JCC Arkansas politician claims slavery was "a blessing" for African Americans.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Adam of Nuchtern, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    Attempting to differentiate between beliefs that one's race is superior with beliefs that enable such racist views is semantics. For example, Ron Paul allowing racist printings in his newsletters is no less reprehensible just because he personally doesn't believe in them.
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Another Arkansas politician defends slavery:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/loy-mauch-arkansas-slavery_n_1948717.html





    And yet another Arkansas politicians wants the death penalty to be an option for disobedient children:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...th-penalty-rebellious-children_n_1948490.html

    Last edited by Darth-Ghost, Oct 8, 2012
  3. Juliet316 Chosen One

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  4. VadersLaMent Chosen One

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    Not a good week for Akansas reps.
  5. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Considering the nutjobs you often see in state politics, I'm appalled but not tremendously surprised.
  6. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    A lot of English or Afrikaaner South Africans will tell you that apartheid was a good thing for everyone too.
  7. Darth_wanderguard Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2005
    star 6
    What you mean to say is that holding some misguided views that enable others to be racist is the same as setting minorities on fire?

    I'm not excusing it. I'm just wondering why you're seeing it in such black and white terms. (ha, black and white. Discussion about race)
  8. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    There's a difference between the Ron Paul analogy in that the newsletter represents HIS speech, and not just speech that he allows others to have.


    And Arkansas is fast becoming the new Georgia in my view of representatives.
  9. Darth_wanderguard Force Ghost

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    Apr 26, 2005
    star 6
    I think there's a huge difference. It's easier to change someone's view on a political issue than it is to counteract a genuine, deep seated hatred of other races.

    In order to really understand different aspects and levels of racism and racially motivated opinions or behaviors, you can't take such an all or nothing view. It's akin to radical conservatives throwing around the word "terrorist."

    It's a vehicle for sensationalism, and fanaticism. Rather than just slapping a label on something and deciding its either one end of the spectrum or the other, does it really hurt to put a little open-minded thought into it?
    MrZAP and Valairy Scot like this.
  10. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    Because minorities end facing legally sanctioned discrimination either way? That's sort of a good reason, I should think. What reason do you have for feeling differently?
  11. Darth_wanderguard Force Ghost

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    As I said, I think it's easier to change a political view than a deep-seated hatred of other races. It's like saying the motive of a crime is meaningless because the outcome is the same.

    Again, I'm not justifying or excusing anything. I'm only pointing out that a narrow-minded, black and white view on anything is less than ideal, and certainly not preferable to an actual understanding of how another person thinks.
    Last edited by Darth_wanderguard, Oct 8, 2012
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  12. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    star 8
    We're not trying to understand how they think. Nor are we trying to condemn them as individuals. We are talking about how they would govern. The fact that Thomas Jefferson had qualms about slavery didn't make the denial of his slaves basic human rights any less galling than people who were more comfortable with the system. They were still subject to arbitrary violence, sexual exploitation, denial of wages and inability to make personal choices the same way slaves at surrounding plantations were. Nor, as a policymaker, did Jefferson's supposed reservations keep him from continuing to support policies favorable to pro-slavery advocates.

    So what, exactly, is the point of noting, in an election, that Jefferson wasn't personally as gung-ho about slavery as some others?
  13. Darth_wanderguard Force Ghost

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    I think it indicates an overall mindset of closing yourself off intellectually from an issue when you make a statement like Vivec's. Issues of race are similar to issues of patriotism in that they incite people to feel rather than think.

    For instance, a person on this board once made the argument that Rocky was a bad movie because it was about the "great white hope" taking the title from the black Apollo creed. Anyone who's seen the movie knows that it had nothing to do with that, and in fact the original script included rocky throwing the fight after realizing his trainer was racist.

    The issue there is the person in question was swept up in labeling something as "racist" despite knowing apparently less than nothing about it. It's one of those issues that's deeply emotional, and that's understandable, as it's a serious issue. But deciding you don't need to fully understand something is usually not the best idea.
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  14. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Is the act of setting minorities on fire a belief? I was only talking about beliefs in my post. I don't know how you suddenly threw in actions.
  15. Darth_wanderguard Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2005
    star 6
    I would say it involves the belief that setting minorities on fire is both acceptable and will produce a desired result.
  16. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    May 4, 2003
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    Erm.

    What Vivec said is that it was appropriate to point out that what the guy said was racist, because it was, and that the most private ponderings of his immortal soul on the question of race relations are immaterial to the question of whether what he said was racist. That's true. What you do is what you do. I don't see what issue you are trying to take with this.
  17. Darth_wanderguard Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2005
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    I could be wrong but I believe we were talking about Barry Goldwater, not the crazy Arkansas guy. Did you read the first page?

    The discussion was about Barry Goldwater feeling as though private businesses should be allowe to discriminate if they wanted to, and whether or not that makes him racist or just wrong. I was pointing out that being racist, and opposing state intervention in OTHER people's racism have some differences.
    Last edited by Darth_wanderguard, Oct 8, 2012
  18. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Oh, indeed. Apologies, I'm somewhat tired.

    Still, that requires little alteration to my statement. Vivec pointed out that it was racist to make a major selling point of one's Presidential campaign a willingness to continue Jim Crow in the South. That's just factually true. It is literally supporting racism. How he might have personally felt about black people, in light of this policy decision, is immaterial. What he wanted to do was still racist. African-Americans living in the South wouldn't have been any more free just because he privately thought they were okay people.
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  19. Darth_wanderguard Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2005
    star 6
    I can grant that point to a degree. In the short term it comes out to the same. But I think it's worth noting that a political view is going to be easier to change than a personal hatred of another race.

    I suppose my entire point was that it's easy to get sucked into a black and white all-or-nothing mindset when you feel passionately about something, and I felt that Vivec was better than that.

    It's perfectly possible that's not at all what he was doing anyway, though. *shrugs* I didn't mean to come off as self righteous or anything like that.
    Last edited by Darth_wanderguard, Oct 8, 2012
  20. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

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    I stopped reading at "attacking Lincoln." I mean, there's something you don't hear that often. Outside of John Wilkes Booth's house.
  21. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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    It makes Goldwater a spineless coward, like the ordinary Germans who stood by and let the Nazis kill the Jews.

    Desegregation had to be done. If it were only one, two or three businesses in a city that discriminated, that's maybe fine and the government could leave them alone. But when a massive swath of the population decides to deny services en masse to a particular group, that's essentially a denial of their rights.
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, Oct 9, 2012
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  22. Ghost Chosen One

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  23. Juliet316 Chosen One

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    Wow, way to be a hypocrite and an asswipe, doc.
  24. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

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  25. Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost

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