Around the Arena (Championship Game ... Winner: ApolloSmieGirl)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by DarthIntegral, Apr 23, 2008.

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  1. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Considering his prime age, not-great-but-above-average power statistics, reasonable glove, his position (third base has historically been a difficult position to fill), and relative cheapness, I have to imagine that there'll be a taker.
  2. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Sorry for the double post, but I was just thinking that the Yankees may well target Placido Palonco. The move makes Yankee-sense, as Palonco is a good 32-year-old, and Cano is a bad 25-year-old. The Tigers would likely flip him for two, maybe three good prospects, and while the Yanks don't have the best farm system in the land, they have enough high-profile guys that they could probably make a deal to Detroit's liking.
  3. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    They don't have the best farm system in the land because they don't on single, double, or triple A players nearly as much as they do on spending absurd amounts of money on keeping the luckey prospects that made it to the team, or signing vets.

    I seriously doubt the Tigers would, or at least should take a dumb gamble like that.

    Though, it seems to happen almost every year when it's close top the trade deadline.
  4. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Exactly. I figure the Yanks would absorb his entire contract, flip 'em two pitchers, such as Igawa and Rasner, as well as another AAA prospect, such as Alberto Gonzales. I wouldn't pull the trigger if I was Detroit, but someone's going to come calling and the Yankees have historically been willing to sell the future for someone who's already established. I wouldn't be surprised if Polanco moved, if only because they do need improvements and he's the most valuable guy that they can most realistically part with, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Yankees who snagged him.
  5. EmpireForever Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    Onoto said a lot, but I think one player he missed was C. C. Sabathia. Now, they've said they're not interested, but they're in a five game slide, and they recently lost Schilling, so maybe, just maybe Boston would reconsider that. Their pitching has been sort of meh lately, so they might want to make a move. Philadelphia is looking for anther starter though, and they seem to be the most interested. They have a pretty slim lead in the east, and they probably want to bolster their line up and get a better footing on it.

    Other than that I'm more with Juli. I don't think there will be too much movement, or at least nothing to write home about.
  6. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    I mentioned Sabathia briefly, but I'll address that issue more fully now. I can't see the Sox going after him, as the price will be very comparable to the one they were unwilling to pay for Santana, a far superior pitcher. The Sox would be better off going after someone like Greg Maddux, AJ Burnett, or Joe Blanton, who'd come cheaper and still be useful. (I'd love for my guys to have Maddux, who is one of the all-time greats in my book.)

    The Yankees would probably be interested, but I don't think they'd be wise to try to bring him in when they have guys who could perform well and other holes that need filling, such as second base and centerfield.

    The Phillies are an interesting landing place for Sabathia, and they might make the call and pay that king's ransom I mentioned earlier. I'm not as enamored with their infield as some, but the move would probably leave them in good position to win the East and challenge the Cubs for National League dominancy. It all depends on how much it would deplete their farm system.
  7. DarthIntegral Manager Emeritus and SFTC August Megachamp

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 8
    Haven't forgotten you guys, just been busy ... let's score the arguments and get the second round up ...

    Onoto: Lots of decent info (+2), plenty of fantasy GM trades (+2), and an all-around well-thought-out post (+2)
    ASG: A great breakdown of the market (+3), good info on some of the names that won't be traded (+2), and a good assessment of the overall situation (+2)
    EF: Good way to bring up the biggest fish in Sabathia (+3), and a decent decision ot just say "wait and see" (+2)
    A_J: Someone wake up Armenian_Woody_Paige, please (=1)

    Scoreboard:

    ApolloSmileGirl: 7
    Onoto: 6
    EmpireForever: 5
    Armenian_Jedi: -1

    The Arena keeps rocking next ...
  8. DarthIntegral Manager Emeritus and SFTC August Megachamp

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 8
    <img src="http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0706/ten_g_nadal01_400.jpg" <height=300 width=200>

    An epic match at Wimbledon yesterday, a new champion, and a possible changing of the guard at the top of the tennis world.

