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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Are you Liberal, Conservative, or Independant and why?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by MasterDillon, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. MasterDillon

    MasterDillon Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Simply put are you Conservative, Liberal, or Independant, and why?
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Independent. Summation of my views in three short paragraphs:

    I am strongly pro-peace and strongly pro-same-sex-marriage. I am also strongly against corporatism. Those are my hot-button issues, along with ensuring that every child in America gets the best education possible (now that's the closest we'll ever get to "equal opportunity"). I am against any policy that concentrates the majority of the wealth into the hands of a few people but I am not a fan of the concept of "redistributing the wealth" either--again, I'm a fan of equalizing opportunity, it's up to the people themselves to take advantage of it.

    I have no love for guns but I also don't think that gun control laws solve any problems. My stance on abortion is the same as Bill Clinton's: safe, legal and rare. And I would add "first trimester only unless the mother's life is in danger."

    I generally lean with the Democrats, not because I think they have all the right ideas--I don't think that at all--but because the GOP in recent years has been exceedingly pro-war and exceedingly anti-separation of church and state.

     
  3. keynote23

    keynote23 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2006
    I'm fully aware that not all conservatives are as described below. I'm stating that once now, here so I don't have to keep doing so throughout.

    For myself, I am who I am. I notice that my views seem to be similar with those traditionally considered liberal but that is a coincidence.

    I'm not a conservative because I frown upon how many conservatives arrive at their opinions which I describe below (which is based on personal experiences).


    1. A lack of empathy
    Conservatives tend to have markedly less interest and sympathy for the positions of other people. In their view
    -people who are starving are only suffering because they aren?t working hard enough
    -if a conservative can accomplish something (or even merely believes he could) they don?t see any reason why you shouldn?t be able to as well and thus are less likely to extend any help regardless of your circumstances

    Both views are the product of extremely limited perspective and thus more often than not wrong and worse tend to contribute to major miscarriages of justice.


    2. One-sided, fear-driven gloryhounds with little capacity for shame or regret
    Conservatives love to toot their own horn. Our founding father were patriots, we served in World War II, we landed on the moon first, we forced the USSR to dissolve, etc. while simultaneously ignoring the black marks on their records (i.e. the extermination of the Native Americans, the Monroe doctrine, the My Lai massacre, the use of agent orange).
    To a conservative, this?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agent-orange-dead-deformed-babies.jpg

    and this?.
    http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/4105426

    ?are perfectly acceptable and nothing to regret because ?if you don?t support the war, you don?t support the troops? after all (one of the most disgusting catchphrases they ever coined).

    Thus their views tend to be based on a deliberately manipulated history which extols their virtues and ignores their sins. Conservatives don?t do guilt. That would require the strength to look into the mirror and examine who they are. They don?t have that kind of backbone and thus their intellectual honesty is always in doubt as is the righteousness of any action derived therefrom.

    3. Insecurity
    Conservatives love to ride off the accomplishments of their ancestors regardless of how little they as individual people may have actually accomplished themselves. It makes them feel bigger than they are. This is at least partially brought on by their insecurity. They have an unwillingness to ask hard questions which makes them more ignorant. As a result they feel more at a loss when faced with complex issues and mounting evidence against them which makes them feel increasingly uneasy. Like a scared child running for it?s parents, insecure conservatives are quick to stand beside the Rush Limbaughs and Fox News stations of the world who, like all bad parents, reassure them by constantly telling them they have no faults and any anxiety they may feel over anything is always the fault of the other guy.

    And of course there?s always God to turn to who can ultimately offer them reassurance that in exchange for their servitude and enforcing his will, he will make everything hunky dory one day and maybe even punish those who are making them feel anxious.

    Opinions stemming from this kind of twisted, fear-based, demographic would merely be pitiable were it not for the fact that democratic systems regretfully give the most abysmally inept and cowardly men power equal to that of everyone else and that those votes can affect matters of military policy.


    4. Intolerance
    The natural by-product of a sense of superiority is the view that others must therefore be inferior. As a consequence of their desperate fear-based, need for self-aggrandizement, conservatives are less apt to view other cultures or opinions with any respect and thus are more likely to embrace hostile acts towards them because after all, blowing off the heads of a bunch of people be they man, woman or child is more palatable when those people happen to be your obvious cultural inferiors (neve
     
  4. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    If anything, classical liberalism or such. Rights of the individual and all that.
     
