sport. Pile it on TV for all I care. Forget the midday movies on the weekends! Pack on MORE replays! More live stuff. Soccer and Basketball need decent coverage too you know!

    Then I'll go out and play sport. Basketball, tennis, football, cricket or for just a run. Yeah, you can walk for 15 minutes a day if that's all you can do. But for a real adrenalin rush you might as well do something.

    I'm sick of literacy masters like Steinbeck or Hemmingway getting nobel prizes while Steve Waugh's latest epic masterpiece will be in the bargain bins in a years time!

    WHO IS WITH ME?!?!?!?!

    Let's stomp out nerds forever! We can do it! We have the physical prowess!

    YEAHAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
  9. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Have to agree with Gecko, there's far too much emphasis on sport.
    But I don't think you can diss ppl for not liking sport or loving it, it's as much an obsession as anything else.
    But unfortunately, because of the amount of different spectator sports vying for coverage, it does seem to be everywhere you turn.
    In the end, the ability to play well in a game doesn't do a whole lot for your future unless you're exceptionally good at it.
    Also, it serves to place a clear division in the case of students, where in schools there is clear devotion behind a team, and all the encouragement and teacher attention on students performing on the sportsfield.
    Energy that is lacking when it comes to arts and drama students.
    Sports all fine as a diversion, or something to do, but I think the government could find a few better things to do with our taxes than sponsor sport.

  10. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    Sport gives people something to get behind. Olympic events struggle for any coverage until every leap year, and when they do come around the government is repayed by the athletes who give their constituents something to talk about for the next 4 years.

    As for sport in schools, surely no-one is against that. I couldn't even imagine anyone knocking it. With a country full of gameboy playing, TV watching, Harry Potter reading fat kids, they need to run around somewhere.

    To call a sports fan or competitor a poorly educated fool, or simply lucky with their genes is as easy for me to call non-sporty types fat, lazy and boring.

    There's as much emphasis on sport as people want to see. I can't get enough sport. I'll watch anything. And I'll get up at anytime to watch it. I'll walk to the club to watch a league game that doesn't involve my favourite team. The gym I go to will have the NBA coverage on cause they know I'll be wanting to watch it while I have a run. I'd only get Pay TV for the sports channels.
  11. Astaroth Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Sport is our nations distraction

    It takes much of the public's attention off important issues which need to be dealt with

    An easy distraction covering the corruption behind much of society

    By all means, the sportsmanship and such is a good thing, but how much of that is really portrayed in the sports shown on television?

    And how much financial reward is given to those who dish it out?
  12. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Funding dedicated to sport could easily be dedicated to other, more useful areas. I would, for example, love to see a privately funded organisation to fund beginner filmmakers' projects - but of course, large corporations capable of providing such funding to improve another much-loved area of entertainment are waylaid by their preoccupation with sport.
  13. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    Why should governments and organisations put good money into things that they aren't going to have good exposure in? If people didn't get their monies worth out of sport then they wouldn't put their money into it in the first place.

    I thought for a second you were going to get all noble about diverting sport's funds for a second, but begining filmakers? How is that more useful for society?

    Sportsmen are paid what they're worth too. Just like accomplished filmakers, actors, writers, scientists and everything else. You won't ever here a struggling footballer in reserve grade whinge about their earnings, so why is it you continually here young doctors and scientists whinge about their opportunities? If you do the hard work in either area, then you'll get whatever you deserve out of it.

  14. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Actually, Doctors and Scientists have to exist primarily on measly grants offered by governments, and on small funds offered by companies. I also refuse to see how several years of University study and an incredible mind that's able to think out solutions to problems that have inhibited humankind are on par with the ability to throw balls at hoops.

    As far as Filmmaking, it happens to be my passion, and, like watching Sports, it can be classified under the entertainment area (though I prefer to classify it as an art). Filmmaking is an area that I am unable to get into because of finnancial reasons. I had a friend who was an extremely good netball player, and she was given a government grant for future training and education at some sport institute. Me? I have to try and balance doing my HSC with finding a part time job so that I *might* have enough to take out a loan to do a directing course at NIDA or another Film & television school.

