Are you upset that Anakin didn't fall in lava?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by brook_33, Jan 6, 2006.

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  1. darth_krumbum Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    it wouldn't make sense for him to fall into the lava. if anyone, force or not, was to fall into a pool of lava, they would die instantly. more than likely their lungs would be charred by the super-heated air around it, and all tissues would more or less melt down to the molecular level. the way it was done was the only pluasible way for him to recieve such disfigurment.

    as for gollum, the lack of expression is quite in line with what would actually happen. in essence he was dead the moment he hit the bottom of mt. doom. the slow sinking was done for dramatic effect and further's the idea that no one would wish harm on the ring. he tried to keep it out as long as possible, and i always took that look on his face to be one of incredible pain and the fulfillment of his every wish for the last hundred or so years. one last look at the only thing he loved, even though it had horribly corrupted him.

    in film, both those scenese work fine for me.

    peace,
    Krumbum
  2. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    A: It?s about Ben and Luke?s father and Vader when they are young Jedi knights. But Vader kills Luke?s father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in 'Star Wars,' and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That?s why he has to wear a suit with a mask, because it?s a breathing mask. It?s like a walking iron lung.

    - George Lucas in conversation with Paul Scanlon, in a Rolling Stone article entitled "The Force Behind George Lucas," from August 25, 1977

    Oh, no ? he?s a liar!:p

    In all seriousness, it is not as though it?s uncommon for people to change their minds when it comes to determining the specifics of something, in this case a particular scene from a film, especially through the passage of time.

    To respond to the question being posed in this thread, I quite appreciate the manner in which Anakin?s 'demise' was negotiated by Lucas in the picture; he made the scene gruesome enough to get the point across, and yet not so overwhelmingly graphic that it would been completely repellent (i.e. the 'fire-extinguisher' sequence at the beginning of Noe?s "Irreversible") or inappropriate given the greater context and tone of the material. Anakin?s immolation completes the tragic arc of his character?s descent into repugnance; additionally, it serves as an extension of the pervasive satanic allusions that are woven into the picture?s narrative. Initially, we have the entreaty between Palpatine (Mephistopheles) and Anakin (Faust) in which the latter figure essentially trades away his soul for the prospect of metaphysical alchemy being offered by the duplicitous Chancellor. Shortly thereafter, Anakin is dispatched to the Mustafar system to slaughter the Separatist leaders; Mustafar is a crimson, volcanic environment enveloped in dark, Stygian imagery that is more or less consistent with the thematic concerns that underlie the picture?s primary narrative issues. The piercing finality which emanates from the image of Anakin lying atop the sand bank, his body gradually becoming engulfed by flames, becomes an almost Dantean passage; we see the corporeal matter being eroded from Skywalker?s being, as the fallen Jedi is consumed by his own hatred and evil. I am not convinced that Lucas would have been able to achieve this same effect had he decided to show Anakin actually falling into, say, a volcano. The fact that Anakin?s body would inevitably submerge beneath the lava would make it difficult to: a) show the gradual evisceration of his skin in a manner that would fall within the parameters of a PG-13 rating; and b) portray the incident in question while having us believe that a person would be able to withstand that level of trauma and stay alive long enough to be rescued.
  3. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
  4. brook_33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 4
    "I didn't kill him, the lava and the fall did."
  5. brook_33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 4
    I remember someone speculated that Anakin might fall into the lake of lava, but catch hold of a cliff or something and only his lower half would be in the lava and burn off. Would that have worked?
  6. Darth_Zoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2002
    star 4
    I always thought he'd just fall into lava and not just be laying on a bank of gravel. But it would be wildly unrealistic for him to fall in lava and swim to safety???!!!???
    So the way Lucas did it was good. It was also more graphic than him just falling into lava I think. Seeing a human burst into flames screaming is pretty bad.

  7. Sojourn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2005
    star 2
    I remember, all those years ago, when I first experienced Star Wars, finding out that the reason Darth Vader was wearing his suit was because he had been so badly injured during a fight with Obi-Wan Kenobi. I too remember envisioning it as Anakin falling into a sea of lava -- Obi-Wan and Anakin lightsaber-battling and their fight moved to the edge of a cliff. Obi-Wan then forced Anakin over, and he fell into the lava.

    While this was my own envisioning of the scene, I'm pretty sure that I read about it in one of the original "Illustrated Scrapbook"s, I think they were called. I'll try and find it -- does anyone else have them handy (there was one released for the Rebels (blue cover), one for the Empire (red cover), and one for the entire trilogy (there was only one trilogy at the time :) ). I think it was in the trilogy one, but I'm not positive.)?

    Take care,
    Sojourn
  8. AnakinBrego Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2004
    star 3
    If you fall into lava you die, end of story!
  9. Sojourn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2005
    star 2
    Oh, I know. I meant to add that I often wondered exactly how it was going to shown in a way that was plausible. But that's how my fifth grade mind envisioned it, nonetheless. :)

    Take care,
    Sojourn
  10. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    No not really becasue if he fell all the way in he would be dead. But if you want to look at it this way he did kind of fall into lava. I mean after Obi-wan cut his legs off and arms he fell back down the hill near the lava. Again though that's all if you want to look at it that way.

    I like how they did it. It makes more sense that his legs and arms were cut off then having the lava take them off.
  11. Greedo_forever Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    Yeah, it DOES make more sense the way it was done in the end.

    Even there it was a bit of a stretch (why did the flames extinguish on their own?).

    :)
  12. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Fires go out.

