ST Are we sure it's 'Episode 7' ?

Well, Alien started off kind of like a slasher film, so just adding a number is one thing, but "Episode" implies it is part of one work. I just think that the movie would stand on its own better if it was just like the opening scrolls in the games (and the original opening scroll) that had no episode number. It would be taken on its own merits much more easily, rather than being judged in terms of how well it fits with the theme of all the other episodes. Given that Kathleen Kennedy wants each director to have their own personal message in each film, it would make sense to consider each director's body of work different stories within the Star Wars universe. Because if not, one director can completely contradict the message or theme of another, and the whole thing becomes scattered. From a creative standpoint, what KK described is more akin to an anthology, like Twilight Zone, where different story tellers comment on society from their own personal point of view. I don't think it would undermine TFA. In fact it would help me accept it more on its own terms.

 

Isn't that what Anthology is for? The episodes are one story, telling the tale of different generations of one family. The anthology films are for different stories (which I'd prefer to be completely unrelated to the episodic entries (or "The Saga")).

That's how I always understood it anyway

 

That's exactly what the distinction is for.

 

A couple of points:

1. TFA, as well as Episodes VIII and IX, will be thematically tied to I-VI and treated as a progression of that story.
2. Disney specifically wanted to make a sequel trilogy--it's easy to sell and is a good way to kick off their take on the franchise.

You seem to think this being a sequel to ROTJ will hurt expectations. I disagree. I think it'll get bums in seats.
And Kennedy said that she wants JJ, etc. to make it personally relevant, which is different to thematically disconnected. The story group is there, in part, to make sure each film is still part of a unified vision.

 

Probably the same people that will say things like "wow Luke looks so old"

Or "why is Tatooine called Jakku now"

Or "I miss Jar Jar"

lol

 

I would also suggest that the presence of someone like Pablo Hidalgo would ensure that there is a strong sense of continuity/ evolution as well. I'm not suggesting he's making the calls or in a position to enforce anything, but clearly KK and co feel he brings something to the table as well - you only have to watch Rebels or read some of the new comics to see there is no Night of the Long Knices planned for the PT. They are not scrubbing anything out of existence, nor should they.

 

Pablo said in the VF interview:

 

Exactly. The intent has always been clear - "honour what's come before, while taking things forward". There is nothing as yet to contradict this statement (unless people seriously want to take issue with JJ's JarJar gag).

 

Incidentally, George's number one intention was to sell the company and let others continue Star Wars.

 

Quite. He wanted others to take on the baton. If he didn't want the "tragedy of Darth Vader" - which only came into being when he decided to move forward with 1 - 3 anyway - to continue he shouldn't have sold.

 

One quick point - while we are openly acknowledging that what Star Wars is "about" has been in flux, and that we're currently seeing the "saga" as being the story of multi generations of Skywalkers, I think it's worth pointing out that the true difference between the numbered episodes and what will be the Anthology stories is that the saga is basically the important, Galaxy changing stuff - the things that will go down in history - while the Anthology will be stories that take place within the universe, sometimes with familiar characters, but which use the rich universe as a way of telling stories that couldn't be told anywhere else, without having to be epic in scale.

 

Well, now all of them are personal films to the filmmakers. I don't think the story group is enforcing the continuity of Lucas' philosophical intentions, just continuity in general.

 

Your evidence for this is...?

Kathleen Kennedy:

 

There'd be no point in NOT calling it episode 7. We're not gonna get a "George" movie at this point. If you called TFA an anthology movie, in hopes of someday getting the "real" episode 7, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Might as well call this one ep 7, jump on the Star Wars train, and take a ride....because George got off back there <---

 

I can't. I can accept Lucas got off the train, but I can't accept that it's still the same story. The Star Wars train stopped, and a new one was built and started going. I didn't get on. I don't know where it's going, but even if I like where it goes, it's still not the same train. If Han dies, it's just like when I heard Chewbacca died. It doesn't count to me at all.

Disney eliminated the canon hierarchy, so there's no "G-canon" in the story group, but as for the intentions of the author, G-canon is still valid. An author's moral rights trump copyright in international law, so what the author says goes. And even if Lucas says this is canon to him, it doesn't matter to me because my headcanon is only G-canon.

There's just no way I can accept a story by JJ Abrams as a valid Episode of Lucas' saga, no matter what mental gymnastics I try to do. It's totally impossible. I know Lucas wrote stories, so those are the ones I'm much more interested in, even though I am curious about these. When JJ calls it Episode 7, I'm just confused why he is doing that. It doesn't convince me in the slightest that it's actually a sequel to The Phantom Menace.

 

It's the "Ship of Theseus" paradox, the "Is it Pink Floyd without Roger Waters?" conundrum. In other words, when a key member of a creative team leaves or is replaced, can the team still legitimately make a claim to being the same entity? Even if they continued with that former member's blessing (e.g. Genesis post-Peter Gabriel)?

I say, yes. It still sounded like Genesis after Gabriel left, though his absence was illuminating. Sure, you may end up like Pink Floyd post-Waters, sounding like an anaemic version of your former selves, but it's still not a totally different entity.

The point being, this is not a different train, or a different ship or a different band. Indeed, in one sense, you're a different person to the one you were a decade ago, given the different neural pathways you've formed over time, but it a deeper sense, you're still you.

In any case, it's totally different to the old EU, where a completely separate creative team was involved.

 

OK, here we go: The Force Awakens is Episode VII. That is a fact. Any discussions back and forth about this have been fully laid out on all sides already, and this thread is just going nowhere at this point. The "Lucas and his treatments" thread is still open... for now, anyway. But this one is done. Locking.