    Sports are just as useless/useful to humanity as films, possibly even less so, because Film allows for creativity, self-expression, and conveyance of morals and ideals. Also, on a worldwide scheme, both are just as profit makingas each other, and just as well-received. Look at how the Lord of the Rings managed to boost the entire economy of New Zealand.

    I still cannot see how sport can possibly be as useful as many Australians seem to make it out to be.
  15. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    Community togetherness, social spirit. Things like that are very important. A film, no matter how good, will not unite an entire community. Successful movies like Star Wars will always have an element within society, as will fans of say, Citizen Kane. But they live relatively smally when you look at the community as a whole. Only a few hundred can see a movie at the one time, whereas 90,000 could see a sporting event.

    When the Knights won the NRL this year there was literal rejoycing in the streets until sunrise and beyond. The Australian community spirit is a very important thing. It gives everyone something to talk about and remember. One of those "where were you when..." situations.

    Then going back about 15 months you had the Olympics. An event which not only enthrawls crowds at the event, but millions around the world. The mind of an athlete in this situation is incomparable to even the smartest scientist. These people have worked 4 years (some more) to have 1 minute to prove themselves. Add the pressure of other competitors, crowds and television and you've got all the ingredients for the best drama show on television.

    Films are great for what they are. I don't mind them being called art, but the art is in entertaining. No-one is going to enjoy any form of art if it isn't entertaining in some degree.

    Andreas Serrano is an artist, he's not entertaining, but his work is very curious, hence his success.

    Back to films though and a comparrison with sport. In sport it all comes down to the one moment. But films are going to be less exciting to me straight off because the element of surprise is not there most of the time. You can tell what's coming up, or pick twists and whatever. A sporting contest can be won by anyone on their day. Making a film you can also perfect your art. Have another take or edit pieces together. Sport on the other hand has that element of mistakes and heart break.

    Everyone here is selling athletes short too. It's sad really. When I was younger I had the misfortune of being run over. When I was in hospital I had visits from sporting identities from the area including my sporting hero. The visit alone lifted my spirits more then what any doctor could do. They use their profiles for good reasons most of the time. They're not brainless zombies like a lot of you would like to believe. What about all the charity work they do for hospitals and less fortunate people? They're well aware that they could have been in a less fortunate situation.

    I wish you goodluck in your chosen field though. My brother is in a similar situation to you too. He's moving to Sydney to find work and continue his passion in life. His chosen field doesn't get much help from Governments either. It's hockey. But you won't hear him whinge one iota about it at all since he's doing what he loves and he's determined to do whatever it takes to make it.

    And like everyone, life is a struggle. You have to take every lucky break you get, but to have those opportunities everyone has to work hard. That goes for footballers, actors, doctors and porn stars. Everyone has to pay their dues.
  16. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    I recall earlier this year when the grand final of some football/rugby/other game was on. I was travelling home from an employment interview in the city when I found myself suddenly caught in the midst of a brawl in the train carriage I was in - a brawl between supporters of teams.
    I was lucky enough to have been standing near the exit of the train when the bbrawl took place, so all I had to do was swear at people when I had a full grown man thrown at me. But there were other bystanders who were knocked down and injured in the carriage.

    I have never seen a brawl such as this take place over any other issue. Sport may create a union of people (as do films - there are millions of people who view films every year, and are tied together by a wide fanbase. You're posting at a union created by such right now ...) but it also creates a fierce copetitive streak in people that stimulates them to take a course of action as dramatic as violence, in many occasions. Just take a look at Soccer brawls in Europe ...
  17. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    Wow. Doesn't anyone play sport any more?

    Here's a quote I found which says what I want say, only more eloquently:

    Australia is recognised internationally as a nation involved in sport. Sport and recreation is an integral part of Australian culture and there are many benefits associated with participating in sport and physical activity, including enjoyment, social interaction, health, personal achievement, national pride and community involvement.

    In many ways sport unites and personifies the nation. Interestingly, we competed internationally as 'Australia' in sport before we federated as a nation. Sport and recreation can be a whole-of-life activity, and is an important part of a well-balanced lifestyle.

    I remember the day we lost to Uruguay, I was at the bus stop waiting, looking really glum. Someone saw the look on my face and said "got up early to watch the beating, did you?" We then had a great discussion about it and I learned a lot about this total stranger!