    More specifficly.... a body unless, doused with an
    excelerant, will rarely (if ever) burn to ashes.
    Theres too much raw, moist (for lack of a better term)
    material. Probably the only reason Vader burned that much
    (just from his clothes catching) is because it's very
    difficult to STOP, DROP and ROLL with only one arm.
    :p
  13. AnnLouise Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2005
    star 3
    I can't remember where/when I first read that DV "fell into a lava pit" but that what was the story(reading this thread, it was probably that RS interview, the same one where I cut out the pictures of all the characters, pasted them to cardboard, and made my own 2-d "action figures").
    We debated it during recess - how the heck could you survive THAT? So the film version was plausable by SW terms; seeing the amputated limbs going "plop" into the lava would've been neat.=D=
  14. Sojourn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2005
    star 2
    I found it!

    "Obi-Wan made one last try to save Anakin from the dark side, but Anakin drew his Jedi weapon -- the lightsaber, with its blade of pure energy. Obi-Wan reluctantly raised his lightsaber in defense, and the two battled near a pit of molten lava. During the fight, Skywalker fell into the molten pit. But Anakin Skywalker did not die. He emerged from the pit a scorched shell of a man, full of hatred. In that dark moment, Anakin was transformed."

    -- The Star Wars Trilody Scrapbook: The Galactic Empire. By Mark Cotta Vaz. Page 10.

    Does anybody have the full trilogy edition? That was the more common one, from what I remember -- the two I have (The Galactic Empire and The Rebel Alliance) were a bit rarer, I think.

    Take care,
    Sojourn
  15. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    I was very upset that Anakin didnt fall into the lava; I was hoping the duel would explain all of Anakin's injuries but it didnt. There is a site that discusses Vader's supposed injuries and though she/he never claims her statememnts to be fact they do make alot more sense than what GL gave us. Anakin supposibly fell into lava and broke his neck at some point; but the injuries that he suffered in the movie only explain the burns and why he has a mechanical hand. This unlike the other disappointments of ROTS I can overlook and just rewrite in my head.
  16. Darth_Zoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2002
    star 4
    I guess Lucas could have shown Anakin fall into a lava pit (not the actual lava) and re-emerge later in his chared burned up self with out revealing if he was in lava or just burned from the fire and ash. That's probably what I would have expected as that would have been less graphic.
  17. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    It was perfect. The fact that he lost his limbs was a nice touch, though I would have like to have seen a little more graphic detail added here.

    But when Vader wakes up in the suit, why does he ask about his wife? He should have said something along the lines of "Why am I a robot? Is everything alright down there?".

    And then, he should have said something really cool. I don't know what, but it should have been spine chilling and evil.

    Hopefully Lucas will alter ROTS to make Vader seem cooler and more evil in the suit.

    Or perhaps we could see more details of his rehab. You know, like somebody who has lost the use of their legs attempting to walk again. And then, he could go around with a walking stick for a while perhaps?
  18. Tiershon_Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    Human beings can't survive being incinerated in lava. You'd dissolve like a wax candle in boiling oil.
  19. Lyvia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 2
    Humans also cant go lava surfing without being incinerated or even breath on a lava planet seeing as how we are talking about what humans cant do :rolleyes: Jeeze did you miss how close they were to that lava? That in itself would have caused humans to melt if it wasnt FICTION!
    That part about vader asking something more substantial like wt* happened to me and where are my parts was cool. I can just imagine Vader hearing that breathing for the first time and saying "WTH IS THAT NOISE!!!"
  20. DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2005
    star 3
    Humans also cant go lava surfing without being incinerated or even breath on a lava planet seeing as how we are talking about what humans cant do

    Did you notice that they did not go lava surfing, with their bare feet or just using their shoes? :p Both tried to their best to avoid falling in as well. They knew very well it would be lights out if they fell in. It was to be avoided at all costs.

    The old Story just wouldn't cut it, IMO.

  21. Darth_Sideous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2004
    star 4
    Me, I was happy with the way it was done. Falling into lava SOUNDS cool, but although SW isn't about realism, I'm still glad they did something realistic with it. If he had fallen in, I think to pull it off we would have seen some sort of huge force display to save him. This way just seems more dramatic. I mean, I didn't expect him to lie there and actually catch fire. That's pretty heavy stuff when you think about it. You can kind of imagine what that would feel like.
  22. Greedo_forever Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 3
    Well, what I was getting at, smart aleck, was that why would he stop burning from continuous exposure to such heat? Wouldn't the moisture just evaporate? Raw, wet meat sure dries up if overcooked. And where he was placed, he would have been over cooked.

    But the force works in mysterious ways...
  23. mastersith69 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    no because it would not make sense. if anakin feel right into a lava river and survived the entire audience would instantly be pulled out of the moment and say that is not real or believable. but when he simply gets caught on fire and burns like we see in the movie it more of hit home image because we can relate to that as humans. but the only thing that does not make sense is yes home the fire went out on its own, it would of made more sense to have say a strong gust of wind blow it out and even obiwan do a force gesture to put it out.
  24. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    NO I Like the end result.

    The end scene where Obi has the high ground is poor though, although it makes sense. I really didn't think the sequence was good enough because it's pretty dumb on Anakin's behalf.

    One thing I loved was the emotional limb amputation and dialogue. When he bursts into flames you feel the darkness and pain of the tragic Vader. Great stuff.
  25. Darthsuggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    star 4
    Loved how he struggled to get up the hill. It was absolutely perfect.
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