    A thrilling match, featuring Roger Federer rallying from losing the first two sets, going into extras in the fifth set, and culminating in Federer's first loss at Wimbledon in six years in the longest match in Wimbledon final history.

    So, I ask this to our panel of experts:

    Does this make Nadal the #1 player in the world?
    Where does this match rank all-time among the greatest tennis matches played?
    Does this do anything to help the overall popularity of tennis?

    Let's go Around the Arena and find out ...
  9. EmpireForever Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8

    This is the fourth time this year Nedal has beaten Federer. How is Federer still ranked #1? I can understand that tennis is not like boxing and you don't get the title just because you beat the champ one time. But four? He has ten + wins over Federer, and three more titles(plus a doubles title). Now, if we were discussing careers, then Federer would obviously be ranked higher, but that's only because he's been playing longer(assuming that Nedal keeps this up, then they'd probably be about even). But shouldn't the ATP be a more current barometer of how players are doing? This year Nadal is better. He's beaten the #1 ranked player on four separate occasions. Yes. He's the #1 player in the world at the moment.


    I'm not going to pretend to know about all of the greatest tennis matches of all-time, but I know that when you have the #1 and #2 ranked players in the world going at it for what was the longest game in Wimbledon history that you have a game going. And the fact that it was so close throughout makes it a great game. It might also be a big part of tennis history as a sort of passing of the torch to the new #1 in Nedal(for however long that lasts. It seems like it could be a while).


    I don't think it helps tennis' popularity much. It was a great game, and tennis fans will be talking about it for a long time. But it was just an exciting tennis match, and it's not like there has never been an exciting tennis match before. It might draw in a few new fans, but I doubt it gains any sort of boom in attendance because of this. Maybe Nedal will gain a bigger base, or something like that, but I don't think that this will make a huge difference overall.
  10. Armenian_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    I'm out of town for a few days and this game moves right past me... blah.


    anyway, I'm already out of the running, so why bother?
  11. DarthIntegral Manager Emeritus and SFTC August Megachamp

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 8
    you're only down 6 points from the cut spot, A_J ... surely with your wit you can make that up!
  12. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    Forgive me if I break the first question down to a level that may appear ludicrous.

    Federer is still a legitimate number one, and not just for his career achievements. Over the last year, he has simply scored more points according to the South African Airways ATP Rankings, with 6600 to Nadal's 6055. Nadal has won more events, but he's also been less consistent than Federer, who has only once in the last year not advanced to at least the Round of 16. That being said, Nadal is probably the best player in the world at this point. The traditional peak age in men's tennis is somewhere in the range of 23-25; Federer's has already passed that and Nadal is almost there. That seems to make Nadal's ascendancy inevitable, and as he's just beaten arguably the greatest player of all time at the great one's best tourney, I think he might already have taken the crown.

    I'm in much the same boat as EmpireForever. I'm not a big tennis fan, but from the research I've done, Federer v. Nadal, Wimbledon 2008 should go down as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, match in history. You have far and away the two best players in the world playing for the championship of the most prestigious tennis tournament. You have the greatest player of all time and his most formidable rival gunning for his spot. You have the longest final in tournament history, with twists and turns and comebacks throughout the whole long affair. But in my mind, what truly makes it a classic is the aftermath. Both men were classy and appreciative of the fans and each other. It's attitudes like that - mutual respect; not necessarily affection, but respect - that help make sporting events timeless.

    I don't think that the match will draw in new fans, as most non-fans will probably say: "Five hours of ping-pong and counting by fifteen. Pass!" What the match will do, though, is increase excitement and passion in the current fanbase. Federer and Nadal have had their Thrilla in Manila, but unlike boxing fans of the 1970s, this rivalry isn't done. There are going to be other battles, and if I was a tennis fan, I'd be extremely excited about the possibilities.
  13. rechedelphar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 6
    Does this do anything to help the overall popularity of tennis?