  5. kingthlayer

    kingthlayer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2003
    I'm not sure what I am, but here's a few things I believe in:

    + Gun laws should be implemented at the state level.
    + Gay marriage, abortion rights, etc implemented at the federal level.
    + Pro-FTA
    + Anti-tax loopholes for large corporations and millionaires
    + Pro-amnesty immigration/integration
    + Pro-regulation of the financial and oil industries.
    + Pro-government run health care
    + Pro-tax hikes to close budget deficits, provided the economy is growing strong enough to support it.
    + Pro-nuclear stockpile reduction
    + Pro-offshore drilling as long as it meets safety regulations
    + Pro-nuclear energy
    + Pro-government incentives to promote green technologies
    + Not a fan of the TSA, wire-tapping, etc.
    + Lukewarm on organized labor. I appreciate that it helps get nurses and teachers a fair shake, but at the same time they basically force employers to keep lazy, horrible employees. I worked at a private school overseas where the teachers union forced the company to keep a creepy, borderline pedophile guy for an extra six months, when he should've been fired.


     
  6. GrandAdmiralPelleaon

    GrandAdmiralPelleaon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    I like the Americentrism in the opening post.
     
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    He's 15. An explanation that "liberal" and "conservative" are very different in other countries, might be worthwhile though.
     
  8. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    I am both a classical liberal and a federalist.

    On the federal level, I tend to lean more conservative and favor very limited government. On the local level, I usually swing quite a bit more liberal. (For example, I have voted straight Democrat in local elections, neglecting the one race that had an unopposed Republican, and I've voted straight Republican in federal elections. I've also done a mixed ticket in each.)

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  9. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    I?d consider myself an Independent that?s currently aligned with the U.S. Left. I?m of a mind that certain basic services like education and health care (including mental health) should be part of the ?social safety net.? OTOH, as I?ve said on other occasions, social security needs to die, die, die.

    I consider myself ?pro-military,? in that the military serves a valuable service not only for internal security, but also to prevent other nations from becoming too aggressive. OTOH, I?m opposed to the notion that any single nation should be the world?s police. The U.S. doesn?t need to (and can no longer afford to) spend more than the rest of the world combined on ?defense.?

    I think businesses need to be regulated inasmuch as there are certain employee and environmental safeguards that need to be enforced, and some way of interceding and breaking down companies when they reach megacorp status. Competition is a good thing, and ?too big to fail? should be synonymous with ?too big to exist.? I have no problem with companies being wildly profitable, but I think there needs to be a set multiple by which the highest-paid person in the company exceeds that of the lowest-paid.

    The reason that I?m presently aligned with the Left is that right now, I deeply disagree with the methods and mindset that currently dominates the Right.
     
  10. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    I'm a Pat Buchanan on foreign policy

    We should look, too, with a cold eye on the international set, never at a loss for new ideas to divert US wealth and power into crusades and causes having little or nothing to do with the true national interest of the United States. High among these is the democratist temptation [free the world], the worship of democracy as a form of governance and the concomitant ambition to see all mankind embrace it, or explain why not. Like all idolatries, democratism substitutes a false god for the real, a love of process[political pragmatism] for a love of country. The true national interests of the United States are not to be found in some hegemonic and utopian world order. Bush holds global democracy as a goal. This is a formula for endless conflict.

    If we had used the end of the cold war as an opportunity to dramatically scale back our military commitments around the world, we would not today have the deficit problem we now face.

    Otherwise, I'm a social democrat of the classic European variety: successful societies have economies that are a public-private partnership between corporations, individuals and a strong government. The government's job is to support social cohesion through policies that promote a strong middle class and as broad a sharing of the nation's wealth among its citizens as feasible within the context of a welfare/capitalist hybrid state. There will always be rich and poor, but societies get to decide how rich and how poor, and how big a gap between the two and whether there is anyone in between. For the last thirty years, Americans have not chosen wisely.

    The case is closed on the value of socialized education and medicine. The best, most advanced democracies on the planet have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt how indispensable universal healthcare is for achieving public health policies that lead to better healthcare results for its citizens.

    I typically vote democrat without much hope or high expectations. I respect Mitt Romney for what he did for healthcare in Massachusetts, just as I continue to respect Obama for his achievements in advancing national healthcare, despite its political cost to him and the democrats.

