Around the Arena (Championship Game ... Winner: ApolloSmieGirl)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by DarthIntegral, Apr 23, 2008.

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  1. Trika_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
    As a basketball player myself, I am constantly annoyed with how badly the girls want to play just like the boys. In these two different realms, the strengths behind each game are on totally opposite ends of the spectrum. Sure, guys can dunk... but girls? They play the game at its fundamental level. Guys can play with their physical talent. Girls can play with their brains. Why in the world do we keep encouraging the girls to attempt feats that most are physically incapable of? So, Candace Parker and Lisa Leslie can dunk. Rarities that show they've worked on that particular move, for sure. That means your post players are going to have this idea in the back of their heads that if they want to make an impression on the WNBA crowd [whisper]of five[/whisper], they'll have to dunk in a game.

    Can't we just stick to what makes women's basketball solid and forget the "flash?" Most of it doesn't look flashy, anyway. The current WNBA crowd [whisper]of five[/whisper] doesn't go to women's basketball games because they're expecting to see a dunk. Honestly, having attended a WNBA game, most of the fans are young girls and their families who just love the fundamental game. Women playing basketball are more likely to respect the game's basics, and for fans who appreciate that and are bringing their girls to see it, the dunks are giving them a poor representation of exactly what the women are about. It's not about being like the men. It's a different game. If I want the circus, I'll watch the NBA guys put on a show.

    Besides, now that she's dunked in consecutive games, does that mean that there's going to be a new flood of viewership for WNBA games? Of course not. No deal on this attitude of wanting to be like the guys. Let's keep the women's game the way I grew up appreciating it.
  2. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Not for nothing, because I agree that women shouldn't have to pull off all the tricks that men do in their perspective leagues, but I have to say that women in the WNBA dunking is impressive.

    I don't think that it's a necessity, but it is something will excite a crowd. I'll agree that that's the thing most fans of people don't get about women's basketball though, it is based almost strictly on the fundamentals of the sport. However, I don't think it's fair to necessarily criticize a woman that can achieve a particular move on the floor that most other women can't. Nobody criticized Jordan for being the best player on the floor by a longshot, and dunking from the freethrow line. If you have the ability to do something, flaunt it. You have to admit, a woman dunking a ball is at least ten times more impressive than a man doing it. Most women that play in the league either don't have the height or the jumping ability to pull it off. I'm pretty sure that's why they don't have a women's dunk contest at the all-star game.

    I'm glad you brought up the WNBA Inty, because I think it's a league that is vastly uncovered by the media, and shunned by most fans of the game of basketball. It's a physical, and enduring sport that most people either don't have the interest to watch, or don't want to admit that they like. It's lower scoring because there's a larger emphasis on defense, and not a emphasis on showboating. Doesn't mean it's not a fun game to watch. They give them their uniforms, and a funky coloured ball and expect the women to draw their crowd on their own, with very little promotion. It's annoying enough that most male fans of Basketball laugh at the WNBA, but it's even more annoying when you hear women talk down on it. I'm not saying they have like an obligation to support it, but what kind of message does that send to little girls that are enthusiastic for the sport? Don't do it, because it's a waste of time?

    Also, why does it matter who the crowd is made up of Trika? They still draw crowds. It may not be the demographic the league would prefer to draw, but they still draw a crowd. This "experiment" would have folded years ago, if there weren't people that supported it. Look at something like the XFL, that lasted like what? Two seasons?