    If I can just barge in for a minute. Who says that popularity of Tennis is low? The US open has the highest attendance figures for a major and the non major master series events in the US like Cincinatti and Miami draw large crowds. The large amount of coverage that Wimbledon gest on ESPn shows in poluarity. Would ESPN really show 10 hours a day of Tennis if it did not get good ratings? Plus Tennis is a popluar recreation activity
  14. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    rech, while the question may imply that attendance and such is down, all it really is asking is "How does this affect the tennis world?"
  15. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Compare the popularity of tennis to a number of other sports, and it is (and has been) well behind. I think thats what the phrasing meant.
  16. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    It doesn't affect tennis. Nadal had a good year, that's it until he shows the consistency that Federer has in his career. That's about it on the topic of tennis for me. Single season records don't mean anything until you've had a career of consistency like Federer has.

    Federer is still the best male player in the world, and will remain to be so until someone else takes that away from him. One player having one great season doesn't do that in my eyes, and I doubt it does in the mind of many fans of the sport. Nadal having this great season was a great feat, but until he's had as many of them as Federer has had, it's not a groundbreaking change to the sport.
  17. EmpireForever Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    It doesn't matter if Federer's the best ever. The ATP uses a rolling ranking system. At the rate he is going, Nedal will be #1 in no time. Federer's lead was cut in more than half after Wimbledon. I'm not saying Nedal will be the best ever, but by the end of the year I think he'll be ranked #1.
  18. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    It wouldn't surprise me if the current number one managed to squeak it out, though, for at least one more year. Federer's won the US Open four years in a row and Nadal has never gone beyond the Quarterfinals. If Federer wins it again, as is more than likely, the point boost should be enough to keep him in the lead, especially if Nadal doesn't make a title run himself. Nadal is probably the best in the world at this point, but Nadal has collected less than 1/4 of his career win total after Wimbledon, while Federer has won more than 3/8. That bodes well for Roger for the remainder of the year.
  19. EmpireForever Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    That's not really a huge difference, and Nedal is playing a lot better this year. It remains to be seen. It's not like Federer has fallen off, but Nedal is surging.
  20. rechedelphar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 6

    actually if Federer won the US open again his points would stay the same. If he was runner up he would loose points, If Nadal gets anything better than the Quarters he will gain points. Also Fed has more points to defend in Cincinatti and Toronto Masters as does Djokovic.

    But Nadal will be loosing points about 175 points this week because he won Stuttgart last year dn pulled out this week.
  21. Onoto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 5
    I'll concede that it's not a big difference, but I'd argue that every difference is important in a battle as tight as theirs.

    Another difference is this: Federer's career winning percentage on hard courts is 114% of Nadal's, which is quite a substantial gap. Hardcourts are Federer's second-best surface while they are Nadal's worst (save for carpet, on which he has scarcely played). Guess what the large majority of the surfaces are going to be for the rest of the year, including the all-important US Open? Hardcourt. All that tells me that Federer should be able to stave off Nadal and maintain his top spot, especially if this injury Nadal sustained during Wimbledon is at all serious.

    Now, I'm pretty sure Nadal is the best player in the world at this point. I just don't know if he's so much better than Federer that he'll end the year number one when the schedule is tilted Federer's way. 2009 is essentially wrapped up, but 2008 is quite possibly going to stay in Swiss hands.


    Oh, and rech? Hush! You're making me look bad.:p
  22. rechedelphar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 6
    also Hard courts are the best surface for Roddick, Blake and Djokovic. All of them could be threats to Nadal. So Nadal must seriously improve his hard court game to take over #1, this year, but he has a chance because he has less points to defend.

    yeah this discussion should be taken to the ATP thread :p
  23. DarthIntegral Manager Emeritus and SFTC August Megachamp

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 8
    reche, seriously, I don't mind a single but in, but you're going to make it very difficult to follow the game, so if you can cut it, I'd appreciate it.

    I'll score in the morning, so get your final arguments in. A_J ... you're still in this!
  24. Armenian_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    I don't believe you!


    and plus, I'm about to go out of town again this weekend, so I'm prolly gonna be screwed again anyway. :p
  25. DarthIntegral Manager Emeritus and SFTC August Megachamp

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 8
    Quick questions: with A_J throwing in the towel, do you guys just wanna skip past Buy or Sell and eliminate him, or go through all the motions?
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