     
  11. Gonk

    Gonk Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    These are my stances. Let the labels fall where they may:

    - I support gun control.
    - I support limited socialism, with government involvement in essential services only. When you get problems as they have developed in Greece, you've gone too far.
    - I support practical taxation
    - I support VERY limited application of the Death Penalty (serial killers who are absolutely guilty and likely to re-offend are really the only use for it)
    - I support RE-active war, coming to the defense of allies who have been attacked and populist revolutions in autocratic states.
    - I support pro-Choice, but it's not like the debate thrills me
    - I support gay marriage
    - I neither decry nor support drug legalization: what works best? Go with that, I don't care. Not worth my time otherwise.
    - I am an atheist, but am not evangelical about it.
    - I believe in loyalty to principle before loyalty to family, when the principle is important enough. We know people by their deeds, not their names.
    - I believe "sending a message" to be a worthless phrase with little to no meaning.
     
  12. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    I'm conservative when I'm grumpy, liberal when I'm happy.
     
  13. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Leftist-libertarian, here. Anti gun control, pro abortion, pro universal health care, and pro reactive war pretty much sums me up. Of course, there's exceptions; I don't think Iraq was a bad move, but I don't agree with the notion of lying to people because you don't believe telling them the truth is going to work.
     
  14. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi

    Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2002
    I'll take Gonk's answers as they fit me best.

    Thanks, Gonk!!
     
  15. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I'm an Independent (which is really more of a party affiliation), but liberal-leaning.


    Government should be strictly-defined and limited and fiscally-responsible, but I also think that a strictly-defined and limited government should include universal healthcare and national infrastructure.

    Government should definitely respect our privacy, and stop trying to enforce other people's moral opinions on us when there is no harm being done.


    One day, I hope we can achieve many or even all of these things without the government, so the government can shrink into invisibility. But today there is a great need for government to help society achieve many things, and I don't see how they can be done without government.

    After all, government is really just made up of people... individuals doing things together what they could not achieve on their own.



    01 * I support Balanced Budgets, with surpluses eventually turning our debt into a real treasury of savings for any future crisis... but I know that balanced budgets can't always be achieved in times of war and recession, and an amendment could give the unelected courts power over fiscal policy

    02 * I support moderate Entitlement Reform (if we're going to keep the current system, then the rich should pay in more, and the retirement age raised) as well as Pension Reform on the state and local levels

    03 * I strongly support Tax Reform, that extremely simplifies the code, lowers rates, but raises more revenue

    04 * I strongly support (fiscally-responsible) Universal Healthcare; it is a public good, ensures equal opportunities, strengthens the workforce, and should be considered part of the Right to Life (and I would support tort/malpractice reform too)

    05 * I strongly support upgrading, maintaining, rebuilding and building new and modern Infrastructure (it's a public good, and government built it in the first place)

    06 * I strongly support bringing back Manufacturing and "Made in America," and developing an Exports-oriented strategy

    07 * I strongly support Energy Independence, even better if we do it through clean energy technologies, electric cars, and public transportation

    08 * I strongly support that our vital natural resources (food, water, energy, metals) should be sustainably managed, decrease waste and clean-up pollution, have a clean environment for the public health as well as to preserve wildlife... I believe in animal rights, especially for pets

    09 * I strongly support our military and maintaining our military dominance, some bases need to be closed but not all, spending must be cut but intelligently, we mustn't retreat from the world... but we must prohibit armed or intelligence-oriented mercenary/private organizations like Blackwater/Xe

    10 * I supported the War in Afghanistan until Osama bin Laden was killed (and knowing how and where he was killed, by special forces in Pakistan)

    11 * I oppose the War in Iraq (it's time to get our troops out of that hell)

    12 * I support the War in Libya (Gadhafi and all mass-murdering dictators must go), especially how it's being conducted without American troops on the ground

    13 * I support our sanctions against North Korea and would support South Korea if it ever came to war

    14 * I support strong ties with India, Russia, China, Latin America, and the Muslim World and keeping our strong ties with Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia

    15 * I strongly support working to resolve the potential hotspots around the world, Peace is in America's interest, from Israel/Palestine (can't be one-sided here) to China/Taiwan/Tibet/Xinjiang/InnerMongolia, to India/Pakistan, to Russia/Georgia/Ukraine, to North/South Korea, to restoring order in Mexico and Somalia/Yemen... and maybe support a (green) economic development plan, similar to the Marshall Plan, for the developing countries

    16 * I support Free Trade agreements, they are the best way to get rogue countries to come into the mainstream (see what's happened with China, as opposed to Cuba and Iran)

    17 * I support common-sense Im
     
  16. Darth_Asabrush

    Darth_Asabrush Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 21, 2000
    I am a Liberal Conservative because Liberal Conservatism is close to my ideals.
     