    When all is said and done, this league is looked at like the AFL in the states. It's a mildly offshoot of a popular sport. I am glad that the owners have the faith in the future of it though, and I'll continue to support it. Cause anything guys can do, girls can do better........ :p


    Btw, I'd also like to send a shoutout to Mark Cuban. Buy a ****ing WNBA team and place it in Dallas. There's no reason that we shouldn't have one in this market, and an owner like Cuban could bring an awful lot of attention to the sport. Might not be the best kind of attention, but it would certainly draw more attention to the league.
  3. Trika_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
    Just for note, I never downed the nature of the crowd going to WNBA games. I merely pointed out that young girls who attend the games need to see the real focus behind women's basketball instead of merely anticipating a dunk. I went with my high school basketball team and watched the Charlotte Sting play back when Anne Donovan coached them. Did I or my teammates care to see a dunk? No. What about a fight? That usually gets a crowd going, too. No, as aspiring college players, we went to watch exactly what we did every day in practice. Dawn Staley was pretty much my idol at the time. She's my height and has biceps the size of my head. An awesome point guard, Dawn Staley and women like her on the U.S. National Team play their normal game and rock the world consistently. In contrast, the men's side of the house ignores the fact that internationally, basketball is not a street game, and they suffered for it in Athens back in 2004. What does dunking do for women's basketball? It encourages more of that street ball mentality that doesn't stay with the true spirit of women's basketball, and it winds up becoming a detriment on the international stage.

    It's a remarkable feat for a woman to dunk a ball, but for young girls and families who attend the games, anticipating or expecting this sort of thing is likely to end in disappointment. Anticipating good, solid basketball and using one's brain? That's what women's basketball is always about, and a WNBA game or college game is sure to please.
  4. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Oh, I agree with all of that. I'm saying that dunking shouldn't be be a main focus in Women's Basketball, just saying it doesn't hurt the sport as a a whole. Candice Parker could be the potential superstar of the league because of her feats and that has obviously brought some attention to the WNBA. Either way, that's a positive thing.

    Do you remember the "I wanna be like Mike" adds they had for a predominantly male fanbase? Why shouldn't girls be able to have something like that as a role model in the WNBA? If it's based off a dunk, it's not like it's a negative thing.



    ~Edited for spelling~
  5. DarthIntegral Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Fantastic arguments by both ... but I'm a little more swayed by ASG. I think it was the second post of the "Be Like Mike" that got me. So, point, and game, to ApolloSmileGirl.

    Get your face time post, and then we'll go to the championship round.
  6. Trika Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2008
    Congrats, ASG. Well-fought and won. =D=
  7. s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 7
    Congrats, ASG!!!!

    Excellent job ladies!
  8. DarthIntegral Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Yes, that was a very, very good game. Hard to pick a winner, honestly. I went back-and-forth on it a few times.

    BTW, Juli, are you gonna come take your face time?
  9. Trika Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2008
    Paper toss. I demand a paper toss! [face_batting]
  10. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Paper toss would be after the final game, yet to come... and Inty said he'll only do it if the PTI game is ready.

    Which I'm working on, but its on my other computer, currently 7 hours away right now.
  11. Trika_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
  12. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    I'm sorry for not responding earlier.

    Not much happening right now, so I'll concentrate on baseball. How bout them (Devil)Rays? They are the surprise of the year in the American league, and have recently, though maybe only temporally taken first place in MLB. They've also done this in a sport where teams like the Yankees, The Red Sox, the Cubs, and many other teams have may larger bankrolls, and higher paid veteran players.

    It'll be an interesting playoffs, and I think it's fair to say, that baring a complete collapse the Tampa Bay Rays will be participating in it.

    PS, why is it that Florida doesn't care for their sports teams. Everytime I see highlights from a Rays or Marlins home game, there's like 15 people there.
  13. DarthIntegral Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Alright folks. Let's here these introductions where your wit tries to earn you a point (or a mute) before the game starts!.

    From the Boston Globe, we've got Onoto.

    From ESPN.theforce.net, welcome EmpireForever

    From the Denver Post, the always loveable Armenian_Jedi

    And, finally, ApolloSmileGirl, from the Dallas Morning News.
  14. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
  15. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
  16. Trika_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 6
  17. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
  18. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    The torch relay is over for the Olympics today.



    Hopefully Beijing has enough oxygen for it to stay lit for the games.
  19. DarthIntegral Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    (+1) to EmpireForever for the joke about China's air quality.

    Now, let's get this game started.

    <img src="http://www.japan.ea.com/mvp2003/images/logo.jpg">

    July is upon us, and that means it's time to start counting down time until July 31st, and the Major League Baseball Trading Deadline. At least, the one that's easier to understand.

