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Clone Wars Aren't Jedi supposed to be able to read minds? (Season Finale)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Sitara, Mar 2, 2013.

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  1. Sitara

    Sitara Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2001
    So, after the season finale one thing is really bothering me:

    Aren't Jedi supposed to be able to read another's thoughts? If so, what exactly is the purpose of the Trial? Why consider Ashoka guilty?

    WHY NOT JUST READ HER MIND USING THE FORCE TO SEE IF SHE IS GUILTY OR NOT??

    Or did the @#$ Shroud of the Dark Side cloud that as well??
     
  2. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    They already discussed that in the episode, it was the Dark Side that shrouded their vision,
     
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  3. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Sounds like an excuse.
     
    Darth_Zandalor likes this.
  4. The Shadow Emperor

    The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Where did the concept of Jedi mindreading originate?

    If it came from the EU, then don't expect TCW to bother with it.

    If it came from the films, then the "Dark Side clouding everything" excuse works.

    If it came from TCW, then that's just bad writing.
     
  5. PrincessKenobi

    PrincessKenobi New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2000
    I don't think it's something all Jedi can do. And I think that in this case the Jedi knew that even if they did, there was no way they could prove that she wasn't the one without creating more issues for them with the Senate. The galaxy is already in a very fragile state because of the war. They have to be very careful with their choices. Though that shouldn't matter because Barriss was right in her pointing out that they should have never got involved in the war. That anything they did should have been in the sense of peacekeepers nothing more. Because there is no way to know they are picking the right side for the galaxy and making that choice does go against all their teachings.
     
    InterestingLurker likes this.
  6. Sitara

    Sitara Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2001
    Are you kidding me? Ashoka said her vision was clouded and Yoda agreed. They meant foresight. How the heck could the Dark Side cloud the ability of a Jedi to read someone's mind when they are standing right in front of them? If they cannot even read (a willing) someone's mind when they are in front of you, how can they use Force Push? How can they foresee blaster shots and deflect them?

    Am I the only one to see something really, really stupid about this? Did they all just forget the scene in ROTJ when Vader clearly reads Luke's mind and discovers he has a sister? ( this actually has to be it...otherwise the fail of a multi billion dollar studio is too overwhelming)
     
  7. BW2

    BW2 Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2013
    They knew Ahsoka was innocent, but they needed a dumby as sacrifice to please the senate. Mace talked 4 episodes long about PUBLIC OPINION..

    Ahsoka is not stupid. She understood their behaviour. "Oh, Ahsoka, we are sooo sorry. Realy! Lets forget about this and lets bribe you with knighthood, so you can swallow our betrayel better?!"
     
  8. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006

    [​IMG]
     
  9. BW2

    BW2 Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2013
    In Children of the Force they did read Cad Banes Mind. Against his will...

    Council knew that Ahsoka was innocent. Thats what shakes her world.
     
  10. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    They didn't read Bane's mind. They tried to force him to follow their will, but he confessed on his own.

    Where are you getting this idea that the Jedi knew she was innocent? They never make any such claim.
     
  11. BW2

    BW2 Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Vader reading Lukes Thoughts in ROTJ.

    "A Sister?! Obi Wan was wise to hide her from me. But now his failure is complete.."
     
  12. Nubbs

    Nubbs Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2013
    This doesn't bother me too much. Sociopaths (read: murderers) can lie to themselves just as well as they can lie to others, right? Just because Ahsoka was willing to let them read her mind doesn't mean they'll automatically see the real truth, they'll only see the truth as Ahsoka's mind perceives it. She's accused of murdering innocents in a bombing, who cares what she "thinks" really happened? The murder of innocent people is the tactic an insane person (whose mind cannot be trusted obviously) would use. The person running the trial was A SITH LORD! If they could read minds perfectly, they could have ended the war right there.

    I'm far more upset about the fact that Anakin was the only one looking for additional hard evidence to inform such an important decision than I am with the Council's lack of mind reading. Get off your butts and actually do something for once, Jedi Council! (Not you Obi-Wan, you're still cool.)
     
  13. Darth_Zidious

    Darth_Zidious Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2001
    For the same reason Star Trek transporters are always failing: storytelling purposes.
     
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  14. Garrett Atkins

    Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Oh, um, hey Ian McDiarmid. What's happening?
     
  15. Sitara

    Sitara Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2001
    The above is the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith of all time, who is actively cloaking his presence in the Force using undoubtedly super advanced Dark Side Techniques/Powers/Secrets.

    Ashoka is a teenaged Jedi Padawan who would WILLINGLY allow her mind to be read offering NO RESISTANCE whatsoever because she knows she is innocent and wants to prove it.
     
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  16. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    I was simply responding to "How is the Dark side supposed to...?" question. Obviously it can. We don't know, though, that cloaking one's thoughts is all that difficult, especially for someone strong enough to resist it. Cad Bane managed to do it, as did Poggle the Lesser, Nute Gunray, and Luke before he let his "thoughts betray" him. Past material has shown us that a Jedi can't simply close their eyes and probe the mind of a strong-minded individual. They don't have to be Palpatine to accomplish that.
     
    Nubbs likes this.
  17. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Yeah they cannot simply probe the mind of someone resisting.
     
  18. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    They can read emotions. Mind reading kind of violates moral boundaries, usually at least
     
  19. CaptainRex115

    CaptainRex115 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Jedi don't read minds.... they use mind tricks. 100% different. this isn't like star trek you put your hand on someones face and know everything they know..... you can trick other people into saying things/doing things. but you can't read someones mind. idk where you got that idea from but it's not in SW.
     
  20. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    I take it that you haven't seen TPM.
     
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  21. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Didn't they read Banes mind to get information? It is very Star Wars.
     
  22. CaptainRex115

    CaptainRex115 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2013
    no...lmfao....They tried to mind trick him into telling the group where he was keeping the kids. But it did not work. However, afterward bane gave up the location of his hideout so he can escape.
     
    cwustudent likes this.
  23. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Yoda, Mace, and Ki-Adi pretty much demonstrated that they could read minds without using the mind trick. Not to mention novels, comics, ect.

    IIRC that was an issue for that holocron episode. Mace could've read Bane's mind easily. :p
     
    Esg likes this.
  24. LawJedi

    LawJedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2009
    If they were hardcore telepaths, it would make it pointless for them to use wrist communicators. It would make it pointless for Obi-Wan to delay in arresting Jango in AOTC. They're not exactly Charles Xavier level powers.

    Most of the mental communication we experience in the movies in among family members. Luke and Leia. Luke and Vader. Some vague concept of Yoda sensing Luke and others from afar, but never anything concrete.
     
  25. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Not really they might just be short range telepaths. Xavier has at minimum a global telepath range. Long range sensing seems pretty fuzzy and only seems to work when someone make a fairly significant force expenditure. There is a difference though when someone is standing right next to you.
     
    Esg likes this.
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