  17. Vezner

    Vezner Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    I actually agree a lot of Darth Ghost so I?ll just give my thoughts on his list:

    Government should be strictly-defined and limited and fiscally-responsible, but I also think that a strictly-defined and limited government should include universal healthcare and national infrastructure.

    I agree for the most part except for the universal healthcare part. I just don?t feel like it works after looking at how other countries have used it

    Government should definitely respect our privacy, and stop trying to enforce other people's moral opinions on us when there is no harm being done.

    Agreed.

    One day, I hope we can achieve many or even all of these things without the government, so the government can shrink into invisibility. But today there is a great need for government to help society achieve many things, and I don't see how they can be done without government.
    After all, government is really just made up of people... individuals doing things together what they could not achieve on their own.

    Agreed but I also think our current government is too large and too intrusive in our lives.

    01 * I support Balanced Budgets, with surpluses eventually turning our debt into a real treasury of savings for any future crisis... but I know that balanced budgets can't always be achieved in times of war and recession, and an amendment could give the unelected courts power over fiscal policy

    Agreed. However I don?t think another stimulus is what we need right now. I think the best thing government should do right now is get the heck out of the way of the private sector.

    02 * I support moderate Entitlement Reform (if we're going to keep the current system, then the rich should pay in more, and the retirement age raised) as well as Pension Reform on the state and local levels

    I agree except for targeting the rich to pay more (unless you support a flat tax, which I do agree with).

    03 * I strongly support Tax Reform, that extremely simplifies the code, lowers rates, but raises more revenue

    Again, I support a flat tax.

    04 * I strongly support (fiscally-responsible) Universal Healthcare; it is a public good, ensures equal opportunities, strengthens the workforce, and should be considered part of the Right to Life (and I would support tort/malpractice reform too)

    I believe that health care should remain private but regulated. When has the government ever been able to run anything effectively without the misuse of funds and rampant corruption? Having said that, I also agree that health care needs to be fixed because the price of basic care is insane. I don?t know the answer but I do think that our legal system (and the constant threat of a lawsuit) is part of the reason for why costs are so high.

    05 * I strongly support upgrading, maintaining, rebuilding and building new and modern Infrastructure (it's a public good, and government built it in the first place)

    Agreed but I also caution that it can?t be the only means to take us out of recession. It?s great for the short term but doesn?t fix anything in the long run.

    06 * I strongly support bringing back Manufacturing and "Made in America," and developing an Exports-oriented strategy

    Agreed.

    07 * I strongly support Energy Independence, even better if we do it through clean energy technologies, electric cars, and public transportation

    Agreed, though I think it?s premature to rule out the drilling for oil. I think ALL forms of energy should be used. I also think that trying to kill our use of oil during a recession is a VERY bad idea.

    08 * I strongly support that our vital natural resources (food, water, energy, metals) should be sustainably managed, decrease waste and clean-up pollution, have a clean environment for the public health as well as to preserve wildlife... I believe in animal rights, especially for pets

    Agreed unless you go to the level of PETA. Those dudes are nuts.

    09 * I strongly support our military and maintaining our military dominance, some bases need to be closed but not all, sp
     
    Darth-Ghost likes this.
  18. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    On paper, I am a registered Democrat, because I like to vote in primaries. Beyond that, I don't think labels make much sense, since they just facilitate pigeon-holing and polarization.

    Broadly:

    + I am pro-gun control, but am also in favor of responsible gun-ownership. I think reasonable limits on what firearms one can own exist. If you can demonstrate that you can be responsible with a handgun, then get a license for it, and more power to you. But there is no plausible need for armor-piercing rounds or automatic rifles.
    + I believe a woman has a right to control what happens to her body, but like most Americans, I'd like to keep abortion safe, legal, and rare.
    + I believe in responsible educational policies, meaning scrapping NCLB, as it has devalued skills like comprehension and critical thinking in favor of regurgitation.
    + I believe in single-payer (universal) health care, because it has worked very well in other countries, and they generally enjoy better health outcomes than we do (being an academic, I'm happy to provide lots of citation - :) ). This is part of a recurring theme: I'm not wedded to any particular U.S. institution just for the sake of tradition, if someone is getting more bang for their buck than we are, then it's worth exploring and potentially changing our system.
    + I believe in free-market principles for free-market goods, meaning that some things should not be considered free market goods (like education and health care).
    + I believe in reactive and coalition war - a just cause gets others on board.
    + I believe in progressive taxation - in a social contract, greater success means greater responsibility to the society in which one has prospered. We are all interdependent for goods, services, and benefits. No one succeeds absent that social contract, so "self-made men" tend to be forgetful that they were helped out, too.
    + I believe in evidence before opinion, so I dislike both MSNBC and FOX News, which has that order switched. Demagoguery isn't reporting.
    + I believe in gay marriage - if two adults want to formalize their union under the law, go for it.
    + I don't believe individual conscience allows one to discriminate against others.
    + I believe in responsible drug legalization (i.e., marijuana), but not drugs with heavier outcomes (cocaine, methamphetamines, heroin, etc.), with the same restrictions we place on alcohol (i.e., private use, not public, and especially not when it will impact others through one's professional responsibilities).
    + I believe in a strong central government, and limited states' rights. There are simply some things that have to be nationally regulated (there is, for instance, no reason at all why Texas should have such an impact on national education, and the fact that some states are trying to introduce creationism into the public science curriculum is abhorrent).
    + I do not believe in American exceptionalism, as I believe it is extraordinarily arrogant, short-sighted, and ignorant of historical trends.
    + I believe putting people back to work is more important than reducing deficits, when given a choice between the two.
    + I believe in a responsible and sustainable relationship with the environment. Economic growth is meaningless if it is not environmentally sustainable, and a loss of biodiversity impacts human health.
    + I believe that we have responsibilities to non-human animals. The differences between us are differences of degree, not differences in kind, so if you shouldn't do it to a toddler (which have about the same intellectual capacity and ability to communicate), then you shouldn't do it to an animal. Consequently, medical research on animals must be humane and necessary for the betterment of human and animal care. I do enjoy a good steak, however, so I'm trying to reconcile this idea with my omnivore nature.
     
  19. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    I formulated a rule for my children when they were toddlers and decided stomping bugs was fun: "If you kill it, you have to eat it.*"

    I see this as a valid rule for sustainable hunting, which I support. Personally, I've fished and slaughtered a few chickens. I don't eat much red meat, but I would slaughter a pig or cow if I had to for dinner.

    Or, put another way, don't kill anything you're not willing to eat.


    *maybe needs a cannibalism exception, but could cover whaleship Essex style problems.
     
  20. PRENNTACULAR

    PRENNTACULAR VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2005
    I'm a liberal because I'm a Christian.
     
  21. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    I'm sorry, but that doesn't necessarily follow according to logic.

    You can form solid Christian arguments for either liberal or conservative positions. What, specifically, about your perception of Christianity makes you a liberal?

    For example, you could argue that the principle of the tithe (literally the tenth or 10%) suggests that if God only asks for 10% of our income, government shouldn't be able to demand more (a more conservative argument). On the other hand, you could claim that because Christ taught to give to the poor and needy, government should be generous in its benefits (a more liberal position).

    You can't argue that one is Christian, and the other isn't, as they are both supported by Christian doctrine, and yet they can lead to completely opposite political positions.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  22. PRENNTACULAR

    PRENNTACULAR VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Yeah, I didn't say that I am a liberal because Christianity is liberal, or because all Christians are liberal. I am a liberal because my persona interpretations and experiences of the Christian faith lead me to believe that the government should be generous in its care for people, and that pro-life is generally the best stance to take on issues of violence (i.e., pro gun control, anti-death penalty, anti-preemptive war), and that freedom of choice is the best stance to take on civil issues (pro choice, pro gay marriage, etc.).

    Not saying any other Christians have to think what I think, but I think what I think because of my faith.
     
  23. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    I'm a liberal because why the hell not? There's more to it than that, but let's focus on that little bit.
     
  24. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2000
    As opposed to private corporations?

     
  25. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Prior to the 1980's? Pretty damn effectively. It wasn't until the last 30 years that distrust of the government and the government started becoming truly ineffective. Which is why I won't vote for Republicans who supposedly hate the government; I wouldn't hire a babysitter who hates children and I won't vote for someone who hates government. Elect someone better and more willing to do their job if you want an effective government.

    But I guess that doesn't sound so good to the segment of society that thinks corporations can do no wrong or that want a 'government they can easily drown.