    Surprise teams, such as the Tampa Rays and Minnesota Twins, and disappointment teams, such as the Cleveland Indians and Colorado Rockies, make this an entertaining deadline to watch. Not to mention the Cubs trying to break a hundred-year drought, and the Red Sox and Yankees acting like ... well, the Red Sox and Yankees.

    So, panel of experts, look into your crystal ball, and tell me what's going down this month. What big names are moving. Who are the buyers, who are the sellers? What's the big trade that happens that nobody, except you, sees coming?

    Let's go Around the Arena and get your predictions ...
  20. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    One of the biggest names that I can see moving is one that's been on the periphery of baseball's vision for years: Todd Helton. Let me walk you through my thinking on this.

    Colorado is pretty much out of it this year, and they need to prepare for the future. Helton is a very good player with pretty good marketability, but he's 34 this year and the window of opportunity for Colorado and Helton winning together is pretty much shut. If they can trade him away to a contender for some prospects, both win. The Angels need offense more desperately than any other contender, and first base happens to be one of their less productive positions. Helton's not having a great year and he's never been a slugger, but his excellent on-base skills should aid one of the least productive teams in the American League. This is my proposed deal:

    COL and LAA
    1B Todd Helton for 1B Casey Kotchman, RHP Nick Adenhart, and C Bobby Wilson


    The Angels would get the help they need right now, and Colorado would get three good prospects, two of whom could realistically play from day one, with the other, Adenhart, not far behind.


    Another deal that I like also involves Los Angeles, but this time the Dodgers. The Dodgers are close enough to try for a division title this year, and they need help in the outfield, where their best player, the young Matt Kemp, is decidedly average. I'm thinking Baltimore's Nick Markakis might fit in nicely in exchange for some fine prospects, of which the Dodgers are not in short supply. Here's my idea:

    LAD and BAL
    SS Ivan DeJesus, SS Angel Chavez, and RHP Jonathon Meloan for OF Nick Markakis


    The Dodgers would get an extraordinarily talented outfielder who could turn the tide in their division and relegate a fellow like Juan Pierre to his rightful seat on the bench. The Orioles were unwilling to sign Markakis to a long-term deal, so the organization would probably not be opposed to using him in such a fashion, especially when it'll provide an immediate fix at shortstop, an excellent middle infield prospect, and a quality pitcher whose done well in the minors as both a starter and reliever at fairly young ages. It wouldn't surprise me if the Yankees tried to step in and get Markakis as a replacement for Melky Cabrera or their more elderly outfielders, but LA has better prospects than New York, and it's always tough to swing an in-division trade, especially when it involves your best player.


    I also think Texas will move one of their more well-known players, just as they did last year with Mark Teixeira. Michael Young, the 2006 All-Star Game MVP, is an excellent fielding shortstop with a career batting average over .300, and division-leading Arizona's strength is neither hitting nor shortstop. Young would be a definite upgrade over Drew, and his glove would probably help out their sinkerballing ace. Arizona has several wonderful prospects, some of whom have been blocked by other talented youngsters. Below I list what strikes me as a decent deal for both sides, but there are probably twenty combinations of two or three prospects that I could see offered.

    ARI and TEX
    OF Cyle Hankerd, RHP Connor Robertson, and 1B/3B Jamie D'Antona for SS Michael Young


    Hankerd has shown both power and the ability to hit for average, and his injuries have been at least partially caused by his fluky and anomalously high hit-by-pitch rate. Robertson, the second component of the Haren deal, may only be a reliever, but relievers are more important than ever. He's got a reasonable amount of talent and has been appropriately productive in the minors throughout his entire career, and he's young enough that he hasn't necessarily stagnated. D'Antona was an excellent college player at Wake Forest, and he's been, at worst, very solid in the minors, but he's been buried behind other talented players. He's got excellent arm strength, and could play at either corner position, or even be realistically converted to outfield.