    We love sportsmen and women because there was a time when we were young that we aspired to be like our heroes. No kid wants to grow up to be Howard Florey -- it's just not romantic enough.

    "Wow, did you see what Florey did on the weekend? He discovered penicillin! Wicked!" (n.b - I now he didn't *really* discover peniciilin).

    Anyway, I could ramble on and on about this...
  18. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Um, when I was 9, I wrote a letter to Steven Spielberg telling him how he inspired me to pursue the field of film directing when I grew up. And my inspirational figure to this day is Tim Burton.

    So, yes, people can idolise non-sporting people.
  19. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    Wars are being fought on things like the Koran as we speak. Hardly, a great advertisment for books. Mein Kampf is another book that isn't exactly a great influence on people.

    It's a problem with some areas of the world, where sports are taken too seriously. Rugby League has a problem with a certain element of the community, it's no secret. It's also un-Australian. I'm sure you'd agree most sports fans are like Silmarillion has just described.

    Religion and politics would have caused a lot worse incidents then sport has.

    Movie makers and actors have been accused and written off the same way sports stars have been. How much does Harrison Ford get for a movie?
  20. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    -- So, yes, people can idolise non-sporting people.

    I never said they couldn't.
  21. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Sil - you implied that fields of a non-sporting nature were unromantic. Uh, what about acting? I know there are literally millions of people who idolise actors. And I know a greatmany people who are inspired by scientists - one of my very close friends gets her inspiration in her chosen field of Chemistry from Marie Curie. Science is highly romantic - just think of Astronomy! Gazing into the Universe to unveil the secrets of life itself!

    Wedge - I've no doubts that Politics and Religions have caused far more destruction than Sports. (although I'm actually an Atheist and also have little faith in world politics, so that shows my viewpoint on that issue) However, I don't believe that it is right for a nation to hold high and proudly something that give people the motivation to take violent actionm - OVER A GAME! Over something that isn't real, and has no physical consequences in the real world whatsoever! Both politics and religion affect the standard of living - is that not worth fighting for? Some people seem to think so. I merely believe that Sport has no real impact on people's values, aside from obstructing them from other goals.

    As far as filmamakers being overpaid - that's also true. Why else would I attempt to get into the field myself? :)

    However, films have a big impact on people's beliefs and morals. By creating films, you are presenting to someone an idea with meaning behind it, and by being exposed to that idea, they are inclined to think on the issue. If presented correctly by a good director and writer, films can be made to capture people's imaginations and thoguhts, and convey ideas to people that they usually wouldn't think about.
  22. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    I don't think actors are overpaid either. If they weren't worth it, then they wouldn't get it.

    Wars are worth fighting for if they're fought for the right reasons. I've read Mein Kampf and I fail to see any truthful reasons for the way of life being worth fighting for in that book. It's full of crap.

    I know people go overboard at sports. But the discussion of this was about Australian sports. Not English soccer fans or Columbian soccer murders or Indian cricket bookmakers or even small ethnic groups in Sydney. I'll never cry over a sporting result, but I'll never cry over a story or movie either. It's all a big soap opera to me.

  23. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    I've been moved to tears by the plots of several films, such as Schindler's List.

    My opinion of Australian Sport, overall, is that the nation dwells too highly on it. For something that has so little affect on the well being of the nation, the morals of people, and the quality of living, an awful lot of fuss is made about it. I just believe that it's time to focus on more worthwhile elements of society than sport, and stop wasting the people's money on something so useless.
  24. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    I think discussing this matter over two forms of entertainment is a waste of disk space (not to mention time). 99% of people like movies, it's the type of movie they like where they differ. 99% of people would like sport too. It's just they're preference that differs as well. It'll be the same equation for music.

    I'm sure you watched the Olympics. Would I be wrong? Give credit where credit is due. If anyone spends years defining their abilities while juggling their home and family lives, they deserve credit. That's whether they study, train or work.

    Like you pay your money and time to see every Tim Burton movie made, I'll spend mine on watching my own idol. As will many others.
  25. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    I was on set of LOTR when the Olympics were on. I never watch sports on TV.
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