    Ah, here's the big one, and it seems a tad familiar: Mark Teixeria. It's 2007 all over
  21. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    To be honest, it's really to early to even speculate on the trade deadline in any feasible way. In baseball, this deadlines to to the exact, final, last minute.

    Onto, you put up some interesting scenarios, but it's way to soon to get a good feel on who could be up.

    Baltimore, and Toronto are obviously to far out of contention in the AL East.

    Kansas, and Cleveland are done in the AL Central.

    Seattle's been out for almost two months in the AL West.

    Texas, and Detroit have at least a snowball's chance in hell of catching up in their respective divisions, having 70 or so games left in the regular season I guess. Though I certainly wouldn't bet on either of them to make the playoffs, even as a wildcard. That's going to go to the East in the AL.


    Other than Washington, it's anybodies spot to take in the NL West right now.

    Milwaukee and St. Louis could possibly overtake the Cubs in the NL Central, even though that's rather doubtful. Though, again, we do have like 70 games left to play.

    The NL West is the weakest in the league, and it's basically a race to see who can win between The Dodgers and Diamondbacks.


    So, lets so who really needs to have given up at this point.....


    Kansas City
    Cleveland
    Seattle
    Washington
    Houston
    Pittsburgh
    Cincinnati
    San Diego
    Colorado
    San Francisco

    All the other teams are at least within reasonable length of being in contention.

    Look, I know trades are done at deadline point, but it's not like anything blockbuster gets done, on a regular basis, at the trade deadline. I mean, the majority of players that are/i] traded around that time done for prospects, many times foolishly(in hindsight) by the teams that hold those prospects.

    Take Tampa. They'd be nuts to trade any of the team they've built. It's an inexpensive(relatively) roaster, and it be stupid to trade away what would have to be a huge package of contracts to get any decent vet for the longterm.

    As far as Michael Young? There's no way the Rangers will trade him, at least not this year. They made him the face of the team last season and signed him to a lengthy and very expensive contract.

    The bottom line is, it's way to early to even contemplate this question with any sort of certainty, other than plain outright guessing. Any real problem players in baseball have already been put on waivers anyways.

    There's to many factors involved, injury, losing streaks, hitting a tougher part of the season's schedule in that time, any sort of scandals that may be brought up.

    It's just to much to digest at this point, at least for me.

  22. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    I hear what you're saying, and you're probably right, but Bobby Abreu was the undisputed face of the Phillies and still had two and half seasons left on his contract when he was traded to the Yankees in 2006. It's a similar situation with Young, who, at 31, isn't a spring chicken when it comes to shortstops, and whose admittedly considerable ability isn't enough to take the Rangers anywhere significant. It may be enough, though, that Texas could wind up with the players who can.
  23. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Even if the Rangers considered trading him, which I sincerely doubt they would, they'd never get what he's worth via trades, they'd be picking up a ton of dead contracts not feasible and exciting prospects.

    The Rangers expanded his contract for 5 years, and it was an 80,000,000 dollar contract. Cab you possibly think of a team that would try and take that on? I mean, maybe a team like the Yankees, or the Red Sox, but it would still cost either of those clubs dearly to pull off a deal like that.

    Not to mention, Young has a no-trade provision. :p
  24. Onoto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Isn't it one he can wave? Oh, geez. I spend a freakin' eternity figurin' out the prospects that would work and I didn't bother checking the contract of the major cog. Oy vey!

    Texas might try to pull off something similar with Blalock and his expiring contract, though. Philadelphia would almost certainly be intereseted, and they have enough prospects to make a deal happen.

    The Diamondbacks might still get their shortstop if they target Toronto's very productive David Eckstein, who also has the highly coveted playoff experience. (I know I'm safe this time, 'cuz he's actually on the block.) Heck, the Jays could probably swing a deal similar to the one I outlined for Young, maybe minus Robertson.
  25. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Oh, believe me, if the Rangers can possibly unload Blalock on someone, that will be done. His position is more than covered, and as injury prone as he's been the last two years, the Rangers would only benefit from his trade.
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